Do you think hunchbacks should be kept in the new models?

[Duridi]

Even so, and this is by no means universally popular, but WOW should look a lot more specific than many people who enjoy subtle precision in character creation would ever want to accept. I want to play in the world of these artists, it's what got me to like an RTS game and it's what got me into the MMO genre. Not the game play, that was just an amazing bonus.

Sliders open a pandora's box in regards to the handcrafted look of WOW's graphics. And I don't think that matter to a huge amount of the population, but it does to the people making decisions. Unless you want to accuse them of laziness. Which would also accuse them of being outright liars if this is claimed as I show you a direct quote on why they made such a deliberately limited character customization system.

To be honest, I am not one of those bothered by character creation. I am fine with it as it is, but more haircuts to pick, and a choice between hunchback or not on selected races(for example orc and troll, as they are muscular) doesn't hurt(I did on purpose not say undead, because they are pretty much falling apart, and I don't think it would fit the race having them stand straight. My opinion ofc). We don't need sliders. I am confident Blizzard can add more choices, without turning it into too much detail for for the player to pick. As you say, it's their artstyle, and like you, this is the artstyle I like. In fact. There is no artstyle in any other game I've seen, I like better than the one they use for WoW. It just hits me spot on.

[Zaelsino]

In an ideal world I wish they'd get rid of them for good (is there even a single piece of orc artwork where they're bent over like Quasimodo?), but I hope we get an option to change it at least.

[owbu]

They said that they cant change much, because we need to have this feeling of "yup, thats still my character!" the first time we log in.
Which is a lot more important for this to not end in a forum shitstorm, than some people wanting to have more options.

I would agree though, that a customisation update for all models would be the best thing to work on after they are done updating the models.
That way everyone will be happy. Eventually. Right after moonkin gets updated. Never.

[Yarathir]

It also bothers me that trolls have that hunching, slumping posture, and troll females don't. It's so idiotic. In the alpha, troll females had it too, but it was 'too ugly'. Hell to that. It makes no sense that the males of one race are hunched over monsters, and the females are straight-backed 'cuties'. For shame. :/

[Deleted]

the hunch should be removed, since the orcs that can be played arent peons.
which are the only orcs that actually have an hunch. s
however since blizzard was idiotic enough too make their orcs hunched im sure that some of the WoW only players assume this is how orcs actually look like and throw an uninformed hissy fit if they would correct it (at last).

personally i had rather seen the hunch removed completely, but the best option overall probally would be a choice between it or not.

[Wildmoon]

No it doesn't. This fucking ridiculous notion of balance in all things is a fabrication and a flawed argument and it's just pandering to the lowest common denominator int he community.

For one, compare customization options between just the vanilla races, some have over double the others in Vanilla alone. Before any expanded race got people to think there is a trend towards decreased customization, because all they see is their nose in front of their face to the exclusion of possible surroundings.

For another, the orc is the only one who was CHANGED from their CLASSIC DESIGN INTO SOMETHING ELSE. It's a fix, it's not a gift.

But while you're concern for those who bitch puzzles me outside of the scale of a RealID debacle, it does open the precedent for future customization for other races to have altered body types.

But FUCK the idea they have to democratize this shit, that's just absurd and rarely if ever a factor for any decision ever made as everything in this game manages to create a contingency of loons who hate it with a passion for some reason.

Nothing will ever be universally praised. I guess to take your argument to it's extreme end nothing should ever be changed or added to the game ever again in case someone complains.

Apologies for the harsh and blunt tone. I'm just a caveman.

You see it as a fix but some people see it as special treatment. Not all people know about lore. They think all races got updated but orc got 1 entirely new model. New seperate model is not comparable to faces/skins/features at all.

Orc is not the only race that was changed from concept art. Other races were changed more or less. I would argue that male NE is not true to their concept art.

Nothing will be without complaint but something would bring a big controversy. It's reasonable for people to complain about it. Knowing the lore or not doesn't matter. They just feel it's not fair. They want their favourite races to get new model too or even first before orc. Of course,ideally, we would have 2 models for all races.

As I have said, I am not against the idea because I have no strong feeling for either side but I understand the side that is against it too because creating 1 new model for a race does take time and resource away from doing other things when its necessity and priority are questionable. Some people desire for it but I would rank it really low in priority.

and no need to get mad. Keep your cool.

[Duridi]

players assume this is how orcs actually look like and throw an uninformed hissy fit if they would correct it (at last).

"Actually look like"?

Last I checked, orcs were a result of human imagination, and we are free to picture them as we see fit.

