Keep LFR out of Legion!

[TheFuse]

I don't think wiping in LFR is a bad thing. And you're right, more often than not LFR is harder than even heroic raiding, but that's just an unavoidable side effect of a match made raid with no quality control. And I think that's okay. Wiping is a part of both raiding and pugging.

If players want faster, easier, and more rewarding runs they should make the jump to normal mode raiding.

Your point doesn't make any sense... lfr doesn't effect raiding no one is making that argument. It is the rest of the content outside of raiding it demolishes.

The fact you can't grasp that after is has been spelled out for you over and over again is a bit troubling...

You change your stance more than Hilary Clinton. LFR takes nothing away from the game. Nothing. The art, the raid design, everything else is already in place to be used from normal+ modes. Your (current) issue is with Blizzard not adding anything else to the game and blaming LFR for it, when LFR has no effect on it.

[kary]

An alternative would be to remove LFR, but nerf Normal to below where it is now (and divide Normal raids into bitesize chunks, like Flex was in SoO). The goal would be to make GF Normal more resistant to toxicity.

Would this serve the current LFR audience? Possibly.

Why would you need that? HFC is already separated as is with the portals, BRF with the wings.

[Punisher069]

Your point doesn't make any sense... lfr doesn't effect raiding no one is making that argument. It is the rest of the content outside of raiding it demolishes.

The fact you can't grasp that after is has been spelled out for you over and over again is a bit troubling...

Except in MoP where there was more stuff to do outside of raids and LFR existed then.

[kary]

Except in MoP where there was more stuff to do outside of raids and LFR existed then.

Such as?
Grind reps through a daily?
That's literally all. And people complained about daily repgrinds.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda thing.

[Deleted]

Except in MoP where there was more stuff to do outside of raids and LFR existed then.

Well there was daileys, but blizzard removed all that because people hate them so much, now look at it

[Seefer]

Except in MoP where there was more stuff to do outside of raids and LFR existed then.

Such as what? Dailies? I mean that's all there really ever has been.

[Deleted]

I don't think wiping in LFR is a bad thing. And you're right, more often than not LFR is harder than even heroic raiding, but that's just an unavoidable side effect of a match made raid with no quality control. And I think that's okay. Wiping is a part of both raiding and pugging.

If players want faster, easier, and more rewarding runs they should make the jump to normal mode raiding.



You change your stance more than Hilary Clinton. LFR takes nothing away from the game. Nothing. The art, the raid design, everything else is already in place to be used from normal+ modes. Your (current) issue is with Blizzard not adding anything else to the game and blaming LFR for it, when LFR has no effect on it.

My stance hasn't changed. Only what you have tried to make my stance has changed...

Dailies were not removed... apexsis zones are 3-4 dailies in one event... What was there to do in mop? Grind reps and valor?

[TheFuse]

Such as?
Grind reps through a daily?
That's literally all. And people complained about daily repgrinds.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda thing.

The biggest issue with MoP's dailies, which was later fixed, was the Golden Lotus choke point and the rep requirements on spending valor.

But there was the Celestial Tournament, pet battles in general, challenge modes, three(?) reps for purely cosmetic rewards, and even an awful vanilla-style rep grind for those who wanted to indulge their inner Korean with Emperor Shao on the Timeless Isle. The old world bosses remained relevant throughout the expansion because of the mount drops as well.

[Glorious Leader]

The biggest issue with MoP's dailies, which was later fixed, was the Golden Lotus choke point and the rep requirements on spending valor.

But there was the Celestial Tournament, pet battles in general, challenge modes, three(?) reps for purely cosmetic rewards, and even an awful vanilla-style rep grind for those who wanted to indulge their inner Korean with Emperor Shao on the Timeless Isle. The old world bosses remained relevant throughout the expansion because of the mount drops as well.

The biggest issue was that they got rid of the tabards. They could have kept the tabards and had th3 dailies and nobody would have gave a fuck. It was.clear they were doing their damnest to disincentivize dungeon farming. They fucking hated wotlk valor grinding for some stupid reason.

[kary]

The biggest issue with MoP's dailies, which was later fixed, was the Golden Lotus choke point and the rep requirements on spending valor.

But there was the Celestial Tournament, pet battles in general, challenge modes, three(?) reps for purely cosmetic rewards, and even an awful vanilla-style rep grind for those who wanted to indulge their inner Korean with Emperor Shao on the Timeless Isle. The old world bosses remained relevant throughout the expansion because of the mount drops as well.

So dailies and mounts and grinding.

We clearly don't have any of those in WoD. nope, nada.

[Glorious Leader]

So dailies and mounts and grinding.

We clearly don't have any of those in WoD. nope, nada.

