Old wow vs new wow

[Deleted]

Personally I think these people are so much invested in the game and have such an emotional attachment to it that they compulsively need to defend it, as acknowledging its current flaws would somehow invalidate all the time they invested in it.

As if the "other side" doesn't do exactly the same, and try to beat down every different opinion with nonsense like "I bet you haven't played back then" etc. Both - as blanket statements - are just incredibly silly, but a lot of people fail to realise that.
Without reading through every post I am absolutely convinced that I would find at least one of those posts in here.

The thing is: It's entirely subjective. There is no right or wrong here.
Personally, I think TBC was absolutely awful compared to MoP, but I recognise that different people see things differently.

[Speedlance]

The famous private server had 11.5k on pvp server and around 3-4k on pve server online at the same time. How do people still deny how great vanilla was. I do not play nor do I support private servers but using it as fact.
imagine if Blizzard launched vanilla servers again, I bet we could see players into the 100ks.

[Pull My Finger]

The famous private server had 11.5k on pvp server and around 3-4k on pve server online at the same time. How do people still deny how great vanilla was. I do not play nor do I support private servers but using it as fact.
imagine if Blizzard launched vanilla servers again, I bet we could see players into the 100ks.

Suure. It'd be interesting to see how many people would play on those famous private servers if they weren't free. There goes your argument.

[Ielenia]

Yo! I was merely saying that I enjoy vanilla and a lot of other people do too on the private servers. Not because of some nostalgia reason or that it was the "first MMO" when it wasn't, but rather because it's just a lot more fun then retail. That's not a dig at anyone that enjoys WOD, to each their own but IMO vanilla is just much much better.

Usually in these threads the ad hominems come from the opposite direction where people try to create some sort of weird argument like "You like it now but will eventually get bored" or "you think you like it but you really don't" lol.

Not just that. You were also stating your opinion as facts when you said "Almost everyone universally agrees it's better than what's on retail too." That is not a fact. That's a false hyperbolic statement you made up, which would only serve to taunt others with an opposite opinion on the matters. If that was even remotely true, the number of people playing private servers, combined together, would have to be more than double the number of players playing on retail.

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The famous private server had 11.5k on pvp server and around 3-4k on pve server online at the same time. How do people still deny how great vanilla was. I do not play nor do I support private servers but using it as fact.
imagine if Blizzard launched vanilla servers again, I bet we could see players into the 100ks.

Ignoring all legal liabilities of charging a monthly fee on pirate servers, just how many people do you think would still play those illegal servers? I'd guess a lot play on those pirate servers because they're free. And also, because it's free, you don't have that feeling of 'getting as much of your investment as possible', since you aren't investing anything on it, since it's free, so you can log in any time you want, and take as long a break from it as you want without having to keep paying to keep your stuff available at any time.

[Pakmanisgod]

This.

I have a family now. A different job then when I used to raid 4 days a week. I'm not 22 like I was when I started playing in vanilla. I appreciate all the quality of life improvements. I like to log in for a while and do something (something legion seems to be bringing back after WoD). The world of warcraft is fluid and changes all the time... has for 12 years now, get used to it.

[Varitok]

Suure. It'd be interesting to see how many people would play on those famous private servers if they weren't free. There goes your argument.

If it was offical people would definitely play on it, regardless of money, People are probably too scared or don't know how to get a server working so they don't try too. Runescape classic servers do amazingly and it costs a membership to play on those, so why not the same for WoW?

[Lochton]

Because they never played vanilla wow but they envy the ones who did.

I played back then, I don't really miss it. I miss the days of it feeling new and challenging, but times change and other things feel new - sadly at times not as challenging. People who vow that Vanilla/Classic was the best and apparently always are, are in my opinion, leaving out some things from the equation.

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If it was offical people would definitely play on it, regardless of money, People are probably too scared or don't know how to get a server working so they don't try too. Runescape classic servers do amazingly and it costs a membership to play on those, so why not the same for WoW?

Have a slight feeling that people don't wish to pay for them though. And I sure don't wish that my subscription pays for it to be free either.

[Varitok]

Have a slight feeling that people don't wish to pay for them though. And I sure don't wish that my subscription pays for it to be free either

I mean, there is evidence people would and you know, I pay for WoW anyways right now so what would it hurt for people to play it for free? I like people experiencing it, but thats just my opinion.

