Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Ryme]

Using shadowboy's combat profile to fill the spot for combat, I've started working on the assassination and subtlety gear sets, here's my results so far:





Profiles for those interested.

rogue="Rogue_Subtlety_T17H"
level=100
race=troll
role=attack
position=back
talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#cb!2000020
glyphs=energy
spec=subtlety

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,nonlethal=crippling
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/premeditation
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40
actions+=/kick
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/blood_fury,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60
actions+=/premeditation,if=combo_points<=4
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions+=/ambush,if=combo_points<5|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<3)|(buff.sleight_of_hand.up&buff.sleight_of_hand.remains<=gcd)
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=75
actions+=/shadow_dance,if=energy>=75&buff.stealth.down&buff.vanish.down&debuff.find_weakness.down
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=45
actions+=/vanish,if=energy>=45&energy<=75&combo_points<=3&buff.shadow_dance.down&buff.master_of_subtlety.down&debuff.find_weakness.down
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points=0
actions+=/shadow_reflection
actions+=/run_action_list,name=generator,if=talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<4&buff.slice_and_dice.up&dot.rupture.remains>2&(buff.slice_and_dice.remains<6|dot.rupture.remains<4)
actions+=/run_action_list,name=finisher,if=combo_points=5
actions+=/run_action_list,name=generator,if=combo_points<4|energy>80|talent.anticipation.enabled
actions+=/run_action_list,name=pool

# Combo point generators

actions.generator=run_action_list,name=pool,if=buff.master_of_subtlety.down&buff.shadow_dance.down&debuff.find_weakness.down&(energy+cooldown.shadow_dance.remains*energy.regen<80|energy+cooldown.vanish.remains*energy.regen<60)
actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=active_enemies>=4
actions.generator+=/hemorrhage,if=(remains<8&target.time_to_die>10)|position_front
actions.generator+=/shuriken_toss,if=energy<65&energy.regen<16
actions.generator+=/backstab
actions.generator+=/run_action_list,name=pool

# Combo point finishers

actions.finisher=slice_and_dice,if=buff.slice_and_dice.remains<4
actions.finisher+=/rupture,if=(!ticking|remains<duration*0.3)&active_enemies<3
actions.finisher+=/crimson_tempest,if=(active_enemies>1&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain<=2&combo_points=5)|active_enemies>=5
actions.finisher+=/eviscerate,if=active_enemies<4|(active_enemies>3&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain>=2)
actions.finisher+=/run_action_list,name=pool

# Resource pooling

actions.pool=preparation,if=!buff.vanish.up&cooldown.vanish.remains>60

head=poisoners_helmet,id=115572,bonus_id=567
neck=darklight_necklace,id=113865,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
shoulders=poisoners_spaulders,id=115574,bonus_id=567
back=drape_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113971,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_shattered_stalactites,id=113935,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=conductors_multipocket_girdle,id=113964,bonus_id=567
legs=shattering_smash_leggings,id=113989,bonus_id=567
feet=furnace_tenders_treads,id=113895,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelendting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
finger2=unexploded_explosive_shard,id=113877,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
trinket1=scales_of_doom,id=113612,bonus_id=567
trinket2=beating_heart_of_the_mountain,id=113931,bonus_id=567
main_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf
off_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf

rogue="Rogue_Assassination_T17H"
level=100
race=troll
role=attack
position=back
talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#ca!2....21
glyphs=vendetta/energy/disappearance
spec=assassination

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,nonlethal=crippling
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/marked_for_death
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice,if=talent.marked_for_death.enabled

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40
actions+=/kick
actions+=/preparation,if=!buff.vanish.up&cooldown.vanish.remains>60
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/berserking
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60
actions+=/vanish,if=time>10&!buff.stealth.up
actions+=/shadow_reflection
actions+=/rupture,if=combo_points=5&ticks_remain<3
actions+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=active_enemies>1&!ticking&combo_points=5
actions+=/mutilate,if=buff.stealth.up
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points=0
actions+=/fan_of_knives,if=combo_points<5&active_enemies>=4
actions+=/rupture,if=(remains<2|(combo_points=5&remains<=(duration*0.3)))&active_enemies=1
actions+=/vendetta
actions+=/envenom,if=(combo_points>4&buff.envenom.remains<2&(cooldown.death_from_above.remains>2|!talent.death_from_above.enabled))&active_enemies<4
actions+=/mutilate,if=target.health.pct>35&combo_points<5&active_enemies<5
actions+=/dispatch,if=(combo_points<5|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<4))&active_enemies<4
actions+=/mutilate,if=active_enemies<5

