I keep hearing the media say Trump supporters are "low information voters"...

[sarahtasher]

Being misinformed does not have much to do with being stupid. It can be a quite self-enforced delusion.

Did you ever heard of Dolchstoßlegende, stab-in-the-back-legend ? Simply said, after 1918, Germany, beaten decisively on the field (if not collapsing) pretended that in fact, she had not been beaten, it was the civilians (Jews, of course) that had ''betrayed''

Everyone that had been on the front knew it was not accurate-but it was a staple of German media well before the Nazis.

[Deleted]

What does that make the people who vote for Sanders because he'll give them free shit?

He was also literally a Marxist communist in hes past and old dogs don't learn new tricks as they say.

[Sodia]

If trump supporters are the stupid ones then what are Hilary supporters? Brain dead vegetables??

[Kogoes]

A couple disturbing things in this post I'd like to highlight...

1. You don't want your "logic" questioned. Why not, exactly? Is it possible that it might not stand up to scrutiny?

and 2. You think winning an election makes the winner "right." Not sure what to say about that. At most a third of America will vote for the winning presidential candidate. Right and wrong aren't up to popular opinion, but even if they were, elections aren't about a majority opinion anyways.

1. I don't want my logic questioned because it's not actually being disscussed. I'm tired of being shoved into a set group of people and called a bigot or a racist or uninformed. If you want to debate me, then debate me but the discussion shouldn't end with a bunch of sound bytes being posted from Youtube or me being called names.

2. If you can't be bothered to participate in the process, however flawed it might be, then you really don't have much room to count yourself as part of it or to complain about it. In an election the majority of people who could be bothered to participate in a process are given choices on whom they wish to lead them. Whether your candidate is capable of winning or not, you should participate and at the very least contribute or else how will change truly take place? What you see with Trump is a record number of new Republican's entering the picture and changing the face of the party as a whole. It's a change taking place because people are being bothered to do something about it. If those people are more willing to stand up and cast votes than there are people who will stand for the democratic candidate, then those people are the majority. They participated. It becomes their decision. If you disagree with it then encourage everyone you know to be involved.

I'm voting for Trump because I would rather vote for someone who might commit a war crime than someone who actually did commit one.

I'm voting for Trump because I realize we're facing a group who's ideals cannot be fought on any level that's currently been taken to date.

I'm voting for Trump because I believe that while he may be corrupt, he's -less- corrupt than the bought and paid for Republicans he's running against and Hillary Clinton.

Trump isn't perfect but so far he hasn't left Americans to die. That's all I need. I cannot in good conscience vote to put a person who abandoned her own people into the Presidency.

I'm not going to be swayed by comedians calling him Donald Drumph. I'm not going to give pause to consider the rantings of a group that blocks ambulances on roadways and puts human life at risk. I am looking at what has happened and what I think will happen and quite frankly? I'll vote based on what I consider to be the lesser of two evils.

[Deleted]

all americn voters are low information voters

[sarahtasher]

You're taking one issue and suggesting the stupidity behind one view point is indicative of a larger philosophy. It's just as stupid to believe a Nordic style socialism is possible in the United States without our fantastic military to protect it. Dismantling the military like progressives want to increase social welfare would incur immediate aggression from non-west friendly nations and an incredible influx of non economically productive people. It's not sustainable and Europe only pulls it off primarily because they're in or are directly protected by NATO. Without the US in NATO, it's meaningless. Yet you don't call those who advocate this unrealistic idea as stupid.

And there is reason to oppose the vast climate change proposals offered by the left. Namely the unproven benefit versus the immediate economic cost. Nor have any climatologists offered an accurate prediction based on their models. In 2007 we were told that the arctic ice would be melted and offer new shipping routes by 2012. That never happened. Being skeptical of something not yet proven is the mark of intelligence, not stupidity.

Who would invade you ? Canada and Mexico ?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Proven by who? You do know Israel has a wall and it does help? Fences and walls most certainly down thru history have proven to help when needed. There are even sections of the southern border which does have some types of walls. But no wall will work without proper patrol of them.

Help against what? Mexicans aren't border hopping these days.

The reason people call Trump voters low information voters is that it has been demonstrated time and time again that Mexicans are no longer border hopping in mass numbers and yet people still support and defend the Great Wall of Drumpf, the biggest waste of tax dollars of the century.

[Acidbaron]

Illegal immigration is impacting those a lot.

Actually if you take a look at the economy in america you notice a lot of it is consumer based almost all of it is, so even with illegal immigration and a better spread of money around so that more can be consumed by all americans, where as not majority of the profits keep floating up, since more money under fewer does not lead to more consumption nation wide.

War on drugs is not an immigration thing, since smuggling would still exist regardless, labs and weed farms would also. If you up border control all you do is increase the risk on trafficking over the border meaning you lower the risk on production in the US, so more money would be focused there, i saw that myself in Belgium when the netherlands decided to stop selling weed legally to foreigners in the border region, now you just see more plantations being found and thus setup.

