Sha of Fear and DPS in General

[pureallstar3482]

So, my guild raided last night and I was called out for the first time in my raiding career (since Vanilla) for low DPS. I have 491 Gear and, as Assassination, ShadowCraft has me maxed out at around 82k DPS with my current build. My problem is, I can't even come close to that in boss fights unless they supply a buff.

My rotation is about 90-95% efficient, meaning, I am missing very few cycles and everything is pretty much maintained. I have noticed that, when having to switch targets, my DPS is SEVERELY gimped for at least a handful of seconds. If I have no combo points to swap to the new target, I end up Mutilate > Rupture > Build 5 CP > Re-Rupture (since its about fallen off at that point) > Mut > Envenom to refresh SnD. So, my rotation for a good amount of time is broken when swapping targets. Does that look optimal?

On Sha of Fear, with 491 gear, I was doing between 65-72k DPS....does that sound right? Any help will be awesome. I also use my AP racial, Vendetta, Shadow Blades, and my Trinket on cooldown. I have the upgrade 489 dagger and the 480 Christmas Tree as weapons.

Thanks!

[Haytur]

That was about where I was around 490, maybe a bit higher. 4piece seems to help along with proper daggers. But there is a lot of switching on sha and that hurts dps too

[Deleted]

I had 104.6k two weeks ago on sha normal as assasination with 497 itlvl. Atm i have around 120k dps on sha hc wipes at around 25-30%. itlvl 500

[pureallstar3482]

So then my GM calling me out isn't accurate? I have my 4 piece bonus as well and us SB on cooldown. The only other thing I was wondering. Sometimes I cut it close with rupture, for instance:

I have rupture up and its about to drop. I have 4 CP saved. Instead of refreshing with the 4, I Mutilate to put me at 5, Rupture falls off for no more than 1-2 sec, I then Rupture again. Is it a DPS loss to do it this way as opposed to just reapplying with 4 points? I know it shouldn't matter as I use Anticipation, so I should plan for this, but sometimes it doesn't line up quite right in my planning. For our Sha attempts last night, I was maintaining around an 85-88% up time which included the time that I was cackled and swapping targets for the Spawns.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 08:43 AM ----------

BioEvidence....how are you pulling such high DPS?

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 08:44 AM ----------

I find myself, when cackled, losing a ton of DPS to pick up orbs....how do your guilds handle that with melee. I try to grab one and run back in, but, usually, our ranged aren't very intelligent and I end up having to pick up the slack on orbs.

[Haytur]

I honestly think it also depends on how much mastery you have, cuz if you have the wrong leather gear it can hurt your mastery which is a good dps bonus. But regardless, I never picked up orbs, also refresh Rupture with any combo points it doesnt do a lot of damage we just use it to regen energy so having it drop off is very bad. Refresh sub 2 seconds though so you don't waste a tick or its a dps loss.

[Kael]

I find myself, when cackled, losing a ton of DPS to pick up orbs....how do your guilds handle that with melee. I try to grab one and run back in, but, usually, our ranged aren't very intelligent and I end up having to pick up the slack on orbs.

Your tank and healer and ranged should all be better at doing this - tell them to get better at paying attention, honestly, but if you have to, circle the boss to minimize out-of-melee time. Spending all the energy you get from that should help. Note: rupture on multiple targets is a DPS increase, so swapping to adds won't hurt you, and you *do* get an additional DPS buff from killing the crossbowman when cackled.

If you need help advising the ranged how to DPS on the move, just tell us who you've got and we can give some hackneyed suggestions for how to lose less DPS than a rogue outside melee.

[Sesshou]

With ilvl 491 and 4pc you are certainly low. We'd need a log to really see why. 65-72k dps is definitely really low for that ilvl assuming that is from your own meter and either from a kill or what you had before the wiping started. If that is from some one elses meter that wasn't with you the entire time, then that isn't necessarily a problem. For example, my dps is crap on our logs for Sha because our tank who is logging it spend a lot of time on a different platform than me.

We do the orbs by dividing it into a pieces of a pie with the tank taking a larger piece and the healer running around getting as many as he can. Ideally the tank and healer can get pretty much all of them.

And are you using SC right? ilvl 491 with 4pc should come up higher than 82k. A little while ago at 498 mine was saying something like 105k and I don't see how shadowcraft is saying 7 ilvls is worth ~25% more dps. Also SC doesn't seem to have prepot checked by default, so if you didn't mess with the settings, it is undershooting a tad. Of course maybe you did mess with the settings and unchecked a bunch of buffs you somehow don't have?

@Haytur
Which pieces, so long as he has the 4pc, isn't super important (assuming same ilvl pieces). Mastery is not enough ahead that you are going to see thousands of dps difference like he is.

[Squirl]

A few DPS tips for Sha:

• You can (and should) Cloak Breath of Fear whenever possible
• You should be able to live through Death Blossom with CR and Feint to continue DPSing
• Do not pick up Sha Globes that are far away, but DO grab close ones; they give you extra energy
• Multidot adds with Rupture
• Use ShS and Sprint a lot; there's a lot of movement on this fight
• If you can, line up CDs with the Fearless buff (especially 2nd pot)

Also remember that other people's meters cannot be trusted on this boss. Check your own.

The only DPS check on this fight is the panda platforms. If you're getting back in time, DPS is not the reason you're wiping.

[Sesshou]

You can also evasion + feint the death blossoms.

[Mersynd]

I think the problem is that everyone will have a different result on their damage meters and parsing since you split up throughout the fight. Rogues are not going to play great when swapping a lot at low gear levels. If adds are dying too quickly to make use of your rotation then just have other DPS handle it. Probably the best thing to do is have people either with or without Fearless taking care of the adds. Technically you can do the fight without killing adds if you want, and there is not much healing on the main platform so don't make them too high of a priority. Leave the orbs to the tank and if any DPS or healers are close to them, while staying out of Sprays, they can make good use of them.

