To all those druids that wanted DoC to change..

[Braindwen]

Guardian = The soloing talent of choice

Lolwut?

A DPS nerf to get similar or less healing than we're already getting from NV?

Consider it a replacement NS, except in the lvl90 tier instead of lvl30.

[datshifty]

Well, that's just about the dumbest change they could have made to Feral DoC. I seriously wonder if these class designers/balancers even play the damn game. That not only just removed about 50% of the skill with the spec, but probably a huge chunk of damage too. Now instead of getting 25% Rips and often times 25% Rakes, we only get 15% Rips? Sounds like a joke to me.

[exochaft]

On the plus side, Blizz does recognize that DoC needs a change. While I think the resto portion (Wrath damage going Atonement-style) is likely the most solid portion at this time, everything else is a step in the right direction.

The Guardian version still has some questions in my eyes, more specifically how long the proc would last, how the spells cast interact with our GCD, ICD if any, etc. Along with the new lvl 30 talent presented (Ysera's Gift), it seems like Nature's Swiftness may cease to be a talent and only be available for resto (as some data-mined info suggests), since its functionality is basically what the Guardian version of DoC is trying to be. The plus side to this talent in its current form is that it allows the Guardian to potentially "store" a charge of instant healing/combat rez to be used when necessary, and assuming there isn't an ICD on the ability, the proc chance should be decently high with our crit levels. However, since there is randomness involved, I'd fear the general use would be to sit on charges for emergencies instead of spending them as they proc. As is, I don't see it being stronger than NV or HotW in terms of on-demand usage, unless Blizz is designing DoC for Guardians to be a charge that sits until needed. Also, there is no damage component, while HotW and NV both provide a potential DPS increase.

I don't really want to delve into DoC for Ferals too much, because I may rub some kitty's fur the wrong way. However, I will say that a change was coming whether we wanted it or not, and I believe the DoC change is a step in the right direction in terms of what Blizz wants the talents to be... but it's likely still under-tuned from what data-mining tells us. Besides, if Nature's Swiftness truly becomes resto-only, the live version of DoC gets a bit clunkier. And along that same lines...

Moonkin DoC still seems clunky in my view, perhaps long-time moonkins may disagree. At least for Guardian and Feral, the use of Healing Touch makes more sense and is more fluid. In my view, it falls into the same trap that Blizz is likely trying to change with the current version of DoC for feral: using Healing Touch less for actually healing and more for just damage. Again, if Nature's Swiftness becomes resto-only, having a moonkin hard-cast Healing Touch not because a heal is necessary is just downright silly.

Resto DoC is the only version I'm completely fine with, as long as it doesn't having some silly scaling issues. Basically, core concept is really solid.

[Avutu]

NO NO NO why do that to ferals blizzard ;_____;

God I hope they reverse the change, no point at all. Sigh

[Deleted]

Bye bye Feral.. It was wonderful with you... Reroll Mage inc

[vlobben]

Datamined changes are damamined, but why would they even consider changing what makes feral interesting into a nobrainer talent that takes all elements of fun out of it?

[Deleted]

/quote Vlobben! DoC playstyle is the funniest over all classes/spec in this game. Make it a 3-buttons class is depressing

[Tinderhoof]

/quote Vlobben! DoC playstyle is the funniest over all classes/spec in this game. Make it a 3-buttons class is depressing

You do realize that they released the official PTR notes right? It's no longer datamined, it's confirmed as happening. Exact quote from the official notes:

Talents
•Dream of Cenarius has been completely redesigned to reduce complexity and increase usability, but maintain the spirit of the effects. Benefits now varies by specialization.

That last little bit kinda pisses me off.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...Soon-6_11_2013

[vlobben]

You do realize that they released the official PTR notes right? It's no longer datamined, it's confirmed as happening.

I think you meant to quote me, and I should have written "PTR changes" instead of "Datamined changes". Everything on PTR is still subject to change, so I still have a small hope this change won't make it live.