Since you're on about how orcs should look like, this is how a troll is suppose to look like, according to my culture, which honestly believed trolls existed for centuries;







So like orcs, how are trolls suppose to look like again?

[Traveler Voltin]

You see it as a fix but some people see it as special treatment. Not all people know about lore. They think all races got updated but orc got 1 entirely new model. New seperate model is not comparable to faces/skins/features at all.

Orc is not the only race that was changed from concept art. Other races were changed more or less. I would argue that male NE is not true to their concept art.

Nothing will be without complaint but something would bring a big controversy. It's reasonable for people to complain about it. Knowing the lore or not doesn't matter. They just feel it's not fair. They want their favourite races to get new model too or even first before orc. Of course,ideally, we would have 2 models for all races.

As I have said, I am not against the idea because I have no strong feeling for either side but I understand the side that is against it too because creating 1 new model for a race does take time and resource away from doing other things when its necessity and priority are questionable. Some people desire for it but I would rank it really low in priority.

and no need to get mad. Keep your cool.

they should have fixed that they messed up not make their mess ups look pretty.
but no. blizzard refuses and has no balls to fix what they screwed up in the first place.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Actually look like"?

Last I checked, orcs were a result of human imagination, and we are free to picture them as we see fit.

Since you're on about how orcs should look like, this is how a troll is suppose to look like, according to my culture, which honestly believed trolls existed for centuries;







So like orcs, how are trolls suppose to look like again?

Orcs stood tall. Yes they were imagined by humans, that's a no brainer. Orcs stood tall barring peons and the one asshole orc of them all. Gul'dan.... he bends down but he's a evil plotting monster so what do you expect?

[Duridi]

Orcs stood tall. Yes they were imagined by humans, that's a no brainer. Orcs stood tall barring peons and the one asshole orc of them all. Gul'dan.... he bends down but he's a evil plotting monster so what do you expect?

Question, had the orcs who stood up, had the blood of mannoroth yet?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Question, had the orcs who stood up, had the blood of mannoroth yet?

They always stood up. THEY ALWAYS DID. It wasn't until WoW things changed.

[Duridi]

They always stood up. THEY ALWAYS DID. It wasn't until WoW things changed.

Okay, this is a detail I haven't really cared for, but was that really that easy to spot in say, Warcraft 3? That's the Warcraft game I have played besides WoW, but I can't say I noticed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Okay, this is a detail I haven't really cared for, but was that really that easy to spot in say, Warcraft 3? That's the Warcraft game I have played besides WoW, but I can't say I noticed.

Yeah they stood tall.

[Duridi]

Yeah they stood tall.

Tried to google a few Warcraft images about it. Take this one as example;


I am not sure I would say that's totally "standing up"(as they seem to have their chest bending forward, and ties "pushing" forward). They are less bent forward than in WoW, but if you look at the ones more directly from front in this image, they remind me of the posture they have in WoW, seen from front. I guess it could be that they simply felt the hunch helped them get closer to the look they had in mind when WoW was designed, but that they've later been able to find the same feeling by avoiding the hunch. Purely an assumption ofc. I'll try find some old concept art to get an idea of their direction, but I have a feeling it will be slightly harder to locate legitimate art. Feel free to help me locate it, if you wish.

And yeah, I am well aware they are muscled, and that the muscles will give more of a forward feeling, that is why I suggested the hunch might have helped them get the look they wanted, more easy.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They changed it for some reason in WoW. I don't know WHY but that image says straight to me. I'm not even trying to be argumentative. It just looks straight.

[Duridi]

They changed it for some reason in WoW. I don't know WHY but that image says straight to me. I'm not even trying to be argumentative. It just looks straight.

I suppose. I can see why.

[Yig]

the hunch should be removed, since the orcs that can be played arent peons.
which are the only orcs that actually have an hunch. s
however since blizzard was idiotic enough too make their orcs hunched im sure that some of the WoW only players assume this is how orcs actually look like and throw an uninformed hissy fit if they would correct it (at last).

personally i had rather seen the hunch removed completely, but the best option overall probaly would be a choice between it or not.

Peons didn't hunch. It's just what the hunch evokes in cartoon symbolism, a primitive brutish slack jawed pea brain. Look. They only hunched really when lumbered down with bags of gold.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Peons didn't hunch. It's just what the hunch evokes in cartoon symbolism, a primitive brutish slack jaw pea brain. Look. They only hunched really when lumbered down with bags of gold.

"Oooh...that was kinda nice."


"Stop....."

"Quit poking me"


Ahhh WCIII emotes....

