Is questing too simple?

[Deleted]

So this video popped up on my suggested videos on Youtube.



It's a video by Extra Credits, and it discusses quests in MMOs, how they used to be in Everquest, and how they are now in WoW. I wanted to hear your opinions on it. I would personally like quests in WoW to be like that because I like the concept of quests, actually playing the game instead of just logging in every Saturday to raid. I'd like them to be enjoyable, to have depth, instead of just ''go stab x amount of y in the face and come back'' as a way to get to 90, or in WoD, 100. Quests like that would make WoW feel like an actual Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game instead of just pressing buttons to generate numbers, to get better gear, to generate even bigger numbers with 25 other people.

[Deldari]

I don't mind quests in WoW when I read all the text, and find the story usually to be pretty good. I can appreciate the formula feeling stale for many, but I think Blizzard comes leaps and bounds with each new expansion.

As much of a joke the game might be, I actually find RuneScape's quests to be varied and interesting, reminding me of the old point and click Sierra games in the 90's. That is definitely my favourite MMO in terms of quests.

[Deleted]

I don't mind quests in WoW when I read all the text, and find the story usually to be pretty good. I can appreciate the formula feeling stale for many, but I think Blizzard comes leaps and bounds with each new expansion.

As much of a joke the game might be, I actually find RuneScape's quests to be varied and interesting, reminding me of the old point and click Sierra games in the 90's. That is definitely my favourite MMO in terms of quests.

Yeah, a lot of Runescape's quests are really good and feel like actual quests, they nailed that, I agree.

[Sierra85]

i wish there was a "challenge mode" quest chain or something. A quest that was super epic and difficult that took you all over the world of warcraft.

[Deleted]

As much of a joke the game might be, I actually find RuneScape's quests to be varied and interesting, reminding me of the old point and click Sierra games in the 90's. That is definitely my favourite MMO in terms of quests.

Indeed, I have always said to my friends that runescape had the best quests I'd ever done. I remember doing all the preparation I'd do in order to be ready to do a quest then to have that achievement of having done it afterwards.

[Rhamses]

Good video. I subscribed.

I have no issue with WoW's quest design though...

[Terahertz]

Yeah, a lot of Runescape's quests are really good and feel like actual quests, they nailed that, I agree.

Everytime I think about fun and immersive quests I think about Runescape. Although some quests are really difficult and many of them basically require you to use a guide (not needed, but it makes stuff easier), the quests make you travel across the whole world with minimal combat actually involved. Problem is though, that WoW really doesn't allow for these types of quests because of the design of "leveling zones".

[Auxis]

How can you make it harder then?

Either by making all quests group quests (worked awesomely for FF14 or whatever....not) or you make them intricate in which case people just google the solution. Leaves: making all quests dexterious rope jumping stuff.

I mean, there already are things of exploration that can take ages to complete like all the treasure of Pandaria or Lorewalker items, beut EVERYTHING can be looked up on the internet.

Old MMOs (or text adventures) were hard because you couldn't look shit up immediately like you can now. Somebody datamines and spoils everything always and we as a rule are too weak to resist a peek.

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I would argue the legendary cloak quest is something. Yes, there are parts that are obnoxius and just RNG, but take it from here and run with it. Or..if you disiked every single aspect of the legendary quest, then knock yourself out and say how you would do it. Just saying it should be "super epic and difficult" is a bit vague. For example the solo scenario in the forge was a real cockblock to a lot of people, others would find it faceroll (and it did get a shitload of comments on wowhead)

The great thing would be: Every idea that you toss around would get immediate feedback from other posters.

But you don't HAVE to look up the solution. If someone wants to, let them. If someone doesn't want to; well, they just keep trying to figure it out.

I can think of one thing in Pandaria that was a leap from what we know; the Mushan Catapult quest at the first farm in Valley of the Four Winds. Having to think about how heavy the turnip, watermelon, and barrel of tofu were; then having to choose how hard you wanted the Mushan to hit it in order to land at the next farm.

