Patch 5.3 PTR. Attonement Nerf

[Cairhiin]

Even if Blizzard nerfed Smite Damage AND Atonement Healing Priests couldn't complain... Disc Priests are simply too strong right now, doing HPS like a Holypaladin while also pushing 40-50k DPS was simply too much.
Didn't Blizzard say they want DPSing Discpriests/Fistweaving monks doing 50% DPS and 50% Healing while a Holypaladin is 100% Healing and 0% DPS for example?
Even after the nerf its something like 50% DPS and 90% Healing for Priests.

Exactly this. I heal with a Disc Priest, she does near enough the same HPS as I do while also doing 45-50k DPS. How is that fair to other healers? Surely even Disc priests can see there's a problem with that? Or you think that my 1500 DPS from Holy Prism is comparable?

[Deleted]

The thing is, I think most discs CAN see the problem, but rather than nerfing our healing I personally hoped they'd nerf the dps. Which is why many now QQ.
Not that I think we'll have issues with the 20% nerf, atonement usually accounts for <20% of my healing (take/leave the DA from it) so a -20% cut from it will hardly makes us any less capable of being competent.

Again, it's not that atonement was balanced, it's just that it got nerfed from the wrong end.

[juicyxo]

Even if Blizzard nerfed Smite Damage AND Atonement Healing Priests couldn't complain... Disc Priests are simply too strong right now, doing HPS like a Holypaladin while also pushing 40-50k DPS was simply too much.
Didn't Blizzard say they want DPSing Discpriests/Fistweaving monks doing 50% DPS and 50% Healing while a Holypaladin is 100% Healing and 0% DPS for example?
Even after the nerf its something like 50% DPS and 90% Healing for Priests.

yeah paladins offer a lot of raid utility like double sacs bops am their personal cds we offer the ability to dps decently a barrier and crappy ss.

[Deleted]

Didn't Blizzard say they want DPSing Discpriests/Fistweaving monks doing 50% DPS and 50% Healing while a Holypaladin is 100% Healing and 0% DPS for example?

That was the quote to explain monk DPS mana costs. The first thing I thought then "hey wtf with disc priest?!" There is no balance between dps and heal on disc. It's ok to do dps and smart heal, but not with this numbers. I expect more nerfs, especially with "increase damage taken"-mechanics and attonement.

compare to monks - 40% of healing done by ranking monk is renewing mist - noone cries.
or to ranking paladins, 30% of healing is their mastery - noone has a problem with it.

The damage is the difference. Pushing for 40k dps while doing good healing is overpowered. If boss have some nice "damage taken increase by 200%" mechanics, this becomes evil. It's interesting people can't understand the point of view of other healers.

[Deleted]

There is a lot of perspective here from people who are well progressed and are likely in super optimized groups. As someone who lacks the luxury of either of these, I can attest that, at least during ToT normal progress, I am using a lot of direct heals, especially on fights which are still being learnt and at times I would adore an actually acceptable AoE heal but instead Atonement is all that we have which can muster some output which mimics this. While it is all very nice to consider the impact of these changes upon the top end, that isn't the majority of the player base and a nerf such as this will have a trickle down effect on groups which are still trying to get anywhere.

[Deleted]

It's interesting people can't understand the point of view of other healers.

Sigh. Let's try this again.

The thing is, I think most discs CAN see the problem, but rather than nerfing our healing I personally hoped they'd nerf the dps. Which is why many now QQ.

Again, it's not that atonement was balanced, it's just that it got nerfed from the wrong end.

I seriously doubt a single disc would QQ if our damage output was halfed. The idiotism begins where the dps stays the same but they gradually reduce the healing "as we do too much dmg". Well the hell Blizz, why don't you cut the bloody dmg then.

[ajohnson1]

lots of QQ for a PTR change that will likely be reverted.

[Deleted]

That was the quote to explain monk DPS mana costs. The first thing I thought then "hey wtf with disc priest?!" There is no balance between dps and heal on disc. It's ok to do dps and smart heal, but not with this numbers. I expect more nerfs, especially with "increase damage taken"-mechanics and attonement.

Currently, Discipline doesn't really have a decent alternative to Atonement healing. Remove Atonement and you are left with a healer that keeps Penance on a tank, casts greater heal and PoM, throws in PW:S as mana allows and spends a lot of time hanging around twiddling their thumbs while regenerating mana. Are monks viable and interesting without Fistweaving? Please not, in no way am I insinuating that Atonement on its merits is interesting - it isn't. Just as PoH spamming and RJ blanketing is equally boring. Part of what makes Disc enjoyable is knowing when you can heal through Atonement. This would be even more interesting and enjoyable if there was a decent AoE heal we could throw out every now and then.

EDIT:

The idea that the Atonement nerf got the wrong end is definitely interesting. The complaint would then be that Discipline wouldn't be good for questing and PvP if the DPS were to be reduced. Would this be an acceptable change?

[Deleted]

Am I the only disc who specs Shadow for questing?