[Yig]

They changed it for some reason in WoW. I don't know WHY but that image says straight to me. I'm not even trying to be argumentative. It just looks straight.

They simply wanted every silhouette to be instantly recognizable from a long way away. They overdid it though.

- - - Updated - - -

You see it as a fix but some people see it as special treatment. Not all people know about lore. They think all races got updated but orc got 1 entirely new model. New seperate model is not comparable to faces/skins/features at all.

So fuckin' what? And it's a tweaked model, not a new seperate model, the orc already stands straight in many of their animations and poses.
This is an orc with proper posture, he's just walking.



But then he stops and turns into a slack jawed pea brained brute. There are thousands of people who don't play orcs who are fans of orcs because of this issue. And customization has never been balanced, and never will be. And once the door is opened, it sets precedent for more to come. Robinson has talked about multiple waves of expanded customization they're conceptualizing as we speak, so to speak. You seem to just be arguing for the sake of arguing, you have no vested interest in this, this is like a token dilemma for you it seems to me in some way.

Orc is not the only race that was changed from concept art. Other races were changed more or less. I would argue that male NE is not true to their concept art.

Arbitrary bullshit, pardon my french. No other race was drastically altered from their established look, ESPECIALLY not night elves. They always had massive oversized shoulders, tiny waists, huge floppy ears, oversized hands and feet, all along. Every WOW model is a softened and exaggerated caricature of the more edgy art. Intentionally goofy. You're just making arbitrary lines in the sand. Orcs were not just given softened features and exaggerated anatomy with a bit of goofiness, they were CHANGED into a completely altered demeanor making them seem like slack jawed primitive cavemen. Night Elves being too exaggerated for your taste is not equivalent to changing their posture into a totally different personality and demeanor. Although I pray to Elune they get rid of the female idle bounce and cheerleader cheer.

Nothing will be without complaint but something would bring a big controversy. It's reasonable for people to complain about it. Knowing the lore or not doesn't matter. They just feel it's not fair. They want their favourite races to get new model too or even first before orc. Of course,ideally, we would have 2 models for all races.

So what. There would be a few weeks of whining and an ocean of people defending and celebrating the change, it would be no different than the Pandaren/Kung Fu panda debacle. It's not worth considering as an issue. This is just a glass half empty/half full issue, it opens the door to good precedents concerning a variety of bodies. But the orcs deserve it ans it's been a controversial demand now for 9 years, it's just frosting for the other races to have an option.

As I have said, I am not against the idea because I have no strong feeling for either side but I understand the side that is against it too because creating 1 new model for a race does take time and resource away from doing other things when its necessity and priority are questionable. Some people desire for it but I would rank it really low in priority.

That's just more bullshit to my ears. It doesn't matter where art resources go, players are free to use those assets if they so choose, it's not ever a democratisation. It should never be one. You reveal your entire imo rather flimsy fret now by admitting you don't even care and consider it a low priority, while at the same time fretting over large numbers of people who would be unhappy. Yet you ignore or are ignorant of the army of players for 9 years who are unhappy already. You are just arbitrarily deciding based on your own projected preferences who deserves to be catered to it seems to me.

and no need to get mad. Keep your cool.

I'm cool as mutha fuckin' Fonzy over here, I just enjoy the freedom to curse like a sailor on this forum after being censored everywhere else. Apologies if you feel your opinion is being attacked rather than disputed.

[Yig]

And for the person who asked, this is the one piece of Blizzard game art showing the player posture from I believe Justin Thavirat of an orc, but he deliberately makes his art to look exactly like the game models in all of his art but rendered meticulously in higher fidelity.



- - - Updated - - -

Misquote? I've no idea what that has to do with regard to what I said:



So to reiterate; they aren't going to remove the hunch because their stated stance of wanting to preserve the essential look of our characters is absolute. The only hope for the people who want hunchless orcs, something I happen to support by the way, is to have an option for it sometime down the line.

Perhaps you missed the fact this in NOW on the WISHLIST in their current project, and Robinson's now alluded multiple times now to the possibility of seeing multiple waves of added customization that is being conceptualized, including finding new ways of player requested features for customization through open dialog with the community itself. Thus I assumed you were aware of this quote and deciding to portray it as the jaded and cynical trademarked Blizzard "soon". As if telling us it is on their wishlist was meaningless and not worth getting your hopes up over.

Perhaps you just aren't aware of this. I assumed perhaps you're just being cynical or "conservative" to protect yourself from disappointment, hence the context of my reply to you.



EDIT: Yes of course, it's not concrete. But it's a miracle to see them express the desire.