Mythic Maidens Stats - boat order/setup, nuke target, other stuff

[Deleted]

dang TIL my group are a bunch of shitlords. We dodge turrets fine. This method is much less stressful and much easier overall. As long as the boss dies who cares what the strat was? (excluding exploitation)

You can employ the strat without being shitlords, but the point here is that NOT doing it makes more sense for any group that can dodge turrets just fine. You're literally prolonging the time Marak is alive completely unnecessarily for no real tradeoff, provided you can dodge turrets.

[Cherle]

You can employ the strat without being shitlords, but the point here is that NOT doing it makes more sense for any group that can dodge turrets just fine. You're literally prolonging the time Marak is alive completely unnecessarily for no real tradeoff, provided you can dodge turrets.

The tradeoff is you get to do a less stressful fight. We just wanna get through the farm bosses w/o using too much brain power so we have more of it for progress .

[Deleted]

The same tank who is on marak always is the first target to soak blood ritual for the fight. There used to be a mechanic in the DJ saying something about a 400% damage taken debuff but this never made it live (or if it did it was changed fast). That isn't the case and so the same tank is always on him.

So for your example lets say ritual 1 goes on mage. Rogue jumps in. Tank is obviously in. So 3 people with debuff. Tank can never be the primary target. As you stated, BOTH the mage and rogue are viable targets at this point and so it can jump on either the mage or the rogue. The advantage to this is that even if they both keep alternating because of RNG, the rogue will never die and will never need help because of feint. The mage on the other hand is always going to need help. However, a simple shield is usually not enough for a class like a mage and so whatever ones the rogues gets can let more cooldowns be used on the mage. To be truthful, though, with the ilvl buff and a decent CoW, this isn't an issue at all. Its just nice to have when there starts being 4 or 5 things the disc priest has to be watching for for a rogue to take care of it him/herself.

If you want to force the rogue to get every blood ritual from then on out, what you do is have your primary target (say its the mage) run 45 yards away from marak into the direct opposite corner (basically). Because the range of blood ritual is 45 yards, if your mage is in that corner, the only other viable target is the rogue. Thus the rogue gets the rest of the blood rituals. And once ~3 go out on the rogue him/herself, the debuff will finally fall of the mage and he will not have to run in and out 45 yards. The rest will be auto forced onto the rogue.

Again, its up to you if you want to do this. There are enough personals / simple cds available such that even if it is a poor class who doesn't have many defensives, you should be okay. We always just had our rogue run in and then he got whatever ones he could through rng (with shields on the target). But if you want to eliminate a possible few deaths, then you can do the above thing. Again, remember that you can use every single CD (hos, PS, purity (if you went), etc) for these rituals because the only other time you need them in the fight is sub 20% for the marak tank. As for the dispel debuff, a shield is ALWAYS good enough but I suppose you would want to save one small CD for the shield person (or personal it). And of course the mage can dodge the first blood ritual completely with a late greater invis (unless if you absolutely want to save it for aim during a bomb phase but considering the first blood ritual comes out ~ at least 1.5 minutes before the next bomb phase, you can absolutely invis it and have it up) but this is another issue.

thanks a lot man, that will save us some time tomorrow i guess.

I just checked the logs and realised that i take quite some dmg from the non physical part of the bloodritual since i ll have the debuff (i m a warrior tank) The physical dmg i take as tank seems not to increase, as you wrote, but the magical part hits me with like 300 k as soon as i have the debuff (+ the 150 k from the physical part), this could get somewhat problematic since it comes in pretty frequently.

[T18Z]

The tradeoff is you get to do a less stressful fight. We just wanna get through the farm bosses w/o using too much brain power so we have more of it for progress .

How is dodging balls of fire that move at a snails pace from 30 yards away for 12s x2 more stressful than avoiding bombs that will practically kill you when combined with Maraks damage if you get hit?

Rapid fire is literally never an issue, the only time it's problematic is when combined with bombs, which doesn't happen in the last phase. Penetrating shot is trivial with a paladin in the raid, and even if you don't have one there are a variety of classes (hunter, priest, mage) that can avoid having to deal with the mechanic whatsoever. If timed correctly with good dps you'll only get 1 penetrating shot and 2 turrets before Marak is dead. Turrets have what, 2.2M each? They die in like 12-14 seconds, meanwhile the mini boss on the 3rd ship has over 15M.

