[Mage] Talk Amongst Yourselves Time...

[Vaelkder]

Hey everyone!

I'm NOT Linda Goodman (SNL FOR LIFE!!), and I'm not pushing how Barbra's voice is "like buttah," but I do have a topic which might merit discussion.

What would it be like if Blizzard started up a true Battle Mage, in the tradition of a leather and mail Spellcaster who really is on the front lines? More physical protection against damage, who can stand in place longer to hurl more damage and not have to worry as much about melting and being squishy.

Talk amongst yourselves!

[Akraen]

Mrgreenthump is gonna be all over this thread.

[Vaelkder]

I would value Mrgreenthump's opinion, honestly. He's got so much knowledge about WoW, the Lore behind it all, and he also has a good mind, so I feel certain that he might be able to add some very constructive thoughts here.

[Nefarious Tea]

The thing is... wow is so heavily invested in the tank/heals/dps trinity that it doesn't matter what kind of armor you're wearing, if you're not a tank and it hits you, you're fucking dead (ignoring the Fury warrior/frost DK/ret pally that tanks a heroic dungeon because their average item level is twice that of the drops). So there's no point to a battle-mage style caster with heavier armor when armor is meaningless.

On the flipside, if armor is somehow made meaningful (it seems like this might almost maybe be the case in WOD), then this caster would always be taken over mage/lock/spriest because they have more survivability.

But then you get to the actual mechanics of the class. Half caster/half melee is already covered by both DK and enhance shaman. What would you have this class do to stand out without being OP?

[Polarthief]

What would it be like if Blizzard started up a true Battle Mage, in the tradition of a leather and mail Spellcaster who really is on the front lines? More physical protection against damage, who can stand in place longer to hurl more damage and not have to worry as much about melting and being squishy

You'd have an Enhancement Shaman.

Sadly, there is no place for "Battlemage" with Shamans around.

[Obelisk Kai]

You'd have an Enhancement Shaman.

Sadly, there is no place for "Battlemage" with Shamans around.

You know I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read the OP and you beat me to the punch. And someone mentioned Unholy DKs as well.

This idea of a battlemage gets tossed out every few months whether it be in threads like this or in fourth spec threads. So just a few questions for the OP, although some are rhetorical.

1.) Has the concept ever been used in the Warcraft universe or is it a concept appropriated from other fiction?

2.)Given the existence of Enhancement Shamans (and Unholy Death Knights), what original design space could a 'battle-mage' spec occupy?

3.) Would Blizzard expand a class by adding a spec?

4.) In the case of Mages, why would they add another dps spec to a class already possessing three?

[Akraen]

I don't see why there's a conflict with unholy DKs or enhancement shaman.

That's like saying you can't have warlock or shadow priest while there is mage. Or you can't have cat while there is rogue.

Besides, Battle Mage doesn't need to play like any of the above.

[Deleted]

Well Battle mage nowdays really is a kinda close concept as the shaman and the death knight. Thats is wow gameplay wise by my opinion. Will it be either by imbuing your weapons with magic (shamy and the hell with .. SHAMAN KING) to hit harder the enemy or will use your weapons as a conduict for your magic, thus amplifying it (dk).

Yet again in my ears this might sound a bit more like a semi tank class a la monk.
Here is my toughts on the matter.
I have read the war of the ancients and there was several place (if i recall it right) where Rhonin survaived a near death just becuase his cloths were imbued with defencive magic. Also Gandalf from Lord of the Ring - i consider him battle mage too (actualy he is the most closest image i got for battle mage atm). You know he use both his staff and sword in fight and have very good skills in both arcane and martial arts.
So what i imagine , in the days after i had read those books and watched the movie, when i hear battle mage is something like really a tanklike spell caster who use his magic for both offence and defence, you know something liek a druid with heart of the wild talent, but just better and more dangerous :P

So basiacly my concept is really like Gandalf - a dualwielding class/spec, w/e you like to call it, wearing both a melle and caster weapon.
The caster weapon might be some sort of new type of weapon or maybe more like the librams were to the paladins. You will have your staff the only thing you will change will be the crystal at the end of it. Depending what type it is you might be able to cast a more powerful equivalents of a spells from diffrent schools, but yet again allowing to use and the other schools ofc.
The melle weapon could be either 1handed or 2handed sword(but only sword). It will work in some manner simmilar to DKs - doing weapon dmg+sp%, etc. Or maybe same as caster weapon (using a crystal to apmlyfy its potency) so we avoid weapon fight with warriors, paladins and dks for that nice new 2h weapon :P
Armor type could be both plate AND cloth. And depending what you choose to wear it will increas either melle or spell characteristics - plate=melle stats increased and cloth=caster stats increased. This might also solve the problem with int plate :P
Also i guess the battle mage shoudl be able to use his magic to enchance his armor. This is what will also diferentiate it from the standart mage, because well as you said he shoudl be able to be on front line so he should have some way to avoid/abosorb/negate/deflect most of the incoming damage (think AMS, Icebound Fortytude, Ironbark, Dampen harm, Difuse magic, etc) Might be done in Runeforging style, will varry again depending on the armor type on witch its made the enhancment. This should be also the mechanic witch will decide if they will be using caster heavy or melle (or even tank) heavy abilities.