[Deleted]

Why is there so much hatred from so many people towards old wow? Anytime someone says they like something about van/bc, they are immediately hit with a storm of "STFU YOU FOOL, TAKE YOUR ROSE TINTED GLASSES OFF, THE GAME SUCKED THEN AND ITS 10000% BETTER NOW. NO I DONT CARE IF THE GAME HAD 4 TIMES AS MANY PLAYERS THEN, IT SUCKED AND EVERYTHING YOU LIKE IS JUST BLIND NOSTALGIA"

I dont get how these people can blindly worship every design choice blizzard makes in new wow, yet hate on the same company for all the old wow design choices.

Personally I think these people are so much invested in the game and have such an emotional attachment to it that they compulsively need to defend it, as acknowledging its current flaws would somehow invalidate all the time they invested in it.

Because people act like it was the best shit ever when it wasn't, it wasn't terrible but the game had flaws back then and people act like the game now is garbage so people reply with the same extreme by calling vanilla garbage back to these people.

As someone who's always enjoyed raiding far more than anything else in this game I much prefer the raids nowadays to vanilla because they are just designed better thanks to experience and better tech though TBC had some great fights I do not miss the bullshit attunements or needing resist gear or having to go back to gear people up in previous raids because all that did was keep me from doing what I want to do in the game.

The classes I play now are also so much more interesting and complex than they were back then and I don't have to put up with farming soul shards or reagents which only served to waste time for me.

I agree that the games gone down hill in terms of non-instanced/group content and it would be cool to have some of that back as long as it's not the pointless crap that only served to waste time before and doesn't affect me wanting to go straight into raids.

[Lochton]

I think people need to realise that whether vanilla was better or not, the game now is catered to a much wider audience. I bet the playerbase would be a lot lower if it still required as much time and effort to play an mmo successfully.

I would have to agree with you there, the chances are high that the numbers wouldn't be as high if they kept the progress of vanilla/classic and slapped on the stories of the other expansions at same pace.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Why is there so much hatred from so many people towards old wow? Anytime someone says they like something about van/bc, they are immediately hit with a storm of "STFU YOU FOOL, TAKE YOUR ROSE TINTED GLASSES OFF, THE GAME SUCKED THEN AND ITS 10000% BETTER NOW. NO I DONT CARE IF THE GAME HAD 4 TIMES AS MANY PLAYERS THEN, IT SUCKED AND EVERYTHING YOU LIKE IS JUST BLIND NOSTALGIA"

I dont get how these people can blindly worship every design choice blizzard makes in new wow, yet hate on the same company for all the old wow design choices.

Personally I think these people are so much invested in the game and have such an emotional attachment to it that they compulsively need to defend it, as acknowledging its current flaws would somehow invalidate all the time they invested in it.

I don't know. I wish I knew. I'm sick of the disdain and hostility towards people who loved the old WoW.

[Eleccybubb]

The famous private server had 11.5k on pvp server and around 3-4k on pve server online at the same time. How do people still deny how great vanilla was. I do not play nor do I support private servers but using it as fact.
imagine if Blizzard launched vanilla servers again, I bet we could see players into the 100ks.

And then watch it drop after getting full t3 and the best pvp titles because the raids would get stale after a while. Even if they gated it it would eventually just stop being fun. The only reason this server has constant players is because it is a progression one and doesn't have all of the content released yet. End of the day the moment you are fully geared and have nothing else to do you will get bored just like people do at the end of the more recent WoW xpacs.

[Deleted]

I mean, there is evidence people would and you know, I pay for WoW anyways right now so what would it hurt for people to play it for free? I like people experiencing it, but thats just my opinion.

I would not want resources that could be used on content for actually paying people to go into content for people who cling to an outdated version - which they also want to play for free.

[Lochton]

I mean, there is evidence people would and you know, I pay for WoW anyways right now so what would it hurt for people to play it for free? I like people experiencing it, but thats just my opinion.

The thing is, blizzard is a company, which means they should have service and support available for their products. The old content isn't support as it is, nor serviced, so you can expect that some skeleton crew is needed for it, which means someone is needed to pay.

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I would not want resources that could be used on content for actually paying people to go into content for people who cling to an outdated version - which they also want to play for free.

Couldn't have said it better.

[Dejablue]

The tide is coming back in. And it is not just WoW that is seeing the surge in popularity of oldschool MMO design.