We don't have dailies and at mists launch the gear behind it was decent. MSV normal level if I recall. This was before mythic mind you so it was as bloated as it was now.

[kary]

The biggest issue was that they got rid of the tabards. They could have kept the tabards and had th3 dailies and nobody would have gave a fuck. It was.clear they were doing their damnest to disincentivize dungeon farming. They fucking hated wotlk valor grinding for some stupid reason.

"I want everything to be easy"

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We don't have dailies and at mists launch the gear behind it was decent. MSV normal level if I recall.

What's that thing in your garrison? With the blue exclamation point?
What are those quests that you do every 24 hours in tanaan called? Fuck, I dunno.

[Glorious Leader]

"I want everything to be easy"

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What's that thing in your garrison? With the blue exclamation point?
What are those quests that you do every 24 hours in tanaan called? Fuck, I dunno.

Please the dailies in mists are not even comparible. The whe zone had them and so did subsequent zones. Draenor for the most part lacked them and it wasn't until Tanaan that we got some back.


As for wanting it easy that's fine. It's not up to you or the developers to define what players want it's only up to them to accommodate or not. If thy choose not too well theirs consequences to that.

[Osmeric]

Why would you need that? HFC is already separated as is with the portals, BRF with the wings.

You'd want that so someone could "queue" for a single wing of the raid without the expectation they'd do more. That means they'd only have to read up on a few bosses before diving in.

[kary]

Please the dailies in mists are not even comparible. The whe zone had them and so did subsequent zones. Draenor for the most part lacked them and it wasn't until Tanaan that we got some back.


As for wanting it easy that's fine. It's not up to you or the developers to define what players want it's only up to them to accommodate or not. If thy choose not too well theirs consequences to that.

Mists dailies still exist. You could buy missives to do more dailies if you so chose. There were several zones that I'm sure you haven't finished yet.
You're referencing farming things in Mist's final patch but I can't reference tanaan? Lmao, double standards much?

The goal was to cut down on the amount of necessary dailies. You could always do more dailies if you really wanted to do dailies that badly. I don't think they need to introduce 25 new dailies every patch.

And yes, the developers didn't want you to just don a tabard and grind through a rep. That was a conscious decision they made. Since you referenced the emperor grind in MoP, I'm sure you would have no problem grinding out the totally optional 100% cosmetic reps in WoD.

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You'd want that so someone could "queue" for a single wing of the raid without the expectation they'd do more. That means they'd only have to read up on a few bosses before diving in.

You can just join a group that's only doing what you've researched, though.

And don't be dishonest with your arguments, noone researches LFR fights beforehand.

[Osmeric]

You can just join a group that's only doing what you've researched, though.

And don't be dishonest with your arguments, noone researches LFR fights beforehand.

Right. LFR is so easy you don't have to research. I'm imagining a normal mode that would benefit from some such research, as it would be harder than LFR currently is.

The splitting of the raid into chunks would make it easier to find one that is doing just one, I suggest.

[kary]

Is "the raid is too large" going to be your excuse from here onward? Asking for a friend.

[A Chozo]

Legion needs LFR AND more dailies. More dailies with story in them, unlike WoD's starting ones, where the only thing that got near that was... The arakkoa of Arak.

The flex/normal mode from Pandaria also was quite nice. Queuing in wings instead of the whole thing made you skip bosses that you already killed.

[Osmeric]

Is "the raid is too large" going to be your excuse from here onward? Asking for a friend.

I'm pointing out it's an impediment, but an avoidable one, to having Normal mode replace LFR. LFR comes in small chunks, and that's likely of some value to LFR's audience.

Surely you're not objecting to me finding possible solutions to the potential negatives of removing LFR?

[khalltusk]

Mists dailies still exist. You could buy missives to do more dailies if you so chose. There were several zones that I'm sure you haven't finished yet.
You're referencing farming things in Mist's final patch but I can't reference tanaan? Lmao, double standards much?

The goal was to cut down on the amount of necessary dailies. You could always do more dailies if you really wanted to do dailies that badly. I don't think they need to introduce 25 new dailies every patch.

And yes, the developers didn't want you to just don a tabard and grind through a rep. That was a conscious decision they made. Since you referenced the emperor grind in MoP, I'm sure you would have no problem grinding out the totally optional 100% cosmetic reps in WoD.

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You can just join a group that's only doing what you've researched, though.

And don't be dishonest with your arguments, noone researches LFR fights beforehand.

I actually did look up LFR fights before hand to see if I needed to know anything. Myth debunked. Not that its really needed but old habits die hard. .

But onto the point of mists dailies, they had a purpose unlocking story as it went along. WoD scrapped that and its a massive shame. It felt like the story was stopped again outside of dungeons and raids once you hit max level, aside the garrison campaign which was lacklustre for the most part. Still glad we had that at least.