I kinda agree the 3rd boat strategy results in a rather fruitless elongation of Marak.

[Cherle]

How is dodging balls of fire that move at a snails pace from 30 yards away for 12s x2 more stressful than avoiding bombs that will practically kill you when combined with Maraks damage if you get hit?

Rapid fire is literally never an issue, the only time it's problematic is when combined with bombs, which doesn't happen in the last phase. Penetrating shot is trivial with a paladin in the raid, and even if you don't have one there are a variety of classes (hunter, priest, mage) that can avoid having to deal with the mechanic whatsoever. If timed correctly with good dps you'll only get 1 penetrating shot and 2 turrets before Marak is dead. Turrets have what, 2.2M each? They die in like 12-14 seconds, meanwhile the mini boss on the 3rd ship has over 15M.

I kinda agree the 3rd boat strategy results in a rather fruitless elongation of Marak.

To each their own I guess.

[Deleted]

tried 3 boat strat, sorka boat is a pita. we gave up after like 3 tries, Marak is only alive for like 20 seconds if you have everyone down and you full nuke her with cds, bl and pots. We didn't ignore any turrets to put all Ranged on her at the start of the phase, but ideally you should be doing that. It's really not necessary to do the 3rd boat, just makes p3 excessively long and if you get hit by a bomb you're pretty much guaranteed to die from marak's constant aoe damage, at least if you get hit by 1 turret tick you'll probably survive, esp after the ilvl buff.

source: I'm bad and took 1.43mil damage from turrets and didn't come close to dying, albeit I never went above 1 stack.

[Tojara]

Lots of ways to do it, and I think it ultimately comes down to your composition. I think people trying to say their way is better by far are sort of short sighted, all of them work and there really is no wrong way to do it. We were perfectly capable of doing either strategy, but went with the 3 boat nuke strategy in the final hour of attempts one evening. If you have a good composition for Sorka's boat, I'd suggest it. If you also have players who are good at bomb phases, the 3 boat strategy is pretty solid.

3 boats makes your kill slightly longer but if you do it right there is zero risk in the last phase. Maraks raid wide damage is a non-factor, and on our kill she literally pulsed 2-3 times max over the 35-40 seconds it took us to kill her. That means there is zero damage to the boat team and zero damage to the raid. You only have to deal with dark hunt and a convulsive shadows or two, and if you're at that point in the encounter your group should be pretty good at dodging bombs. We basically kill Marak and Sorka before Ga'ran becomes active again.

To each their own though. We had lots of close attempts prior to the 5 iLvL change doing the two boat method but felt like it was fairly hectic in the last phase. While Marak dies fast regardless, keep in mind that there is a layer of RNG depending on where turrets decide to spawn and having your tornado person die can quickly cause the encounter to spiral out of control. We went with control, and would rather wait 45 seconds to a minute to force a third boat rather than deal with a sometimes sloppy P3. The encounter is 9-10 minutes regardless, and we just want to kill the boss as quickly as possible.

If you have good boat teams and know all 3 boats, I personally feel it's safer to do the 3 boat strategy. If you suck at one of the boat phases it's probably best to do the two boat strategy and dodge turrets to do the best of your ability. For our guild dodging bombs while dealing with dark hunt and nuking Marak/Sorka proved more consistent than dodging turret fire.

It's pretty easy to come on here and state that 'x' mechanic is easy and therefore nobody should have problems with it. Fast stampers are easy to, but most guilds use their lust and potions on Hanz/Franz at that point even though it's 'easy'. Lots of ways to do this boss, and honestly it comes down to your raid and composition. I'm sure some guilds do two boat while sending Ga'ran up first because dealing with take aim with few ways to cheese it on the second bombardment is pretty sketchy.

Faster kills are going to come from the 2 boat strategy, if it's a clean kill. People citing that dealing with Marak for a longer time during bombardment is unnecessary damage are sort of wrong though. You just chain personal CDs, and any externals on that tank. Like I mentioned, our tank made Marak pulse a couple times over nearly 40 seconds. Full absorbs (PW:Shield CoW) don't trigger the raid wide damage pulse. Combine it with externals and an avoidance tank, and her 100 energy ability might as well not be there.