I won't say where to find them or how, bla bla, but there are private servers with thousands of players on one server. There is one that has upwards of 13,000 players on at peak time in the evenings, they have over 10,000 players on right now. I play on this one and Org looks like ants or roaches swarming. 50+ people on the bank, people running back and forth to the AH, grouping for QUESTS. I have seen countless players that never played vanilla talk about how awesome it is and how much better they like it compared to WoW now.

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Over the last year Everquest released a progression server. That is where they start with vanilla and then once it is cleared they have the server vote on releasing the first expansion, in WoW terms, after Kel Thuzad is kill in Naxx the server votes on if Burning Crusade should be released. They go on through the expansions.

Everquest usually peters out around Gates of Discord(GoD), that is their Cataclysm. Many people stay through but most quit at that point.

This new progression server was so popular for Everquest that they had to open a second server because of login queues...in Everquest...in 2015!

They released a third one now that specifically only allows one account per persons, I guess they track IPs dunno, to prevent multiboxing.

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Black Desert online. I have had SO many old EQ/WOW buddies talk to me about playing BDO because it is so much like old EQ. You have to get a group together and set up a camp and grind mobs to level. The world is open and you can do what you want to level.

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This is what early WoW had. Yea you did not HAVE to group together to camp mobs and level, you could solo, and there were a ton of quests. But a lot of the time it was a lot easier to group up with someone to do those quests.

Vanilla and BC WoW also had camping as a group in terms of farming mats to raid. This meant that at max level, once you are no longer grouping outside of raids to level your XP bar, there was a reason to group up and work together. This continued the socialization.

Attunements can serve the same purpose. The AQ gates opening was only a fail in that the servers crashed. The rest of it was great. We had the top two guilds on my server work together to get their hammers ready. They deputized their guild-mates and then those outside their guild to farm carapaces. I wasn't a hard core raider at the time but I got to be part of it. There was also all of the cloth turn ins. And then the actual event. it was a huge server, super social event. THAT is why it is so fondly remembered. It brought the entire server together.

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Now in WoW, no one needs anyone. Except for Mythic you can pug everything. Farming mats is done alone in your garrison. If you are in a Mythic raiding guild, yous till farm your mats the same way, alone, you simply show up, raid, and log off. It makes sense, it is the path of least resistance. But is it ever boring. Does it ever objectify everyone else into a tool to use to one's own ends.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Why is there so much hatred from so many people towards old wow? Anytime someone says they like something about van/bc, they are immediately hit with a storm of "STFU YOU FOOL, TAKE YOUR ROSE TINTED GLASSES OFF, THE GAME SUCKED THEN AND ITS 10000% BETTER NOW. NO I DONT CARE IF THE GAME HAD 4 TIMES AS MANY PLAYERS THEN, IT SUCKED AND EVERYTHING YOU LIKE IS JUST BLIND NOSTALGIA"

I dont get how these people can blindly worship every design choice blizzard makes in new wow, yet hate on the same company for all the old wow design choices.

Personally I think these people are so much invested in the game and have such an emotional attachment to it that they compulsively need to defend it, as acknowledging its current flaws would somehow invalidate all the time they invested in it.

A) People just like to argue on the internet.

B) There are people who actually LIKE the WoD philosophy of log on, reset your missions, log off, get epics. Those people conversely hate the Vanilla-Wrath gameplay of "Do lots of different things with your ability to progress limited only by your available time."

[Serissa]

Vanilla was good just because it was new and casual friendly (compared to other MMOs). From every other PoV it was horrible trash.

* Horrible gear itemisation - like spirit on EVERY literally EVERY piece of gear. Doesn't matter if it's cloth or leather or mail or plate. There's SPIRIT on EVERY f.cking piece of gear.
* Horrible class and spec balance - wanna play priest? ok you have to roll dwarf. Warrior - night elf. Paladin - you're off-combat buffer and resser. Druid - you're healer. Don't even think to respec or roll "wrong" race otherwise no one will invite you to group/raid.
* No LFG tool - wanna do dungeon but there's not enough people online in your guild? no problem, just waste few hours in trade and maybe you will find 1-2 more people.
* Horrible bugged raids for weeks and months without fixes.

I can continue for a few more pages...

[Varitok]

I would not want resources that could be used on content for actually paying people to go into content for people who cling to an outdated version - which they also want to play for free.

