MoP: Destruction Warlock Guide and First Week Gear List

[Hatelocker]

I would think with the nerf to GoSac in 5.2 that in both single target and heavy AoE fights (read any fight where you don't use havoc basically) that the optimal choice would be to use GoSup. GoSac doesn't buff our AoE and in 5.1 on a purely single target fight a haste heavy build with GoSup was extremely close to a GoSac build with full mastery. I have no math to back this up but my current guessing is that on single target and AoE fights we will use GoSup and only on cleave fights will GoSac obviously be the best choice.

[Brusalk]

hmm, with the upcoming buffs to conflag/immo/incin i'm wonder how a crit>mastery>haste build would run with the set bonuses from t15. Mostly just armchair theorising at the moment though, since i fail at math too much to be able to actually sim numbers :P

Anyways my reasoning is as follows:
- Set bonus gives extra emberbits for incin crits, and immo crits have always given emberbits.
- Buff to our non-ember spells possibly making crit more attractive (and chaos bolt gains extra deeps from crit anyways)
- In theory we'd have slightly lighter hitting CB/SB, but more embergen due to the critting so therefore more embers to pump CB/SB out.
- Might also in theory give a little more leeway with grimoire choice without major reforging since our pets at least scale with our crit, so maybe some GoSup use for non-cleave fights

Ofc its all just guestimating at the moment, since i have no idea what our crit and other stats will be like during t15 content and i absolutely fail at simming stuff. Mostly threw this out as food for thought

I'll start this by going over what's happening to Destro in 5.3 as far as I remember:

Sacrifice nerfed by 5/10%.
Immo/Conflag buffed by 20%.
Incinerate buffed by 10%.
AoE range of FnB'd spells reduced to 10yards baseline down from 15.


In terms of single target these changes have 2 effects. The changes purely buff our generating spells and don't really do anything to our consumers in specific. I'm thinking that Sup/Serv with Haste>Crit>Mastery is going to be the go-to for single target (and be significantly better than sac), while if we can cleave a bit of the time Sac might pull ahead. My reasoning being that the buffs to generators means that shifting our damage further onto our generators means we make more of the buffs. (Kind of a feedback loop)

As for the set-bonuses:

2 pieces: While Dark Soul is active, Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn consume 20% less Embers.
4 pieces: Your Incinerate has a 8% chance to generate twice the normal Embers.

The set bonuses also serve to only increase the value of generating more embers faster over spending them slower. With the 2pc, if we can generate more embers during dark soul then we can get more out of the set bonus by getting more bolts and burns off during the duration. With the 4pc, the more we cast Incinerate not only the more we'll generate base, but the more embers we'll generate from the 4pc.

I'm really excited for the destro buffs, but as a side effect I'm pretty angry that I'll have to buy myself a reforge-mount so I can reforge for single-target and cleave fights.

[xskarma]

I'm really excited for the destro buffs, but as a side effect I'm pretty angry that I'll have to buy myself a reforge-mount so I can reforge for single-target and cleave fights.

This is what is keeping me from possibly trying Destro as main spec. I don't have the patience or will to reforge 3 times a day, with varying reforges when gear pieces get changed. So my solution would always be to pick one reforge and stick to it, through the possibly sub optimal times. But I'd hate that, so I seriously doubt I'd get myself to do it. I'll probably just go for the usual haste/mastery build Affli and see which spec performs better in that as an off spec, Demo or Destro (probably in Sup spec then).

[Aruotnof]

I had the same problem... In single targets fights when affliction perform better than destro, was hard to change...

But with Brusalk´s and Zumzum´s tips, I gave a real chance for destro and trained hard to master the spec and now, I practically get the same results with destro compared with affliction (No single target fights).

I really enjoyed playing with this spec, although demo is still my favorite spec.

Now, I have 2 sets... One with Haste>Mastery>Crit and other with Mastery>Crit>Haste.

Thanks.