[Deleted]

It's pretty easy to come on here and state that 'x' mechanic is easy and therefore nobody should have problems with it. Fast stampers are easy to, but most guilds use their lust and potions on Hanz/Franz at that point even though it's 'easy'. Lots of ways to do this boss, and honestly it comes down to your raid and composition. I'm sure some guilds do two boat while sending Ga'ran up first because dealing with take aim with few ways to cheese it on the second bombardment is pretty sketchy.

Because I think that problem of people who wrote that it's pointless to do 3 boat strategy is that they don't have any major role in the raid. Ofc it's pretty easy to dodge turrents from the perspective of simple heal or dps. But you must remember that in 2 boat str. you have other major issuses in <20% part of the fight :

- u need very good disco priest (same grp don't have even 1 and they also want to kill this boss and in this situation only 3 boat str. is viewable), because he/she need to shield dash soakers, blood ritual soaker, man with sorka debuff and it's good if also some shields are placed on marak tank.

- if someone from the grp above die the fight pretty fast can change into choas for example if dash soaker dies and u don't handle it fast u will have tornado in the middle of the platform and stun+ turret = death

- u need to have paladins who HoP people with penetrating and HoS people with sorka debuff

- people with bombardment need to kite it in such a way that it didn't hit anyone else

- and dodoging turrents also make dps lower if u have more casters in the raid grp (u have grps where u don't have 2 hunters and 4 blanace dudus)

[Tojara]

Because I think that problem of people who wrote that it's pointless to do 3 boat strategy is that they don't have any major role in the raid. Ofc it's pretty easy to dodge turrents from the perspective of simple heal or dps. But you must remember that in 2 boat str. you have other major issuses in <20% part of the fight :

- u need very good disco priest (same grp don't have even 1 and they also want to kill this boss and in this situation only 3 boat str. is viewable), because he/she need to shield dash soakers, blood ritual soaker, man with sorka debuff and it's good if also some shields are placed on marak tank.

- if someone from the grp above die the fight pretty fast can change into choas for example if dash soaker dies and u don't handle it fast u will have tornado in the middle of the platform and stun+ turret = death

- u need to have paladins who HoP people with penetrating and HoS people with sorka debuff

- people with bombardment need to kite it in such a way that it didn't hit anyone else

- and dodoging turrents also make dps lower if u have more casters in the raid grp (u have grps where u don't have 2 hunters and 4 blanace dudus)

I'm not really alluding to your post as much as I'm alluding to the numerous posts in this thread lol. There are people who trash on 3 boat strategy, and those that are trashing on the 2 boat strategy. My post is more or less indicating that both strategies are perfectly viable ways to do the encounter, and it largely depends on the composition at hand in addition to how you approach the boss. I've only gotten kills doing the 3 boat strategy, but we could kill it either way. We just prefer to do the 3 boat because of how much more consistent it makes the last phase and that we have a good composition for pretty much all the boats. Not all guilds have a lot of paladins, hunters or druids.

[nightfalls]

Having done a "safer" 3 boat strategy, I can definitely say it works very well.

That said, I'm not sold on it being "the best" or even "the easiest" way to do the fight. You trade having to do an additional boat and learn it, plus of course you draw the fight out longer. That said, P2 is a complete joke if handled correctly with 3 boats, but from what I am hearing (bombardment is inconsequential since the only abilities that actually make it semi-"hard" are the ones from Garan - Rapid Fire, Penetrating Shot), it's not that bad even with all 3 bosses either.

I guess what I will say is that if you have fewer Paladins and/or classes that can drop/immune Penetrating Shot, you may want to consider doing 3 boats to minimize bad shots going off in P2 versus doing the "main" 2 boat strategy, since doing it that way does depend on you taking as few as possible in the last phase.

[Empulsiv3]

SO much useful information tysm

[Tehterokkar]

The hard part of the fight is getting to 20% with everyone alive(many random deaths to debuff and rapid fire). Last 20% is a joke with the strat we used.

Boat order: 1) Sorka, 2) Marak, 3) Ga'ran

We did Sorka first since it's by far the hardest boat of the three(and requires 3 Druids, 1 as resto pref. to ease DPS check), so we wouldn't possibly have to spend 5-6 minutes just to get to Sorka's boat to wipe if we did Marak first. DPS is not an issue on this boss, so single-targetting Sorka on pull is what you will do to ensure she is the lowest one.