[mrgreenthump]

The cheap way to do it would be to copy Shammies and DKs(they have gone more pureblood melee lately anyways). But just look at the core Mage spells and the spells we have had in the past few years.. If they would make time for it(which I think might not be the correct thing right now), they can do some really awesome stuff.. I mean melee with all the core Mage skills would probably break PvP, but how awesome would it be

You got to remember this is a dream of mine, you may not like it, but I do .. It's probably never going to happen anyways, so let us dream

I would value Mrgreenthump's opinion, honestly. He's got so much knowledge about WoW, the Lore behind it all, and he also has a good mind, so I feel certain that he might be able to add some very constructive thoughts here.

It's more towards me pushing Battle Mages all the time(had to implement the seeds for people to catch on the idea, you know)

[Swizzle]

Damn it, now that you've actually responded, I can't straight lock this. You bastard.

[Polarthief]

You know I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read the OP and you beat me to the punch. And someone mentioned Unholy DKs as well.

This idea of a battlemage gets tossed out every few months whether it be in threads like this or in fourth spec threads. So just a few questions for the OP, although some are rhetorical.

For Battlemage, I was thinking of a Melee Platewearer who could use magic as well as heal themselves. While the idea in my head is MUCH cooler than what's already in place, Retadin and all-'natural' Male Shaman Enhancement are already in the game, so... yeah.

UH DK is something else. Battlemages and Death/Dark Knights are significantly different.

- - - Updated - - -

Damn it, now that you've actually responded, I can't straight lock this. You bastard.

You were going to lock this?! Swizlpls.

[Vaelkder]

You know I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read the OP and you beat me to the punch. And someone mentioned Unholy DKs as well.

This idea of a battlemage gets tossed out every few months whether it be in threads like this or in fourth spec threads. So just a few questions for the OP, although some are rhetorical.

1.) Has the concept ever been used in the Warcraft universe or is it a concept appropriated from other fiction?

2.)Given the existence of Enhancement Shamans (and Unholy Death Knights), what original design space could a 'battle-mage' spec occupy?

3.) Would Blizzard expand a class by adding a spec?

4.) In the case of Mages, why would they add another dps spec to a class already possessing three?

I was wondering about Battle Mages because of the Battle Mages which Blizzard has placed all around the two landing spots for Alliance and Horde in the Krasarang Wilds. They're underpowered and easily defeated, as NPCs, but the idea is there and it could be expanded upon fairly easily (well, possibly not "easily," but it could happen with some creativity and dedication to flesh it out).

As a relative newcomer to the World of Warcraft, I don't have a depth of knowledge of the Lore behind everything, but my imagination has been sparked quite a bit by so many of the people who have posted here on the MMO Champion Forums (I stay away from the "official" Blizzard Forums because of the nastiness in the vast majority of posts and I'm tired of the negativity). I've been in contact with some of the regular contributors in the Mage Forums here, and have learned so much and know that I can always learn more. It's fascinating to read the opinions of others here and to see how everyone perceives this world, which helps me to enjoy it even more.

There are all sorts of logistical hurdles, of course, and I appreciate that. My idea here was just something to while away the time, speculating about the whichness of what and how to unscrew the inscrutable, during the months that we're anticipating Warlords of Draenor.

Again, it's just something to toss around and discuss. I don't want anyone to become Verklemmpt, of course, but some fun bantering and idea sharing is always a good thing.

Happy Coffee "Tawk!"

[Alexand3r]

All classes are somewhat similar so I don't see any reason why Enhancement Shamans and Death Knights should not allow the existence of Battlemages. Lorewise there are Battlemages in the Warcraft universe (Rhonin fought with weapons (on Wowpedia he's seen as a Warmage), and so did Kael'thas.
The problem is how Blizzard should implement this concept. I don't think it would fit as a whole new class so it would be either implemented through a glyph (Like Glyph of Demon Hunting, although I think this highly improbable) or through a Fourth Specialisation (who knows if Blizzard will add a fourth specialisation to the other classes and then would a Battlemage spec. focus on tanking or on dps?)
I'd prefer a dps Battlemage specialisation.
I came up with a few ideas regarding which abilities a Battlemage could have and which basic Mage spells would change if such a specialisation existed. I'm sure someone can come up with something better too.
http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...gridId=1224001 (As I said, it is not a proper talent grid, just a list of abilities.)