[Medieve]

With the amount of native crit on gear, I find it hard to believe that a 2 target mastery build won't be negligible difference at best from a crit/haste build.

[happyzod]

I'm making an updated written guide for 5.3. I was originally going to make one for 5.2 but between life and the close release of 5.3 I decided to make one for 5.3 instead, rather than having to update it again in 3 weeks when 5.3 comes out.

Really appreciate your guide Brusalk. I think someone should contact the OP and ask him to post at least your video guide on the front page. It was really helpful for me in improving my dps from decent to amazing.

[Lasombria]

I know I'm going to feel like a noob as soon as I see the answer, but...

What are the haste thresholds I should keep in mind when messing around with a haste/crit/mastery reforge to go with Grimoire of Supremacy?

[Kirroth]

What are the haste thresholds I should keep in mind when messing around with a haste/crit/mastery reforge to go with Grimoire of Supremacy?

AFAIK there aren't any. It's not like when extra ticks off Immolate multiplied Conflag's damage massively. More haste means more spells cast which means more Embers generated. More haste means your pet attacks faster. More haste means you regen mana faster. There aren't points where the effect suddenly jumps then flattens out.

[Lasombria]

Thank you, Kirroth!

[Scathbais]

So we are starting Heroic Lei Shi tonight and I am one of the SF stackers. Any advice for playing this fight as destro?
Should I be using burning rush during Keep Away?
What is your keep away rotation? I was thinking Conflagx2, CB, CB, CB to help get through the phase faster.

Would a haste build with GSup work better than Mastery/Sac build?

[Woz]

So we are starting Heroic Lei Shi tonight and I am one of the SF stackers. Any advice for playing this fight as destro?
Should I be using burning rush during Keep Away?
What is your keep away rotation? I was thinking Conflagx2, CB, CB, CB to help get through the phase faster.

Would a haste build with GSup work better than Mastery/Sac build?

If you're one of the people doing the stacks don't use Burning Rush; as is you'll be needing more healing than the rest and you can run against the current without it just fine.
You can probably do Conflag as many times as you are able to and cast a couple of Incins (can stand still and get pushed back for a cast and not take super huge damage); but otherwise you just Fel Flame - sounds dumb but you really rely on Hunters/Melee/People with good on the move DPS that doesn't hinder your movement (so don't take KJC, I would personally recommend taking MF so you can RoF an entire section of the platform with 1 cast).

[Scathbais]

If you're one of the people doing the stacks don't use Burning Rush; as is you'll be needing more healing than the rest and you can run against the current without it just fine.
You can probably do Conflag as many times as you are able to and cast a couple of Incins (can stand still and get pushed back for a cast and not take super huge damage); but otherwise you just Fel Flame - sounds dumb but you really rely on Hunters/Melee/People with good on the move DPS that doesn't hinder your movement (so don't take KJC, I would personally recommend taking MF so you can RoF an entire section of the platform with 1 cast).

Thanks Woz. Sound advice and worked well last night. We got her down to 40% but ran out of time. She will definitely go down tomorrow.

Here is how I applied your advice: When it was my turn to apply SF to Lei Shi, I just used conflag and fel flame (which also kept incin up). When I wasn't applying the buff, I would run close to the boss and then let her push me back as I casted a 1.6mm damage chaos bolt (the blood dk was up to 20 stacks at this point).

Thanks again for the help

[Bloodfire]

Any new tips concerning recent fkin idiotic nerfs?
And I'm having an argument with 1 lock on my serv, he says that's it's better to stack crit either then mastery so that ember generation will be faster then it is.
Is he right?

[Brusalk]

Any new tips concerning recent fkin idiotic nerfs?
And I'm having an argument with 1 lock on my serv, he says that's it's better to stack crit either then mastery so that ember generation will be faster then it is.
Is he right?

New tips? Not really. Sac priority is still the same, but on single target you should go observer with haste=mastery>crit.