Granted, it's only 3 choices of how hard to hit it. But still; its a leap (or if that's exaggerated; a step) from the 5 basic quests that were outlined.

[weedburst]

no.

/10char

[cncrules45]

Great idea for mains. Terrible idea for alts. There's a reason that WoW's quests were like this in Vanilla and they were all removed.

That said, I still feel that there is room for WoW to have some of these back. Quest lines that takes hours to do because you have to travel everywhere. They should be post-game focused though, as no one will do them as leveling content.

Content like the ring quest mentioned in the link exists in WoW, but there is just so much content on the internet now that everyone in game knows about that it doesn't stay a secret or a semi-secret like it did before.

[durrtygoodz]

That guys voice...

[Baracuda]

Everytime I think about fun and immersive quests I think about Runescape. Although some quests are really difficult and many of them basically require you to use a guide (not needed, but it makes stuff easier), the quests make you travel across the whole world with minimal combat actually involved. Problem is though, that WoW really doesn't allow for these types of quests because of the design of "leveling zones".

That awkward runescape moment (at least 10 years ago) when you enter a deep cave for a long quest and don't have a tinderbox or w/e :/

[Auxis]

Great idea for mains. Terrible idea for alts. There's a reason that WoW's quests were like this in Vanilla and they were all removed.

That said, I still feel that there is room for WoW to have some of these back. Quest lines that takes hours to do because you have to travel everywhere. They should be post-game focused though, as no one will do them as leveling content.

Content like the ring quest mentioned in the link exists in WoW, but there is just so much content on the internet now that everyone in game knows about that it doesn't stay a secret or a semi-secret like it did before.

I can think of the thunderlizard in Searing Gorge that dropped the horn which eventually got you the key to Searing Gorge, but care to enlighten me on other quests like the ring?

Edit: Oh, and the old Stalvan questline.

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That guys voice...

... I believe had a filter put over the top of it.

[Deleted]

Great idea for mains. Terrible idea for alts. There's a reason that WoW's quests were like this in Vanilla and they were all removed.

That said, I still feel that there is room for WoW to have some of these back. Quest lines that takes hours to do because you have to travel everywhere. They should be post-game focused though, as no one will do them as leveling content.

Content like the ring quest mentioned in the link exists in WoW, but there is just so much content on the internet now that everyone in game knows about that it doesn't stay a secret or a semi-secret like it did before.

I guess it would loose it's charm a bit after a while, huh...

no.

/10char

Well that's constructive.

That guys voice...

It's probably slightly modified...

[freighttrain]

The games being compared to WoW are completely different experiences and thise types of quests fit better within the scopes of those other games. WoW is all about level cap so of course the quests are designed to funnel us there.

Would I like to see more quests in the game like Rolo's Riddle, where tge player had to explore and be aware of his or her surroundings possibly even having to talk to some NPCs to get clues all without map markings. 1-3 per zone would be more than enough. Ultimately WoW was never about the exploration that EQ, Runescape, or TSW are/were.

[cncrules45]

I can think of the thunderlizard in Searing Gorge that dropped the horn which eventually got you the key to Searing Gorge, but care to enlighten me on other quests like the ring?

Edit: Oh, and the old Stalvan questline.

Off the top of my head:

OOX homing beacon quests.
Crafting profession quests.
Gahz'rilla mallet.

And I think we can agree that Vanilla questing was not the tool the developers used to push players through content and levels, questing was the game for them. The long quests that required you to go to both continents or multiple zones weren't rare. You didn't do them because they were an efficient way to level, you did them because you wanted to finish the quest. Or, after the second or third time and after BC/LK came out, you just didn't do them.

[lunchbox2042]

When you're doing 50-100 quests per level then it's going to get repetitive. I think WoW's biggest problem is that questing is the optimal way to level. Battlegrounds, instances and pet battles don't give nearly enough experience compared to questing at the higher levels.

