Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[TZucchini]

And other peer reviewed studies haven't. That's the problem. Looking at the raw data from WHO and the Small Arms Survey, there's not any clear correlation there. Countries with higher firearm ownership trend only slightly higher than those with lower, and they do so very inconsistently. There are far too many other factors.

Which is why raw data really isn't a great indicator. Studies that control for poverty, education, police per 100,000, etc., find clear, significant correlations between ownership levels and homicide rates.

[Ghostpanther]

Sure. Let's argue on those merits. But let's not forget that:

As if any of us have argued that. :P Even the right for Freedom of Speech is limited. But it is a right some local government can not take away on their own accord. As this was made clear in Chicago and DC. The right to keep and bear arms is a pretty solid right which has been upheld by Scotus. The only way this right will ever be amended or take away is if the majority of the States agree it should be. Not the majority in some sections of the nation.

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Yes, that's the correct wording. Highest firearm homicide rate. One of the highest homicide rates among developed nations.

Which if anything, would encourage some to want to arm themselves. But anyway, it really makes no difference what the rate is. It is a right guaranteed by the Constitution and until that is taken away, some will exercise their right and own a gun.
Europe or wherever else in the world can run their societies the best they feel is necessary. Meanwhile back in the US.....my gun is by my side at night when I go to sleep. Why? Because I damn well can. You choose not to own or use a gun. Then that is your choice. I will never criticize anyone for making that choice.

Merry Christmas.

[Tinykong]

TIL: Highest homicide rate among developed Nations = Great!

You wouldn't be comparing raw data again, would you?

Pretty much what I've come to expect from you, Tiny.

Why would we expect anything less from an anti-gun paranoid? You're scared of guns, we get it. You just can't deal with knowing they are out there, stored unsafely, in the hands of private citizens.

[lockedout]

Yes, that's the correct wording. Highest firearm homicide rate. One of the highest homicide rates among developed nations.

So which one. Firearm homicide or homicide?

[Tinykong]

So which one. Firearm homicide or homicide?

Firearm homicides*

*among developed nations
*without controlling for anything
*can't compare raw data and draw the conclusion that access to firearms is cause

[One-Eyed Jack]

Have any of you ever experienced a home invasion robbery? I have. The Police took 10 minutes to set a perimeter, send in a team of officers, and save me. In that time, the bad guys could of easily unloaded 10 clips of ammunition (figuratively speaking). I did not have a weapon at the time (this was almost a month ago) and since then I have armed myself with a 9mm Beretta. I don't trust the police anymore safeguarding my life when they seem to be more concerned catching and locking up the bad guys. This occurred in Eugene OR. I was cowering in a corner with a #$%$ bat with the door locked to my bedroom waiting for the police to arrive when my roommate was in the common area of our home experiencing the armed robbery. The men who committed the crime are still on the run and I am currently working with law enforcement to help catch them. I felt POWERLESS cowering in a corner with a baseball bat waiting for police to arrive. YES , I WILL KEEP MY #$%$ GUN AS A TOOL FOR PROTECTION. Just because we live in the 21st century referring to an age of infinite information does not safeguard you from crime or psychopaths. If anything, I feel sorry for people having to rely government and law enforcement agencies for safety. You are probably in fact less safe if you do not own any sort of firearm.

[Ghostpanther]

Have any of you ever experienced a home invasion robbery? I have. The Police took 10 minutes to set a perimeter, send in a team of officers, and save me. In that time, the bad guys could of easily unloaded 10 clips of ammunition (figuratively speaking). I did not have a weapon at the time (this was almost a month ago) and since then I have armed myself with a 9mm Beretta. I don't trust the police anymore safeguarding my life when they seem to be more concerned catching and locking up the bad guys. This occurred in Eugene OR. I was cowering in a corner with a #$%$ bat with the door locked to my bedroom waiting for the police to arrive when my roommate was in the common area of our home experiencing the armed robbery. The men who committed the crime are still on the run and I am currently working with law enforcement to help catch them. I felt POWERLESS cowering in a corner with a baseball bat waiting for police to arrive. YES , I WILL KEEP MY #$%$ GUN AS A TOOL FOR PROTECTION. Just because we live in the 21st century referring to an age of infinite information does not safeguard you from crime or psychopaths. If anything, I feel sorry for people having to rely government and law enforcement agencies for safety. You are probably in fact less safe if you do not own any sort of firearm.