head=poisoners_helmet,id=115572,bonus_id=567
neck=darklight_necklace,id=113865,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
shoulders=flamebenders_shoulderguards,id=113924,bonus_id=567
back=drape_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113971,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_shattered_stalactites,id=113935,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=conductors_multipocket_girdle,id=113964,bonus_id=567
legs=poisoners_legguards,id=115573,bonus_id=567
feet=furnace_tenders_treads,id=113895,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
finger2=unexploded_explosive_shard,id=113877,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
trinket1=humming_blackiron_trigger,id=113985,bonus_id=567
trinket2=beating_heart_of_the_mountain,id=113931,bonus_id=567
main_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_bleeding_hollow
off_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_bleeding_hollow

.
If these hold true, expect another combat expansion!

[Deleted]

Yes celestalon called it the most op healing in the game even though it was one of the weakest heals on beta do to the fact hybrid healing is so crazy in wod.

He also said they didn't change the notes" "Because it was overpowered" doesn't really say anything interesting, so we don't bother putting that in the patch notes."

How is recuperate OP? Hunters can spec into it PASSIVELY! With Spirit Bond All they have to do is keep their pet alive, no energy cost, no 5 combo points no nothing.

''Kill Shot now heals the Hunter for 15% of maximum health if it kills the target.
Survivalist is a new passive ability learned by Survival Hunters at level 10.
Survivalist increases the Hunter's chance to Multistrike by 10%. Additionally, the Hunter gains 15% health over 10 seconds after killing a target.''
Now THIS is what I call self-sustainability. Then we also have disengage heal glyph and a small things like chimera shot heal on top of all other existing self-sustainability skills.

I am honestly very surprised Celestalon is calling recuperate OP. Because its really not. Rogues will remain the most shitty class to lvl up due to gaining resources too slow for beginners and dying too fast in low lvl's due to bad self-sustainability.
Their whole design pilosophy has constantly contributed to the exodus of Rogue population, moving on to other classes such as DK, Druid and Hunter.
Least they could do is make Leeching Poison baseline...

[Feali]

How is recuperate OP? Hunters can spec into it PASSIVELY! With Spirit Bond All they have to do is keep their pet alive, no energy cost, no 5 combo points no nothing.

''Kill Shot now heals the Hunter for 15% of maximum health if it kills the target.
Survivalist is a new passive ability learned by Survival Hunters at level 10.
Survivalist increases the Hunter's chance to Multistrike by 10%. Additionally, the Hunter gains 15% health over 10 seconds after killing a target.''
Now THIS is what I call self-sustainability. Then we also have disengage heal glyph and a small things like chimera shot heal on top of all other existing self-sustainability skills.

I am honestly very surprised Celestalon is calling recuperate OP. Because its really not. Rogues will remain the most shitty class to lvl up due to gaining resources too slow for beginners and dying too fast in low lvl's due to bad self-sustainability.
Their whole design pilosophy has constantly contributed to the exodus of Rogue population, moving on to other classes such as DK, Druid and Hunter.
Least they could do is make Leeching Poison baseline...

I am honestly very surprised Celestalon still has a job. He's fucking useless and has no clue.

[Raicky]

How is recuperate OP? Hunters can spec into it PASSIVELY! With Spirit Bond All they have to do is keep their pet alive, no energy cost, no 5 combo points no nothing.

''Kill Shot now heals the Hunter for 15% of maximum health if it kills the target.
Survivalist is a new passive ability learned by Survival Hunters at level 10.
Survivalist increases the Hunter's chance to Multistrike by 10%. Additionally, the Hunter gains 15% health over 10 seconds after killing a target.''
Now THIS is what I call self-sustainability. Then we also have disengage heal glyph and a small things like chimera shot heal on top of all other existing self-sustainability skills.

I am honestly very surprised Celestalon is calling recuperate OP. Because its really not. Rogues will remain the most shitty class to lvl up due to gaining resources too slow for beginners and dying too fast in low lvl's due to bad self-sustainability.
Their whole design pilosophy has constantly contributed to the exodus of Rogue population, moving on to other classes such as DK, Druid and Hunter.
Least they could do is make Leeching Poison baseline...

Just to put some things into perspective..

