beta moonkins - is the new eclipse style actually fun?

[Pippilongear]

Sine-wave is fine.
The rest of the damage-dealer toolkit is extremely bland.

On Team Waffle they were talking about the "Cyous Step Eclipse" proposal - what is that exactly?
NVM found your post on the WoW forums http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1747232?page=1


Also does it feel like we have more or less control over when and how we deal our damage in WoD vs. MoP?

[Skarleet]

I'm on the fence. I would say the rotation feels clunkier because you're so glued to the eclipse bar now. In theory and maybe on longer fights it would be great but in the questing experience its meh.

As far as tracking the eclipse goes though, they did change the sun/moon effect when you go into lunar/solar into an animated eclipse bar if you will so you do have one in the middle of your screen. However, you can't freaking see it with a zoomed out camera (I don't know how many people play zoomed in). So they tried but it needs work because it's pretty much useless in it's current form.

[Teebone]

On Team Waffle they were talking about the "Cyous Step Eclipse" proposal - what is that exactly?
NVM found your post on the WoW forums http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1747232?page=1


Also does it feel like we have more or less control over when and how we deal our damage in WoD vs. MoP?

Less. Way less. You're basically just along for the ride.

[cszsolt3]

Just gave this a whirl on beta, done some dungeons etc. From what I can tell , the rotation is definitely easier to handle, however when it comes to a fight with differing dynamics, adds, aoe, etc. I think the new rotation actually has the potential to hold a higher skillcap, this is with using solar flare, or whatever the new talent called with the purple icon that puts on a big dot.

[Deleted]

haha, just got a beta invite and tried out the new moonkin> Feels really weird coming from the MoP Moonkin, basically plays completely different imo.

Will have to play a bit more to get a real feel for it tho :O

[timmytompadderham]

Less. Way less. You're basically just along for the ride.

People that say this have no understanding of how eclipse ties into your damage in both expansions or how that applies to PVE situations. You have far more control over your damage in WoD, and more control over the eclipse bar. Just because it moves on its own doesn't mean you have less control. You have to cast wrath/starfire/starsurge in MoP, but you also have to move out of fire, and then the eclipse bar stops moving, you lose NG uptime and you never have a consistant pull where you are always in the same part of your cycle at X time during an encounter.

And then we have starsurge charges and astral communion actually moves the bar faster. There's just as much "control" in WoD, it's just how you are defining it.

[Deleted]

Starfire or wrath during celestial alignment?

[Deleted]

Starfire or wrath during celestial alignment?

Celestalon said that starfire has a 5% higher Dpet than wrath, so starfire in CA. If this is opener ca anyway.

On topic, the new eclipse feels so slow and clunky and without any haste is boring beyond belief.

[timmytompadderham]

Starfire or wrath during celestial alignment?

it depends on what eclipse you are in when you hit CA atm, which is annoying. If you CA during solar you cannot get lunar empowerment buff from starsurge. Hopefully this is changed.

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clunky

and this means? not very useful feedback and overused/ annoying word that doesn't say what you dislike about it.

Nice sig btw - fyi no one cares especially this tier being a massive rng fest. Not sure the benefit of people parading around a useless website.

[Deleted]

Sounds like I will finally be able to play a druid and like it.

[Deleted]

Would love to hear a bit about PvP, like:

- How are you guys handling the transition from dot dot dot starsurge to a more hard-cast style of play? Although I love the change, I'm kinda worried since it ends up making life easier for melee ...but don't you have an instant spell every 10 secs thanks to frenzy or sth like that or did they remove frenzy for good?
- Since starsurge and starfall share charges, we were nerfed (correct me if I'm wrong) in the damage department, in the sense that now we have to choose between spread damage and focus-target. Do you find yourself using all your charges for starsurge?
- Do you find yourself astral communion as often as you did in MoP? I guess the benefits of reaching the edges of the bar are still there, but still, now we have "much more" to cast (well, assuming people still take us for focus-fire and not just warlock like spec :P)

Finally boomkins are getting the love they deserve, I remember complaining about their nerfs way before I started playing a druid (and I'm resto!)