Also the lock is wrong. You want mastery if you're sac specced, or haste if you're pet specced. Crit is always 2nd priority in 5.1.

[Aswadd]

I wanna go back to 5.2 changes.

Our destro guild lock is arguing that despite all the buffs destro locks are getting in 5.2, destro locks will still lose on damage compared to other specs due to the nerf on Sac. He says, and I quote: "Destro locks are gonna lose their niche with that nerf".

He was mostly refering to multiple targets fights, but he did make that statement in general.

Any ideas what's he on about?

[Brusalk]

I wanna go back to 5.2 changes.

Our destro guild lock is arguing that despite all the buffs destro locks are getting in 5.2, destro locks will still lose on damage compared to other specs due to the nerf on Sac. He says, and I quote: "Destro locks are gonna lose their niche with that nerf".

He was mostly refering to multiple targets fights, but he did make that statement in general.

Any ideas what's he on about?

The only thing that destro is/was better than demo/aff at was 2 target cleave and add fights where we could cleave shadowburns and get +1 embers per shadowburn killing blow. Part of the reason we even had this niche to begin with was because sacrifice buffed the damage of havoc'd abilities. In 5.2 they've nerfed sacrifice significantly so both those roles are now worse than before. They've also nerfed the range on FnB to 10 yards from 15, so the only other thing destro was great at is now worse.

That in itself isn't all that bad, however there has been no compensation for those nerfs. They've buffed our single target generators which helps on single target, but compared to 5.1, 5.2 Destro's AoE and cleave damage has been nerfed.


That's what he means by Destro losing it's niche, and it's true. Destro doesn't have anything that it's better at anymore, and when a spec doesn't have something it's better at then other specs, why would you ever play it for serious progression?

[Kirroth]

That's what he means by Destro losing it's niche, and it's true. Destro doesn't have anything that it's better at anymore, and when a spec doesn't have something it's better at then other specs, why would you ever play it for serious progression?

Here's a fun game. Try to get three different people to agree on a standard for what "serious progression" is. Then ask them where the line is that separates it from raiding casually enough that you can play what you want without needing a particular niche that you're The Best in.

No slight intended for you, Brusalk. It's just that I'm actually in favor of Destro being more generally solid while losing the gimmick edge on cleave and add fights. For the purposes of the level I play at, there's very little downside.

[Scathbais]

That in itself isn't all that bad, however there has been no compensation for those nerfs. They've buffed our single target generators which helps on single target, but compared to 5.1, 5.2 Destro's AoE and cleave damage has been nerfed.

Destro AOE was not better just because of the range advantage, although that helped on several fights (like Gara'jal). All of our FnB spells have been buffed (conflag, incin, immolate) plus the max targets where damage caps out has increased to 20. we should still be able to put out superior AOE, with better range than any other class due to Mannoroth. Don't lose heart just yet.

Also, with my gear level ilvl 500 and with reforged for Demo (Scathbais@mal'ganis) I am seeing Crit as the best secondary for Destro using the lastest simcraft+ptr. Not sure what ilvl haste becomes better, but I am not there yet.

[Ezzyo]

Destro AOE was not better just because of the range advantage, although that helped on several fights (like Gara'jal). All of our FnB spells have been buffed (conflag, incin, immolate) plus the max targets where damage caps out has increased to 20. we should still be able to put out superior AOE, with better range than any other class due to Mannoroth. Don't lose heart just yet.

Also, with my gear level ilvl 500 and with reforged for Demo (Scathbais@mal'ganis) I am seeing Crit as the best secondary for Destro using the lastest simcraft+ptr. Not sure what ilvl haste becomes better, but I am not there yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't crit always been the best secondary for destro? Mastery being first with sac, haste with sup?

[weakdots]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't crit always been the best secondary for destro? Mastery being first with sac, haste with sup?

mastery crit and haste are all secondary stats. int,agi,str are primary