By the time 2nd ship is done, all bosses should be around 35%, just cleave them all down to 25%, then work slightly on Marak & Sorka to bring them down. Goal is to have them both at 21% just as Admiral Ga'ran goes to her ship. Then you just go to ham with Bloodlust and all CDs, nuke Marak down 1st and by the time Admiral's ship is done, Sorka should be at 5% or less.

If you want idea on how easy this strat is, we had ~90 wipes on 100%-20%, about 3 wipes in sub-20%(all of them were sort of "limping on" with tank dead or a few DPS dead). We killed the boss on the first attempt we managed to kill Marak essentially. The boss is a joke in 20% with this strat.

[Deleted]

The hard part of the fight is getting to 20% with everyone alive(many random deaths to debuff and rapid fire). Last 20% is a joke with the strat we used.

Boat order: 1) Sorka, 2) Marak, 3) Ga'ran

We did Sorka first since it's by far the hardest boat of the three(and requires 3 Druids, 1 as resto pref. to ease DPS check), so we wouldn't possibly have to spend 5-6 minutes just to get to Sorka's boat to wipe if we did Marak first. DPS is not an issue on this boss, so single-targetting Sorka on pull is what you will do to ensure she is the lowest one.

By the time 2nd ship is done, all bosses should be around 35%, just cleave them all down to 25%, then work slightly on Marak & Sorka to bring them down. Goal is to have them both at 21% just as Admiral Ga'ran goes to her ship. Then you just go to ham with Bloodlust and all CDs, nuke Marak down 1st and by the time Admiral's ship is done, Sorka should be at 5% or less.

If you want idea on how easy this strat is, we had ~90 wipes on 100%-20%, about 3 wipes in sub-20%(all of them were sort of "limping on" with tank dead or a few DPS dead). We killed the boss on the first attempt we managed to kill Marak essentially. The boss is a joke in 20% with this strat.

What sort of tanking strats did you use for minimizing raid damage?

We are thinking of using some sort of tricks with 'die by the sword' with some non tank warriors. Is that a good option you think?

[Deleted]

What sort of tanking strats did you use for minimizing raid damage?

We are thinking of using some sort of tricks with 'die by the sword' with some non tank warriors. Is that a good option you think?

Completely pointless as of current iLvls. Get a disc priest, have them spam CoW on the tank, use maybe 1-2 externals in sequence and Marak dies without a single pulse going off. DBTS was worth doing during the first 3 weeks or so with the iLvls people had then but at this point it's completely unnecessary overcomplication of a very simple fight.

[Tehterokkar]

What sort of tanking strats did you use for minimizing raid damage?

We are thinking of using some sort of tricks with 'die by the sword' with some non tank warriors. Is that a good option you think?

There is no raid damage in this fight, only a few people should take damage really(Tanks, Blade Dash baiter and Blood Ritual baiter).

Unless you mean last 20% with Sanguine Strikes from Marak, we just CD'd through it(Barriers, Devo).

Our comp was this:
1x DK Tank
1x Paladin Tank

2x Disc Priest
1x Holy Paladin
1x Resto Druid

1x Warr DPS
1x Rogue
1x Enha Shaman
1x Paladin DPS
2x DK DPS
1x Monk DPS

2x Hunter
2x Mage
1x Warlock
2x Balance Druid

Balanced comp between melee and range is suggested, the fight doesn't really favor either.


Our boat teams were:

Sorka:
2x Balance Druid
2x Hunter
1x Resto Druid
Strat here is to just chain CC the pack of adds with Mass Entanglement. You get an addon that tracks duration+CD of ME(Exorsus Raid Tools is pretty amazing) and then just call Mass Roots in order. You ONLY refresh mass roots when last one is about to expire, the resto druid will take care of any adds spawning between mass roots by using single root when the add is kited into the pile. It took us quite many attempts to get right, but it's so simple when you figure it out.

Marak:
2x Hunter
1x Enha Shaman
1x Ret Pala
1x Rogue
1x DK Tank
No healer, only tank that can't do this is Warrior. We had our Retri Pala use both Sacs during this boat plus LoH. Also the Enha Shaman did AG and Hunters had their Spirit Beasts to cast Spirit Mend on tank.