[Deleted]

it depends on what eclipse you are in when you hit CA atm, which is annoying. If you CA during solar you cannot get lunar empowerment buff from starsurge. Hopefully this is changed.

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and this means? not very useful feedback and overused/ annoying word that doesn't say what you dislike about it.

Nice sig btw - fyi no one cares especially this tier being a massive rng fest. Not sure the benefit of people parading around a useless website.

Why does using this sig offend you so much? i didnt throw it in your face, what i put in my sig has nothing to do with you.

Its not like i go, LOOK AT MY PRO RAIDERS (which is pretty terrible anyway) LISTEN TO ME!!!!!!!

[Teebone]

People that say this have no understanding of how eclipse ties into your damage in both expansions or how that applies to PVE situations. You have far more control over your damage in WoD, and more control over the eclipse bar. Just because it moves on its own doesn't mean you have less control. You have to cast wrath/starfire/starsurge in MoP, but you also have to move out of fire, and then the eclipse bar stops moving, you lose NG uptime and you never have a consistant pull where you are always in the same part of your cycle at X time during an encounter.

And then we have starsurge charges and astral communion actually moves the bar faster. There's just as much "control" in WoD, it's just how you are defining it.

No understanding? Have you even been in beta? What NG are you talking about? That's gone. The bar moves if you sneeze. It's way too sensitive. Raiding is going to be annoying as HELL in this current state. Makes a controlled burst at the beginning of an encounter nearly impossible.. and AC doesn't help much. It may move the bar back to a position you want it to be in, but it immediately swings the opposite way.

I think AC should be changed. Maybe have it 'pause' the bar in whatever position it was in during activation for... I dunno, 6-8 seconds? Would make this auto-eclipsing bar a bit more tolerable.

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and this means? not very useful feedback and overused/ annoying word that doesn't say what you dislike about it.

Here I can explain that to you: It means during a boss encounter you're going to be paying more attention to your own spec's mechanics rather than the fight's mechanics. At least at first... I translate that into bad gameplay.

[timmytompadderham]

Here I can explain that to you: It means during a boss encounter you're going to be paying more attention to your own spec's mechanics rather than the fight's mechanics. At least at first... I translate that into bad gameplay.

Just because something has changed and you have yet to adapt to it and break out of old habits does not mean it's bad. It takes time to become comfortable with any new class. This is no different.

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No understanding? Have you even been in beta? What NG are you talking about? That's gone. The bar moves if you sneeze. It's way too sensitive. Raiding is going to be annoying as HELL in this current state. Makes a controlled burst at the beginning of an encounter nearly impossible.. and AC doesn't help much. It may move the bar back to a position you want it to be in, but it immediately swings the opposite way.

I think AC should be changed. Maybe have it 'pause' the bar in whatever position it was in during activation for... I dunno, 6-8 seconds? Would make this auto-eclipsing bar a bit more tolerable.

How would burst be more difficult than now? If anything it's simpler. It's really annoying when people blow everything out of proportions after playing something for half an hour and deciding that it's bad because they aren't familiar or comfortable with it yet.

The bar doesn't move if you sneeze... Nothing you cast but AC/CA alters eclipse movement. It pauses for ages at the peaks - long enough my grandmother could fit 2 starfires in that amount of time.

50% of this thread isn't an analysis of the balance playstyle on beta, rather a bunch of people freaking out because it's changed. Newsflash: you actually have more control over your damage on beta than live. Making small errors w/ the eclipse resource - lets say hitting starfire at 99 instead of 100 because of a mistiming is extremely trivial to your damage. Starsurge usage is far more important. I don't think you really understand the amount of damage boost our mastery gives at different points on the bar.

[Deleted]

you actually have more control over your damage on beta than live. Making small errors w/ the eclipse resource - lets say hitting starfire at 99 instead of 100 because of a mistiming is extremely trivial to your damage. Starsurge usage is far more important. I don't think you really understand the amount of damage boost our mastery gives at different points on the bar.