I am glad it turned out ok for everyone there. Now remember to store your gun in a safe place and practice with it. Like any tool, a person needs to understand and operate it in a safe manner. And yeah, a baseball bat is not much of a defense against a intruder who is armed with a gun , knife or is physically stronger then you are. Like the old saying, " God created man, but Samuel Colt made them equal. "

[Ghostpanther]

Not sure why you claim you'd feel safer with a gun. What would you have done with the gun? Shot someone? Get shot? Get your roommate shot? You got robbed, you're still alive, be glad for that? Would your roommate have felt safer knowing you had a gun?

I remember a case a while ago where it was young police officers commiting an armed robbery, so you're at least right about not trusting the cops. The US constitution gives people the right to bare arms to protect themselves against police and government, not so much so you could gun down criminals yourself.

Bull. Even the US Supreme Court has ruled the right to keep and bear arms can be used as a right for self defense against any threat. Learn about facts before you make such a statement. Stop and think, back in 1776, North America was still a pretty wild place. With raids by Indian tribes along the frontier happening. And every attempt by any local government to remove that right has been shot down by the US Supreme Court. And besides if the Government wanted to come arrest you, there is no way in hell you could stop them.

[enragedgorilla]

Not sure why you claim you'd feel safer with a gun. What would you have done with the gun? Shot someone? Get shot? Get your roommate shot? You got robbed, you're still alive, be glad for that? Would your roommate have felt safer knowing you had a gun?

I remember a case a while ago where it was young police officers commiting an armed robbery, so you're at least right about not trusting the cops. The US constitution gives people the right to bare arms to protect themselves against police and government, not so much so you could gun down criminals yourself.

SO he should just cower in a corner?
That is your "remedy" for violence.

Be the vic and be THANKFUL you are alive.
By that measure anyone who survived a death/forced labor camp should just be happy they survived.

Instead of being proactive and making sure you have the tool (s) needed to best protect yourself ?

Be the victim and be thankful they didn't harm or kill you.

Not no, not hell no ...but Hell the F NO!

Having a firearm is having a tool.
Knowing how to use it and being willing to use it in defense of your life is not and will never be a bad thing.
A firearm is a deterrent in a best case scenario and life saving equipment in a worst case scenario.

[TwoNineMarine]

Have any of you ever experienced a home invasion robbery? I have. The Police took 10 minutes to set a perimeter, send in a team of officers, and save me. In that time, the bad guys could of easily unloaded 10 clips of ammunition (figuratively speaking). I did not have a weapon at the time (this was almost a month ago) and since then I have armed myself with a 9mm Beretta. I don't trust the police anymore safeguarding my life when they seem to be more concerned catching and locking up the bad guys. This occurred in Eugene OR. I was cowering in a corner with a #$%$ bat with the door locked to my bedroom waiting for the police to arrive when my roommate was in the common area of our home experiencing the armed robbery. The men who committed the crime are still on the run and I am currently working with law enforcement to help catch them. I felt POWERLESS cowering in a corner with a baseball bat waiting for police to arrive. YES , I WILL KEEP MY #$%$ GUN AS A TOOL FOR PROTECTION. Just because we live in the 21st century referring to an age of infinite information does not safeguard you from crime or psychopaths. If anything, I feel sorry for people having to rely government and law enforcement agencies for safety. You are probably in fact less safe if you do not own any sort of firearm.

I'm glad you are alright. Definitely take Ghosts advice and learn the weapon and ensure you can use it accurately under stress. Being the victim is no fun.

I live about an hour north of you in Vancouver, WA.

[One-Eyed Jack]

Rochana, I would like for you to experience what I experienced then decide for yourself how you as an individual would handle the situation. With all due respect, your opinion is flawed and that is why I own a weapon. You can rely on the government for safety; next time I'll rely on my Beretta 9mm with hollow point ammunition.

There is no use in arguing with someone with a polar philosophy on the matter. And yes Rochana, if the bad guy hypothetically comes into my room, I have no problem ending his life. Better him to be in the ground rather than leeching off taxpayer dollars.

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I'm glad you are alright. Definitely take Ghosts advice and learn the weapon and ensure you can use it accurately under stress. Being the victim is no fun.

I live about an hour north of you in Vancouver, WA.