[Deleted]

Tinder i think Emerald Dream will replace Dream of Cenarius. And playstyle you use atm will be replace by a new playstyle.
Go on mainpage on MmoChamp, read and see patchnotes. If Blizz want make DoC playstyle easier it's sure they change it.
I hope i'm wrong obv

[Deleted]

While I enjoy the utility aspect of HotW (heal/tank/range dps/massive AOE) this is really going to remove a lot fun playing feral. I wonder if this comes from DoC+RoR Rip and Rake being too good.

[Deleted]

I like the changes, thank you, blizzard.
WOL top ranked feral.

[Friednug]

Just so I can try to keep an open mind and see the silver lining here, Vasek please explain how the changes to DoC are going to be a good thing for feral.

If the argument is that alot of feral picked DoC because it provided superior numbers when played correctly, they will most likely just swap over to HotW now as I see it being the top dps talent. And the removal of NS was just a kick in the teeth to affirm that.

If the argument is that DoC was too complex, that is what made it a good choice for those of us looking to spice up the playstyle a little bit. There are other ways I see that would make it easier for the masses I guess, without gutting the talent as it is. Perhaps they could let it only consume on rip or rake with 1 charge. Perhaps 2 charges.

The 10% loss of damage increase can be justified. But, I think they went overboard. I think they implemented RoR without honestly thinking it out and are now reeling trying to figure out how to fix the problem. This, I think, is what they assumed would work. I personally feel that we are in a good spot right now. Of course there are issues, but I do not see how something this large is justified. I'm just not seeing how this large nerf is suppose to be a good thing. And I would like to hear your side.

[Kojo]

I don't think the damage loss is justifiable at all, RoR or not our damage is not particularly outstanding. It's not because of some trinket, it's the fine tradition of them not knowing what the hell to do with feral. Its gotten to be a pretty common joke that no one at blizzard has ever played one.

[Viromand]

Dont like the Guardian one. If the new set pieces The healing touch heal will be completely useless. And taking away rebirth from NS and putting it into a lvl 90 talents for guardian is really dumb imo.

But wow resto druids are getting buffed as fuck on the lvl 90 talents.

[Deleted]

RoR in 5.4 probably will be replaced so this nerf isn't justified. Feral dps now is good for RoR and for implemented SR buff. But without RoR? I think will be like a shit....

[Viromand]

RoR in 5.4 probably will be replaced so this nerf isn't justified. Feral dps now is good for RoR and for implemented SR buff. But without RoR? I think will be like a shit....

I am not so sure about that if the iLVL will not change so 554 is heroic ilvl now with updates and TF, i could quess a heroic TF RoR will still be worth alot in 5.4 cause the RoR procc will get alot better with new gear. But with 2piece OoC thrash are gone to.

ofc we have not seen any items yet, but it seems like blizzard wants to make cats easier to play, with the 2piece and the new DoC, not surpirsed if we get a buff like rets on our SR too,

[aggixx]

I like the changes, thank you, blizzard.
WOL top ranked feral.

I don't believe you. I don't see how, from a completely objective standpoint, you could like these changes as they stand now.

RoR in 5.4 probably will be replaced so this nerf isn't justified. Feral dps now is good for RoR and for implemented SR buff. But without RoR? I think will be like a shit....

It won't be unless they nerf it.

On the DoC changes: Honestly, if they had DoC increase Rip's damage by ~40% I wouldn't be as upset about it. Would I still be upset? Yes, yes I would, I love the complexity the current DoC brings to the class, and to be completely honest, when you have good gear it practically plays itself, you just have to remember to hit HT when you get 4 CP. The fact that it only increases Rip's damage by 15% is just insulting... like what idiot thought of that number? At that rate that's probably in the neighborhood of a 10% nerf...

[Paloro]

I would agree that overall it's a ~10% nerf. Pretty crappy considering we were just buffed about 7% and Blizz said they didn't think we were doing enough damage......makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it?

[Tarazet]

It is a sizable nerf, but on the flip side, it's no longer mandatory to run DoC. Remains to be seen whether the three talents are well balanced now. There certainly is still a disparity for Guardians; both the current and revised versions of the talent are uncompetitive.