I see your point, I understand it. I know damn well we need more content in game. I just thought maybe it wouldn't take as much resources once completed but I get you. Maybe it would attract more players to WoW somehow? Plus I can play it if I decide not to sub. Also why not make it part of the sub? So you can play Vanilla if you are subscribed?

[Arenis]

Different opinions cause conflict. See vanilla vs retail, republicans vs democrats, liberals vs conservatives, swj vs gamegate, cats vs dogs, shitposters vs admins, yadda yadda.

I think a better point of discussion is as of >why< these discussions keep appearing. And I think because the current version simply does not offer the "old experience" that quite some people held dearly, and not a single other game manages to remake that experience (bar some unstable, unofficial servers).

[Deleted]

I've done LFR, normal and some heroic, It doesn't change, why do you make these things up? Adding an extra ability the boss uses doesn't change the fight drastically, there are still adds you have to kill. There is nothing epic about killing a bosses cronies. Raid design went downhill in WoD, MoP had some better fights and in fights like immersius where you had to kill adds, they atleast lasted 15 seconds and for the most part enchanced the bosses abilities if left unchecked. (I did some of the first wing of SoO on mythic). Look at the Sha of Pride on Mythic with that other wordly realm you go to and have to path through the maze thing to get the golden orbs to get out, It's a nice thing added to the fight that nowadays would have just turned into hitting an add for a minute before dpsing the boss again. I'm not saying WoD didn't have any good bosses but the bad outway the good by far.

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First off, I didn't admit to saying there was much more to do than killing adds and then the boss, I was quoting you and making a joke about it, as in there isn't a lot to do but menial tasts of grabbing an orb before killing an add. I could have been more clear with my quotes.

It seems to me you just don't care at all for any story in the game whatsoever. The reason the trolls are a mystery there is because there aren't much trolls in the area and why did they get here? I don't have to compare it to real life, this is a fantasy game and its a hostile world, making it a mystery as to why they would brave a harsh environment just to settle there of all places.

Why does mystery not equate to story telling? When you watch a movie or tv show does something mysterious and doesn't explain it do you get up in arms and demand they add a narrator to tell you exactly what it means? And for fucks sakes, they had the old god mysteries back in Vanilla its just that they plainly spelled it out so you wouldn't have to speculate anymore, There was the giant sword sticking out of the snail like skeleton in Master's Glaive. The whispers you'd hear in Tiristfall. But we can't have that in Cata so lets just put an old god servants spirit in Master's glaive and call it a day. In vanilla there were mysteries that can make the world feel deeper, make you speculate and wonder. The world could feel more broken up because back then the player was just an adventurer, going from zone to zone and doing what was needed and continuing on, We weren't a chosen one or a general just a person exploring a world that had a lot more going on beneath the surface than originally thought. I'm sorry you can't accept games not telling you every small detail and thats the reason I loved WoW's vanilla world so much it knew how to make a mystery and made people talk with one another over what could be beneath tiristfall.

I'm not a vanilla fanboy, I only leveled on my off time and explored around a lot of the time, I only got serious in WotLK (which is my favourite expansion). I just don't like how stories and world building is handled nowadays, it feels like we can't leave anything to mystery anymore. People can like what they want but the days of that kind of story telling are over in my opinion and It saddens me deeply.

I rarely watch movies and hate TV shows to such an extent that I barely have watched a single episode of any of them entirely. If I want to be told a story, i'd rather read a book.
Mystery doesn't equate to story telling because it springs from a lack of story telling, simple as that, if something is mysterious, it's because you've not been told about it. Something can be willingly mysterious so it can be unveiled later on. That's what is happening over the course of expansions. The old mysteries are slowly getting unveiled, but until the moment you're told about it, you can't know wether something truly has a meaning or the devs mindlessly put it in the game.

There aren't much trolls in the area ? Echo islands are not so far, and there's the Shadowprey village in Desolace, considering trolls are the most ancient of the playable races, and dominated the planet back when there was only one continent, i'm not too surprised about seeing them anywhere at all.
They did spell the name of "Old gods" out in Vanilla, you could find it in quest texts and even quest titles. You'd encounter the Twilight Hammer and learn they're the servants of the Old Gods in Darkshore.
The whispers in Tirisfal and the master's glaive were pointless, because there was no way to know if there was any meaning behind these.

WotLK is my favourite expansion, but I still think story telling is better now than it was back then.