Chimera shot heal is a major glyph that heals for 2% on a 10 sec cd.
Survivalist heals the hunter only on a KB. 15% over 10 secs. - Completely useless in PvE (other than solo'ing) and a very weaker version of Victory Rush.
Spirit bond needs Hunters to talent into it. And currently it doesn't work along with Lone Wolf (Best level 100 talent for MM/SV).
Glyph of liberation heals for 4% every time you disengage. Disengage has a base cd of 20 secs and 10 secs if you talent Crouching tiger. It is also exclusive with other disengage glyphs.

Also Hunters also have no defensive cd other than Deterence.

[Geckoo]

Also Hunters also have no defensive cd other than Deterence.

Well, you get to have a tank with you all the times wich is nice

Anyway, i agree with the need to put things in perspective, Celestalon was wrong, but that doesn't mean that suddenly hunters are the new self-healer class. We can also shiv with leeching poison and get a nice instant 5% heal on top of our shitty recuperate and the shitty self-heals from leeching poison, but our main strength in theory is the ability to avoid or reduce damage, not to simply heal it.

[Sturmgewehr86]

Least they could do is make Leeching Poison baseline...

I was pondering about that but i am ambiguous about it.Right now when soloing Warbringers or Old content one killing spree with leeching poison + deep insight and a trinket proc while under the effect of glyphed recupurate tops me up.Imagine this baselined with 100% uptime on feint+ elusiveness in raid.We already have hands down best survivability in the game, they need to do some serious number tweaking if it is to go baseline.

[Feali]

Using shadowboy's combat profile to fill the spot for combat, I've started working on the assassination and subtlety gear sets, here's my results so far:

http://i.imgur.com/FFBVjX0l.png

http://i.imgur.com/p4ANECql.png

Profiles for those interested.
http://www.uploadhosting.co/uploads/...n-results.html
http://www.uploadhosting.co/uploads/...b-results.html

If these hold true, expect another combat expansion!

How is Haste so fucking bad for Sub and Assassination?

[Milocow]

im sad that crit > multistrike > mastery > haste for assassination

[Leih]

I was pondering about that but i am ambiguous about it.Right now when soloing Warbringers or Old content one killing spree with leeching poison + deep insight and a trinket proc while under the effect of glyphed recupurate tops me up.Imagine this baselined with 100% uptime on feint+ elusiveness in raid.We already have hands down best survivability in the game, they need to do some serious number tweaking if it is to go baseline.

What they need to do is make leeching work better for the other specs. Like you say, a KS with leeching poison up and my health goes whoooooosh, all the way up. In comparison, speccing leeching as Assassination or Sub sometimes hardly seems noticeable because of how it works. I'd like to see it retuned so it didn't just heal you off "weapon strikes" only.

[Deleted]

im sad that crit > multistrike > mastery > haste for assassination

According to image is Crit>Mastery>Multistrike>Haste.
Honestly I don't understand why Haste is so bad.

[Feali]

Crit being so high and valuable explains a lot why Blood Elf is considered so good.

- - - Updated - - -

Also: That Sub sim is using Glyph of Disappearance which doesn't work for Sub. That probably would lower the dps more.

[Deleted]

Maybe for T17 2P Bonus? Usually, in first tier, crit is so low that doesn't matter too much. Correct me if I remember wrong.

[Razhiel]

How is recuperate OP? Hunters can spec into it PASSIVELY! With Spirit Bond All they have to do is keep their pet alive, no energy cost, no 5 combo points no nothing.

''Kill Shot now heals the Hunter for 15% of maximum health if it kills the target.
Survivalist is a new passive ability learned by Survival Hunters at level 10.
Survivalist increases the Hunter's chance to Multistrike by 10%. Additionally, the Hunter gains 15% health over 10 seconds after killing a target.''
Now THIS is what I call self-sustainability. Then we also have disengage heal glyph and a small things like chimera shot heal on top of all other existing self-sustainability skills.

I am honestly very surprised Celestalon is calling recuperate OP. Because its really not. Rogues will remain the most shitty class to lvl up due to gaining resources too slow for beginners and dying too fast in low lvl's due to bad self-sustainability.
Their whole design pilosophy has constantly contributed to the exodus of Rogue population, moving on to other classes such as DK, Druid and Hunter.
Least they could do is make Leeching Poison baseline...

I wrote a wall of text, but this pretty much sums it up:

Just to put some things into perspective..