Tho fair enough nowadays one wouldn't have to. But as we're comparing to other classes as it seems to be the theme of the day: one could argue holy paladins or resto druids can't push all that high dps during questing either, why is disc the designated healer who NEEDS to be able to do mighty dps for questing? Especially if it comes at the price of reduced healing (and no, I still dont think the nerf is unreasonable).

And to be fair I've got no clue what stage disc is at from a pvp PoV so not sure how big of a blow reduced dmg would be, if the healing staid the same?

[Deleted]

Currently, Discipline doesn't really have a decent alternative to Atonement healing. Remove Atonement and you are left with a healer that keeps Penance on a tank, casts greater heal and PoM, throws in PW:S as mana allows and spends a lot of time hanging around twiddling their thumbs while regenerating mana. Are monks viable and interesting without Fistweaving? Please not, in no way am I insinuating that Atonement on its merits is interesting - it isn't. Just as PoH spamming and RJ blanketing is equally boring. Part of what makes Disc enjoyable is knowing when you can heal through Atonement. This would be even more interesting and enjoyable if there was a decent AoE heal we could throw out every now and then.

EDIT:

The idea that the Atonement nerf got the wrong end is definitely interesting. The complaint would then be that Discipline wouldn't be good for questing and PvP if the DPS were to be reduced. Would this be an acceptable change?

AGAIN: attonement is NOT a problem, the DAMAGE is the problem. Nerf disc damage output by half and buff attonement by half, no problem.

[Deleted]

Woah, this dude really doesn't read

[lizon]

I hope people understand that this change is slated for 5.3. That's in another 1-2 months. So let us take an additional 1-2 months of gear worth of stats boosting our atonement numbers and THEN minus the 20% healing from it. It should break around even if not still be slightly higher than now.

[ajohnson1]

I hope people understand that this change is slated for 5.3. That's in another 1-2 months. So let us take an additional 1-2 months of gear worth of stats boosting our atonement numbers and THEN minus the 20% healing from it. It should break around even if not still be slightly higher than now.

let me get this straight. everybody gears up and increases healing throughput. then when 5.3 hits, priests are knocked back by 20%. but that's okay because we broke even with early 5.2 throughput? nice logic...

[Deleted]

We're barely getting knocked back 4% if you utilize other spells "properly" on most fights.
And as someone said, wouldn't be the first time Blizz whacks a change that never goes live / is changed a few times yet before going live.
And furthermore, even if it did go live as it is, it'd be pretty justified.

[Dorfie]

I just thought, if I didn't atonement then what the hell would I cast to top up mild raid damage? I throw lots of PW:S already, but if I had to keep people topped I'd probably just let our Monk do it with his renewing mists and uplift on everyone. I still see myself using atonement just as much as I do currently. It'll still be good for adding 50k raid DPS and handling mild damage phases, you'll just have to swap to PW:S/cascade/PoH earlier instead of just pushing through it with atonement.

Off-topic, please for the love of god buff PoH to 40 yard radius. I hate seeing everyone in my group within 40 yard range of myself, casting a PoH on myself and then missing 2-3 people. Its unhealthy how mad it makes me.

[Deleted]

If I wanted to Heal using healing spells. I would fucking spec Holy.

Well this blows, I spent the last 3 weeks gearing my Attonement Disc priest because I love the way it plays and now it is going to go down by 20 fucking %

G fucking G.

Back to Tanking/DPS for me since all other healers are lame and boring.

Yes, spamming 3 abilities was a thrilling and joyful rotation for dps and healing. Sadly tanking requires a brain which..... mhm

The nerf isn't that hard, but good luck in your new chosen role.

[HPLathus]

It's called prayer of healing people....

What's this nonsense about not having a heal for mild raid damage... 20% is not going to be as noticeable as you are all making it out to be.


You all act as if we have 0 spells outside of atonement. Reading this you would think the world is ending >.>

[Dorfie]

It's called prayer of healing people....

What's this nonsense about not having a heal for mild raid damage... 20% is not going to be as noticeable as you are all making it out to be.


You all act as if we have 0 spells outside of atonement. Reading this you would think the world is ending >.>

Which I why I said it'd be nice if it was 40 yards. Spell just feels an expansion old.

[Irielle]

To put it simply if they put the 20% nerf in they need to compensate us elsewhere. Its poor game design that we are spamming atonement but Blizzard never seems to be able to make up their mind with us.

[babylon]

compare to monks - 40% of healing done by ranking monk is renewing mist - noone cries.
or to ranking paladins, 30% of healing is their mastery - noone has a problem with it.

The damage is the difference. Pushing for 40k dps while doing good healing is overpowered. If boss have some nice "damage taken increase by 200%" mechanics, this becomes evil. It's interesting people can't understand the point of view of other healers.

But it is not the damage that got nerfed is it? I am a healer and I addressed healing, as I noticed that healing mechanics are being criticized.
I pointed out that in heroic raids discipline priests have to think, cannot just blindly spam and that our spam is nothing compared to other classes - at least we have to spam whole 3 buttons for 30% of our healing. so why it is us being told for spam?

I did not even take a part in a damage discussion.
It's interesting people cannot focus on the main meanings of the posts.