Ga'ran:
2x DK DPS
1x Monk DPS
1x Enha Shaman
1x Rogue
1x Resto Druid
Goal here is to put the worst execute/burst classes into boat. Also our Enha Shaman used Bloodlust on the boat to make sure it dies in time(I called it so they would make it, since it was our first time getting this far, didn't want to wipe because of ship).

As for general strat, 1 Disc for this fight is a MUST. That Disc will be using Clarity of Will + PW:S on the Blade Dash and Blood Ritual targets to make them not die essentially(as the damage they take is +450k per cast). Suggested class for Blade Dash is a Warlock due to their naturally higher health pool.

When you hit 30 Energy(a bit after 1st boat is done), you will want to insta-dispel the debuff when it appears, the way to do this is look at your boss mods as a healer and see which target will get the debuff(as Sorka will target the person with a cast bar, so it's easy to figure out who gets it), then use PW:S on them and they are fine. And for the aim line, soak it everytime it goes on a class that can't invis/feign/guise it. Save BoPs for 2nd Boat bomb phase on the aims and for last 20% when Admiral finally comes down.

[Deleted]

It's an awful strat that only makes sense if your raiders can't dodge turrets for shit. You still get the bombardment patterns, and you have to send strong enough DPS up top that the boat actually dies in time. We tried it once or twice on progress before the iLvl buff just to see what the strat was all about, and in my opinion it is the definition of worthless. All it results in is Marak being alive for fucking ages and DPS cds/hero uptime being wasted on the boat as a crutch for shitlord turret-dodging.

During progression, if you can make the fight easier, why not do it?

These cheese strats are nothing to be ashamed of using. Remember mythic butcher and how everyone started using the cheese pool strat simply because it was more efficient? If Method knew about the butcher pool strat before they killed it they probably would have done it for their world first kill.

[Deleted]

There is no raid damage in this fight, only a few people should take damage really(Tanks, Blade Dash baiter and Blood Ritual baiter).

Unless you mean last 20% with Sanguine Strikes from Marak, we just CD'd through it(Barriers, Devo).

Yeah, that's what I meant.

What sort of tactics do you use to minimize sanguine strikes.

Also, we use a warrior+ healer for the marak boat, but its a bit late to change that out now. Any tips to make it easier?

And how do you configure the exorsus tool? We have a balance druid, a resto druid and a guardian druid who can do sorka boat, and they do but it tends to get a bit haphazard so having something to tell us when to use roots would help.

[Deleted]

as a paladin tank, this kind of shit gets me extra salty. brewmasters are so over the top overpowered it's beyond me why they have not been nerfed yet seeing as it is painfully obvious they need to be looked at before next tier anyway since their scaling is out of control. They just don't take any damage.

It seems that you forgot about paladin tanks during MoP. They didn't get nerfed until SoO and even there they were still one of the best tanks

[Deleted]

My guild also did the 3-boat tactic, it was by far easier than any other tactic that we tried and we one shotted it the first time we had 18 people alive and reached the point. We killed both Marak and Sorka before the boat team jumped down and then finished admiral was a joke. (ignoring the turrets)


We now accually do the same tactic but on the 2nd boat. (we push marak to 20% when the 2nd boat is up) and kill both him and sorka again.
We really didnt want to bother having all 3 there with all the abilities. Its just a pain to deal with to be fair. Why deal with so many more abilities if you can just skip them and make the fight so much easier.

I've yet to hear a good argument against this tactic besides "omg why even play this game if you cant dodge turrets"


PS: we ran with dubble disc spamming clarity of will on the tank tanking marak so there was 0 raid dmg, this made the tactic even more of a joke.

[Deleted]

Yeah, that's what I meant.

And how do you configure the exorsus tool? We have a balance druid, a resto druid and a guardian druid who can do sorka boat, and they do but it tends to get a bit haphazard so having something to tell us when to use roots would help.

You can do that boat by just using single cc's if dps is enough, makes easier to coordinate. We used 2 hunters cc'ing initial adds (icetrap or whatever they are, bit risky and loses few seconds when starting boat compared to mass entanglement), then resto+boomkin+feral each using single roots on next spawning adds. Around that time boss should be dead, any extra or freed adds druids can use mass entanglement or vortex as short emergency cc to win few seconds which is usually enough. Brute-force but works. Resto druid doing max dps (DoC talent?) helps.