Chimera shot heal is a major glyph that heals for 2% on a 10 sec cd.
Survivalist heals the hunter only on a KB. 15% over 10 secs. - Completely useless in PvE (other than solo'ing) and a very weaker version of Victory Rush.
Spirit bond needs Hunters to talent into it. And currently it doesn't work along with Lone Wolf (Best level 100 talent for MM/SV).
Glyph of liberation heals for 4% every time you disengage. Disengage has a base cd of 20 secs and 10 secs if you talent Crouching tiger. It is also exclusive with other disengage glyphs.

Also Hunters also have no defensive cd other than Deterence.

The bold part is a pretty big deal. Hunters are also the best PvE/Leveling class since the game launched. Period.

And you, as a leveling Rogue, shouldn't need all the self healing the Hunters received (arguably neither do the Hunters imo). If you're having trouble leveling and are dieing a lot, you should take a look at how you're playing the class - because you are doing something wrong.

I am honestly very surprised Celestalon still has a job. He's fucking useless and has no clue.

He doesn't design the game/classes alone, it's been repeated thousands of times before, its a joint effort of their entire team - please stop spreading shit like this on the forums.

[fierydemise]

How is Haste so fucking bad for Sub and Assassination?

For assassination it looks like the additional energy regen from VW leads to naturally very high envenom uptimes, simming with T17N profiles you see a natural envenom interval of 7.3 seconds which works out to ~80% envenom uptime. As anyone whose played high haste assassination on live knows there are heavy diminishing returns on envenom uptime at higher levels of haste which drops the value of haste somewhat. Its also worth remembering that before we got RPPM haste scaling items haste wasn't a particularly good stat for assassination, crit wasn't either but I think higher energy regen has increased the value of SF procs.

For sub I think you are seeing the odd tension between haste and MS, while rupture does much more damage than evis (about 2x) I suspect there might be a detrimental scaling effect, or at least not as strong of a synergistic effect as we have with other stats. Also somewhat interesting to note in the T16N profiles sub is already down to a 15 second effective rupture duration if you remove hemo from the rotation (appears to be a slight ~3% dps increase).

[Ryme]

Also: That Sub sim is using Glyph of Disappearance which doesn't work for Sub. That probably would lower the dps more.

Well caught, with that removed, sub falls behind combat. Graphs above updated.

[Feali]

Well caught, with that removed, sub falls behind combat. Graphs above updated.

So my nightmare comes true. It's Combat again. And with Haste scaling it's gonna be Combat for the whole expansion. Awesome.

[Ryme]

It's worth noting that all I've improved so far for assassination and subtlety is the gearsets they use, the actual ability usage is pretty much as standard.

[Deleted]

Just to put some things into perspective..

Chimera shot heal is a major glyph that heals for 2% on a 10 sec cd.
Survivalist heals the hunter only on a KB. 15% over 10 secs. - Completely useless in PvE (other than solo'ing) and a very weaker version of Victory Rush.
Spirit bond needs Hunters to talent into it. And currently it doesn't work along with Lone Wolf (Best level 100 talent for MM/SV).
Glyph of liberation heals for 4% every time you disengage. Disengage has a base cd of 20 secs and 10 secs if you talent Crouching tiger. It is also exclusive with other disengage glyphs.

Also Hunters also have no defensive cd other than Deterence.

''Self-Sustainability
Another area of gameplay that we polished is how characters are able to sustain their own health, primarily when frequently killing enemies, such as in solo questing.''
Read the bolded part and try again.

Self-sustainability is where hunters shine at very well, aside from druids and dk's being also amazing. But the point remains, Hunters have amazing self-sustainability. Pets alone offer a comfort that is unique to the hunter class, your denial of it only shows ignorance.
The reason I posted this is for the sake of Quality of Life improvements for the rogue class. Before you are so quick to dismiss valid concerns, you need to sit straight and think why the most self-sustainable classes such as Druids/Hunters are so highly populated within the world of warcraft. This is not coincedence, because these kinds of QoL concerns is what deters players to specific side of things.

- - - Updated - - -

So my nightmare comes true. It's Combat again. And with Haste scaling it's gonna be Combat for the whole expansion. Awesome.

To be fair, Combat is always slow to catch up at start of xpansion cycles. So if we see combat being competitive, its a good thing.

[Ryme]

To be fair, Combat is always slow to catch up at start of xpansion cycles. So if we see combat being competitive, its a good thing.

Not for those looking to drop the change things up after 14 months of it being superior

[Grayjoy]

I really would be disappointed if combat were to be ahead going into the expansion, since that implies it will be dominant for the entirety of it. I can deal with lackluster talent trees and lack of dev attention, but not three years of combat.