[Orby]

That guys voice...

I think it was altered, he doesn't sound like that in real life if he did he'd have to be living in helium.

On topic: Great video...

Personally I like idea of finding your own quest, like the old days.

Correct me if I am wrong here but I think WoW really started the whole "Hovering Quest" thing, before WoW a lot of RPG's were about talking to someone to find out if they had a quest or not, some RPG's still do that Dragon Age: Origins for example.

Even in WoW questing itself back in 2004-2007 had no markers showing you where to go (introduced in WotLK) you had to read the quest to find out where it was, and alot of people seemed to lack reading skills or just wasn't interested in reading it, so Blizzard gave them helper guides to easier questing, either showing them on your map where it was and also offering sparkles over someone pick up objectives. Where before a quest giver would tell you roughly where a quest would be and you'd set out and find it.

Also with a quest, most of the time, it wasn't in the area you acquired it either. Take Collin Mauren a former quest giver (still hovering around in Stormwind but doesn't give out quests anymore), had a quest called "Retrieval for Mauren" a quest that sent you to go to Stoentalon and farm these scales that were bloody hard to get. Now while it was an annoying quest for me back then (and probably glad its gone in a way) it did have you travel and explore making find a route to Kalimdor from Stormwind.

I could have said no to that quest back then, and abandoned it, and there would have been no harm in dropping it, where as now dropping the quest in a zone can hinder the quest progression of a whole zone stopping you in your tracks and unable to go anywhere.

Questing in WoW is too liner now, it holds your hand through every single zone, and while its great in someways as people can get through content alot easier (not eveyone likes to quest), its not my way of wanting to level.

Of course this is my thoughts, I see why people prefer it this way and I dont blame them, its just I preferred the mystery and finding out for yourself and finding your own quests like from older RPG's than the whole "look am a quest giver click on me" standard we have come to see in eery MMO and RPG now.

Of course I still love WoW and still like leveling, I just I think we need to go back to go forward in terms of how questing and exploration works in MMO and RPG's

[The Flavour Cat]

I guess it could be seen as simple, given how many are 'Kill X amount of Y', or 'Gather X number of Y'. Caataclysm brought about the linear zones and connected story lines, which I enjoy playing through, but it also did away with many of the cool, hidden quests.
I do wish Blizzard would bring some of them back. It could be an item at the bottom of the sea, or hidden in nooks and crannies of Azeroth and beyond. Thinking of examples, there are:
.The Message in a Bottle quest in STV
.The one by Thandol Span that you had to jump across to meet the Dwarf who waned you to rush to Southshore to turn something in (Quest timers-I love 'em!)
.Or even the CLUCK! quest which you discover from /clucking at a chicken in Tirisfal/Westfall for a cool little chicken pet reward.

There doesn't even have to be some reward attached to the quest(s), as long as story and character and engrossing and involving.
And check out this link for some of the notable old quests:
http://wowpedia.org/Long,_exceptiona...den_questlines

[Sansnom]

Interesting. Partially agree with what he said. I play TSW and the quests there is much much better than the WoW design. There are many aspects of TSW that I hope to see as a template for future MMO. Unfortunately, too many will follow WoW simply because it is the most successful.

Saying that, there are things that WoW does is better. Making the players having to talk to NPC for gaining quests is a two edge sword. On the first hand, it encourages players to discover things, a sense of adventure, which is a good thing. But it can also be missed by the players. The ring, while sounding like an excellent idea, can be missed. How many of us jumps into every pool in WoW just for fun? If players never jumps into that pool with the ring, they will never get to experience the quest. As a developer, you do not really want to put time into something that will not be fully utilized by the players. Using the ring as an example, the developer could put several rings in many pools to increase the chance of discovery.

Maybe that is the option. Rather than having a single trigger point for a quest, like all MMOs, have multiple trigger point so to increase the chance of players discovering the start of a quest.