It may be a bit complicated but it can be done. What's important is that it feels Mage-ish and not something completely different.
It won't happen in WoD, but it could happen in future expansions.

[Saegno]

You'd have an Enhancement Shaman.

Sadly, there is no place for "Battlemage" with Shamans around.

It's simple, we kill the Sha-Man.

[Methusula]

Hey everyone!

I'm NOT Linda Goodman (SNL FOR LIFE!!), and I'm not pushing how Barbra's voice is "like buttah," but I do have a topic which might merit discussion.

What would it be like if Blizzard started up a true Battle Mage, in the tradition of a leather and mail Spellcaster who really is on the front lines? More physical protection against damage, who can stand in place longer to hurl more damage and not have to worry as much about melting and being squishy.

Talk amongst yourselves!

It's Cawfee Tawk, with Linda Richman! I'm getting a little verclempt.

[Polarthief]

<Joker Snip>

It's simple, we kill the Sha-Man.

XDDDDDD

I'd be down. We also need to kill the Pali-Man (or at least Retribution). Then we can have an actual "Magey" BattleMage.

[Obelisk Kai]

I was wondering about Battle Mages because of the Battle Mages which Blizzard has placed all around the two landing spots for Alliance and Horde in the Krasarang Wilds. They're underpowered and easily defeated, as NPCs, but the idea is there and it could be expanded upon fairly easily (well, possibly not "easily," but it could happen with some creativity and dedication to flesh it out).

As a relative newcomer to the World of Warcraft, I don't have a depth of knowledge of the Lore behind everything, but my imagination has been sparked quite a bit by so many of the people who have posted here on the MMO Champion Forums (I stay away from the "official" Blizzard Forums because of the nastiness in the vast majority of posts and I'm tired of the negativity). I've been in contact with some of the regular contributors in the Mage Forums here, and have learned so much and know that I can always learn more. It's fascinating to read the opinions of others here and to see how everyone perceives this world, which helps me to enjoy it even more.

There are all sorts of logistical hurdles, of course, and I appreciate that. My idea here was just something to while away the time, speculating about the whichness of what and how to unscrew the inscrutable, during the months that we're anticipating Warlords of Draenor.

Again, it's just something to toss around and discuss. I don't want anyone to become Verklemmpt, of course, but some fun bantering and idea sharing is always a good thing.

Happy Coffee "Tawk!"

Well there's nothing wrong with the idea, and indeed it is good to talk. Thing is, a melee battle mage would really just be a fourth dps spec. I'm all for Blizzard providing new specs to classes where required now that they have done so with Druids (well, a fourth option) but a fourth dps spec strikes me as redundant, even if it were designed to be in melee. If a fourth spec were to be added, I'd probably prefer to have it as tanking (although if fourth specs were added you can bet your bottom dollar the cloth tank would be the Warlock so I personally deem this unlikely) or healing, something we might actually consider using other than another dps to sim, see that it's not top and then never touch.

[mrgreenthump]

Can we stop the silliness and make this a proper thread so we don't have to close this.

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Well there's nothing wrong with the idea, and indeed it is good to talk. Thing is, a melee battle mage would really just be a fourth dps spec. I'm all for Blizzard providing new specs to classes where required now that they have done so with Druids (well, a fourth option) but a fourth dps spec strikes me as redundant, even if it were designed to be in melee. If a fourth spec were to be added, I'd probably prefer to have it as tanking (although if fourth specs were added you can bet your bottom dollar the cloth tank would be the Warlock so I personally deem this unlikely) or healing, something we might actually consider using other than another dps to sim, see that it's not top and then never touch.

Not if we swap Arcane to it

Also, keep Mages dps only..

If you want a Battle Mage that is tanking, then we would need a totally new class with Tank, Melee and maybe support spec

[Not Againnn]

how is battle mage the same ad dk or enh shaman?
mages get their powers from a different place. the playstyle could easily be 1/2 casting and 1/2 melee instants. putting a label and calling it a clone on a class that doesnt exist is dumb. should be looking for ways to make it different instead of saying that it cant happen because x y z stupid reasons.

[mrgreenthump]

how is battle mage the same ad dk or enh shaman?
mages get their powers from a different place. the playstyle could easily be 1/2 casting and 1/2 melee instants. putting a label and calling it a clone on a class that doesnt exist is dumb. should be looking for ways to make it different instead of saying that it cant happen because x y z stupid reasons.

Having core Mage spells would already make it totally different than DK or Shammy.. Though maybe a bit too much CC for a melee.