I am not on beta and i want to ask: in an ideal scenario must i calculate my casttimings of lets say 3-4 wraths before i hit the next eclipse. I mean is it lost dmg if my last wrath ends casting after i enter eclipse. And if this is true is it better to clip a dot or what?

I dont get it atm

[Todoida]

i have a question as well. I tried the beta client yesterday and CA dont apply both dots anymore. So, how our oppening will be? We use starflare, AC until almost leaving lunar, moonfire, starflare, sunfire and CA? Or its worth to CA on pull without the sunfire?

[Teebone]

I am not on beta and i want to ask: in an ideal scenario must i calculate my casttimings of lets say 3-4 wraths before i hit the next eclipse. I mean is it lost dmg if my last wrath ends casting after i enter eclipse. And if this is true is it better to clip a dot or what?

I dont get it atm

It defaults to 3 wraths and two starfires. You get about 6 seconds at each peak before it swings over. Not accounting for haste... but since it will be nearly impossible to actively stack haste (or pretty much any stat) in WoD as we do now, I would consider that to be a non-factor.

[timmytompadderham]

You get about 6 seconds at each peak before it swings over. Not accounting for haste...

You need to choose your words more carefully. Haste has no effect on the eclipse cycle. Only cast speed, GCD and dot ticks. This sentence implies that more haste would somehow change eclipse cycles.

[huth]

No understanding? Have you even been in beta? What NG are you talking about? That's gone. The bar moves if you sneeze. It's way too sensitive. Raiding is going to be annoying as HELL in this current state. Makes a controlled burst at the beginning of an encounter nearly impossible.. and AC doesn't help much. It may move the bar back to a position you want it to be in, but it immediately swings the opposite way.

Erm... did you even pay any attention to how it works? Because you sound like you haven't understood anything.

I am not on beta and i want to ask: in an ideal scenario must i calculate my casttimings of lets say 3-4 wraths before i hit the next eclipse. I mean is it lost dmg if my last wrath ends casting after i enter eclipse. And if this is true is it better to clip a dot or what?

I dont get it atm

You don't "hit" eclipses like you do now. They gradually fade in and out. There is never a time where you aren't in Eclipse, and only very little where you aren't in both. Casting a Wrath slightly before or after the tipping point isn't going to make much of a difference.

[alemap]

People that say this have no understanding of how eclipse ties into your damage in both expansions or how that applies to PVE situations. You have far more control over your damage in WoD, and more control over the eclipse bar. Just because it moves on its own doesn't mean you have less control. You have to cast wrath/starfire/starsurge in MoP, but you also have to move out of fire, and then the eclipse bar stops moving, you lose NG uptime and you never have a consistant pull where you are always in the same part of your cycle at X time during an encounter.

And then we have starsurge charges and astral communion actually moves the bar faster. There's just as much "control" in WoD, it's just how you are defining it.

This made me realize a benefit I hadn't really caught on to earlier. We will be able to plan out boss fights much more easily now. Lets say we know, hypothetically, that a boss will summon adds one minute into the fight. On live, we would do everything we could to hit solar at the exact moment they are summoned. Sometimes the stars would align and this would work perfectly. More frequently, pulling this off required you to delay eclipses, resulting in a hit to your damage. There is certainly an element of skill there but it always awkward to me. With the new eclipse system, you can actually time out. You will know, 100% of the time, what eclipse you should be in at the 1 minute mark. If it isn't the eclipse you want, then you can figure out exactly how much time you need to spend casting Astral Communion to hit that point. And then you can do that Astral Communion at any point in the first minute of the fight.

Net result: we lose the ability to control eclipse on a moment-to-moment basis in a fight by delaying our rotation but we have much more control over ability to map out our eclipse over the course of a fight in advance by timing eclipses with particular mechanics. To me that's a good change.

On beta, the new eclipse mechanic takes some getting used to and definitely feels slower but I think that is partly a matter of it being the beginning of a new expansion and haste values being re-scaled. Every class always feels slower when you transition from heroic raid gear from the final tier of an expansion to quest greens and dungeon blues in the next expansion. Even if the eclipse mechanic stayed the same, everything would still feel slower.