I have been an avid hunter for years, am an eagle scout and have taken numerous courses on hunter and gun safety. Number one rule, always act as if a gun is loaded and realize that it is not a toy but a tool for defense.

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Not sure why you claim you'd feel safer with a gun. What would you have done with the gun? Shot someone? Get shot? Get your roommate shot? You got robbed, you're still alive, be glad for that? Would your roommate have felt safer knowing you had a gun?

I remember a case a while ago where it was young police officers committing an armed robbery, so you're at least right about not trusting the cops. The US constitution gives people the right to bare arms to protect themselves against police and government, not so much so you could gun down criminals yourself.

I want you to cower in a corner with a baseball bat to gain the experience and knowledge to realize guns are tools for good, and abusive for evil. Criminals love unarmed victims, makes it easier to get away with crime.

[One-Eyed Jack]

Cat got your tongue Rochana? Or are you just gonna spout off some emotionally charged rhetoric in response?

[Rooflesstoofless]

There never was a need to. And never will be. Except our government would follow the crazy idea to allow criminal gun vendors, as like those who finance the NRA, to sell guns to everyone.

Gun vendors like Heckler and Koch...from Germany?

Thats the responsibility of the police. And they do a real great job here in germany.

Yes, the police in Germany have quite the history of defending a disarmed German populous.

[NineSpine]

Gun vendors like Heckler and Koch...from Germany?


Yes, the police in Germany have quite the history of defending a disarmed German populous.

And the armed citizens of America have quite the history of using those guns to keep their slaves in line. See, everyone can play this game!

[TwoNineMarine]

@One-Eyed Jack

That is excellent! I'm glad you know what you are doing! I wish you the very best.

[NineSpine]

Rochana, I would like for you to experience what I experienced then decide for yourself how you as an individual would handle the situation. With all due respect, your opinion is flawed and that is why I own a weapon. You can rely on the government for safety; next time I'll rely on my Beretta 9mm with hollow point ammunition.

There is no use in arguing with someone with a polar philosophy on the matter. And yes Rochana, if the bad guy hypothetically comes into my room, I have no problem ending his life. Better him to be in the ground rather than leeching off taxpayer dollars.

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I have been an avid hunter for years, am an eagle scout and have taken numerous courses on hunter and gun safety. Number one rule, always act as if a gun is loaded and realize that it is not a toy but a tool for defense.

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I want you to cower in a corner with a baseball bat to gain the experience and knowledge to realize guns are tools for good, and abusive for evil. Criminals love unarmed victims, makes it easier to get away with crime.

The problem is that a lack of reasonable restrictions on gun ownership facilitates criminals obtaining weapons. Extremist gun advocates argue argue for policies which do nothing to help legitimate gun owners to have guns, but do help people who shouldnt have guns to get them.

[One-Eyed Jack]

Criminals will always find a way to obtain a weapon. The technology is not going anywhere because the knowledge to manufacture endures. It's safer in my humble opinion to just allow responsible citizens to defend themselves against a threat. Simply arguing that all guns should disappear or government should have stricter regulations will not solve the problem. Rather, arguable, it only enhances the problem.

[NineSpine]

Criminals will always find a way to obtain a weapon. The technology is not going anywhere because the knowledge to manufacture endures. It's safer in my humble opinion to just allow responsible citizens to defend themselves against a threat. Simply arguing that all guns should disappear or government should have stricter regulations will not solve the problem. Rather, arguable, it only enhances the problem.

Except for the fact that criminals have a very hard time obtaining guns in countries that have tougher gun restrictions, including those which generally allow ownership but have things like strict licensing and registration. That's just a fact. It's not a matter of debate. The idea that people just get guns anyway is completely at odds with reality. This isn't a matter of competing theories or different worldviews. It's a matter of facts. You can choose to ignore these facts in favor of your pet talking points, but it only goes to show how you have to engage in delusion to keep propping up these ideas.

Reasonable restrictions on gun ownership do not stop legitimate gun owners from obtaining them.

[lockedout]

Reasonable restrictions on gun ownership do not stop legitimate gun owners from obtaining them.

We already have reasonable restrictions.

[NineSpine]

We already have reasonable restrictions.

No we don't. Licensing, registration, and a ban on private sales is what reasonable regulation looks like. Anything less is a waste of time.