[ysoly]

ShadowCraft has me maxed out at around 82k DPS with my current build. My problem is, I can't even come close to that in boss fights unless they supply a buff.
Thanks!

The dps shown by ShadowCraft assumes a Patchwerk like fight. I'v got the same issue, Ilvl 480 and according to Shadowcraft i should be around 78k. So put my character into Simulation craft with a patchwork fight and it gave me the same number. When I put my character in with a heavy movement fight/moderate movement fight the DPS number it shows is closer to what I can actualy achieve.

So unless someone can prove me otherwise I'll keep assuming Shadowcrafts DPS is Patchwerk fight based dps

[Sesshou]

The dps shown by ShadowCraft assumes a Patchwerk like fight. I'v got the same issue, Ilvl 480 and according to Shadowcraft i should be around 78k. So put my character into Simulation craft with a patchwork fight and it gave me the same number. When I put my character in with a heavy movement fight/moderate movement fight the DPS number it shows is closer to what I can actualy achieve.

So unless someone can prove me otherwise I'll keep assuming Shadowcrafts DPS is Patchwerk fight based dps

Shadowcraft absolutely does assume that, so no it is not a good model for predicting dps on just any fight. Something like Feng though or Garajeel (if you aren't going inside) should be really close.

Either way, he is really low. I just plugged in one of our rogues that came back from a 2 month break and his ilvl is 491 just like the op and if I switch his budget enchant to dancing steel, SC has him at 92,867 dps, 93,947 with prepot, and if I leave him with his elemental force on his OH 483 dagger without a prepot it is 91,470. He also does NOT have 4pc.

The OP has his 4pc so SC should at least give him 90k (probably more like a bit over 92k without the prepot, but I'll be conservative with my guess)if he is gemmed and enchanted at 491 ilvl. So the OP isn't undershooting by ~10k but closer to 20k or assuming his upper bound of 72k, 25% under which is way more dps than he should really be losing due to mechanics on that.

Btw, don't forget that while Sha does have movement and target switches, you do get a nice buff to help counter that.

[Elbrondane]

Letting Rupture fall is a bad thing. Rupture is one of your biggest damaging abilities because of the Venemous Wounds, not the bleed itself. That could be one of the main reasons why you aren't where you "should" be.

[Saegno]

I'm curious how SC has you at 82k at 491 Ilvl when I am at 488 Ilvl and SC has me at 92k(92414.7 to be exact) without 4pc(3pc all LFR).
It sounds like to me that you have made some poor gear, gemming, reforging choices. An armory would help clear up any of those issues not covered by mechanics or rotation.

[Sesshou]

I'm curious how SC has you at 82k at 491 Ilvl when I am at 488 Ilvl and SC has me at 92k(92414.7 to be exact) without 4pc(3pc all LFR).
It sounds like to me that you have made some poor gear, gemming, reforging choices. An armory would help clear up any of those issues not covered by mechanics or rotation.

Yeah, exactly. A couple of the people here are reporting rather low numbers for their ilvl which makes me think either they messed with the settings or they aren't gemmed and enchanted properly or something.

[Triscone]

491 with a blue weapon versus 491 with a heroic seven stars and normal spiritsever oh with gem can give drastically different numbers. Ilvl is a decent estimation but there are other factors to be considered.

[Squirl]

If OP could post his armory or even logs, that would solve a lot of the debate in this thread.

[Kael]

If OP could post his armory or even logs, that would solve a lot of the debate in this thread.

Squirl's completely right; there's really nothing else at all we can tell you without more information, OP.

[Shaley]

Around 12-20, I posted a log on Sha that was 86th percentile. Around that time, I was around ilvl 493 I believe. That 86th percentile was 85k DPS. Your raid leader probably thinks that rogues should be 114k DPS because he looks at raidbots and doesn't consider that those normal mode kills on Sha are including people with ilvl 500+ right now.

It's all in the gear, mate. Respectfully ask him to let you do your thing, or show him this thread. Thought as a raid leader he should know what classes scale differently with gear, and what is acceptable DPS for certain classes/specs in individual fights.

Edit: Just saw 65k, my brain saw that as 85k for some reason. Back when my parse for that ilvl was taken, 65k was considered the 50th percentile. Not terrible, but not great. Your damage will go up vastly as you become more familiar with the fight.

When we were learning the fight, I saved Vendetta/SB for the panda, always. Glyphed Feint and Cloak of Shadows let you eat the entire death blossom with no problem. If you can get a 5pt Rupture on Sha before you switch to adds, do it.

[Kael]

Around 12-20, I posted a log on Sha that was 86th percentile. Around that time, I was around ilvl 493 I believe. That 86th percentile was 85k DPS. Your raid leader probably thinks that rogues should be 114k DPS because he looks at raidbots and doesn't consider that those normal mode kills on Sha are including people with ilvl 500+ right now.

Edit: Just saw 65k, my brain saw that as 85k for some reason. Back when my parse for that ilvl was taken, 65k was considered the 50th percentile. Not terrible, but not great. Your damage will go up vastly as you become more familiar with the fight.

A note on percentiles from raidbots; raidbots uses WoL reports, and those reports are not all from the rogue PoV, so actual rogue mean/median are WELL higher than what is being reported. 86th percentile listing was not 86th percentile, and unless the person logging for your raid was with you when you swapped platforms each time and didn't swap when you didn't, you did more damage than the combat log recorded for you.

The same occurs on Gara'jal and other "phased" encounters.