I find globally the politics around drugs are all wrong and causing a big hole in nation budgets without any real improvement, matter of fact things seem to be getting worse.

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Well in the case of Trump the "real citizens" are the one's that actually have citizenship rather than just being in the country.

That's not the impression i got about his statements surrounding muslims, it was really much a certain type of american that was seen as a real citizen not something based on what documentation they possessed.

[Daelak]

You're taking one issue and suggesting the stupidity behind one view point is indicative of a larger philosophy. It's just as stupid to believe a Nordic style socialism is possible in the United States without our fantastic military to protect it. Dismantling the military like progressives want to increase social welfare would incur immediate aggression from non-west friendly nations and an incredible influx of non economically productive people. It's not sustainable and Europe only pulls it off primarily because they're in or are directly protected by NATO. Without the US in NATO, it's meaningless. Yet you don't call those who advocate this unrealistic idea as stupid.

And there is reason to oppose the vast climate change proposals offered by the left. Namely the unproven benefit versus the immediate economic cost. Nor have any climatologists offered an accurate prediction based on their models. In 2007 we were told that the arctic ice would be melted and offer new shipping routes by 2012. That never happened. Being skeptical of something not yet proven is the mark of intelligence, not stupidity.

Modern economic theory points to the exact opposite. With the shortcomings of acceptable risk in the private sector, public investment can create new markets and new industries for decades to come which would not be possible with private investment alone. Since the US is in the enviable position of being able to steer the entire global economy, be the #1 preferred currency, has an established technology and business infrastructure that brings the best and brightest people in the world to work and innovate, as well as an unlimited credit rating among investors, then you would have to be part of the conservative brain trust to not see that right now is the absolute best and most profitable time for the US, as well as the world, to support a massive public investment effort in human history.

[Damajin]

But, he is anti-free trade in saying it. Do you think Hillary is for free trade? If you do, tell me the differance between this:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...a-trade-reform

And this:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/manufacturing/

Other than saying it, his solutions to free trade are nearly identical to that of Hillary. Be it that Trump wants China to be more welcoming to foreign business and bolstering troops off the coast of China. So, how exactly is Trump against free trade and Hillary for it?

And no, I am not falling for his lawsuits threats being anything, but theater for his supporters. I see it exactly as what it is, thin skin coupled with trying to hide his past.



The issue is not just giving opposition ammo against him, that is actual information on why you should support him or not. As I point out above, he claims to be anti-free trade, but his listed policy is not just the same as Hillary, it's quite litteraly putting guns to China to be more welcoming to free trade. The sort of logic that listing his policy would only give ammo to his opponents, is why his supporters are seen as uninformed. Based on this rational, not only are they not informed, being informed is a threat to his candidacy. Something I agree 100%... The more people know his policy, the more likely they are to become his opponents...

Hillary's site is blocked at work for some reason, can't access it. I'll compare them when I get home.

While I agree that more info helps people decide on who to support what actual candidate follows through on that? Sanders? He's the only one I've seen get into excruciating detail on his policies, the rest of them having watched Presidential, Congressional and Gubernatorial races sunk based on explicitly stated policy points being turned against them by opposition research and the always reliable "neutral third party sources" that are able to prove whatever you're for is the worst idea ever thought of are resorting to general platitudes and the type of things Trump is doing. None of them wants to be Hillary who has to backtrack every week from something she's said or supported and is constantly flipflopping.

You're also overestimating the value of knowing distinct policy points to many voters. There's a fair segment of the population that really don't trust anything that is done in power and more or less want someone sitting there just guarding the controls so no one else does anything stupid with them. They'd rather all this burn to the ground, and with how corrupt and self serving this political machine is it's not without good reason for those people. So in the sense there are some Trump supporters who've crossed over into the Obama/Saul Alinsky territory of politics as a destructive force, which the establishment doesn't like but it makes those people even happier.

[Ghostpanther]

Help against what? Mexicans aren't border hopping these days.

The reason people call Trump voters low information voters is that it has been demonstrated time and time again that Mexicans are no longer border hopping in mass numbers and yet people still support and defend the Great Wall of Drumpf, the biggest waste of tax dollars of the century.

At least you are using a term which is fine. Not that I agree with it, but I respect your opinion because of your choice of the wording.

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Which comes from nationalism, that's the reason the first thing hitler did was demolish his liberal democracy in germany and replace it by what we know as the Nazi regime.

Considering trump defines himself on the right end spectrum and i can't recall of any 'liberal fascist regimes" since it is an oxymoron. Although people often get confused by the term nationalist socialism, thinking it was something liberal in the american political meaning of that word.

It can. But it is something any group or person can have toward others. Once you think you are superior to others, you start down a road which has several branches, one of them is fascism.

[Cthulhu 2020]

At least you are using a term which is fine. Not that I agree with it, but I respect your opinion because of your choice of the wording.

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It can. But it is something any group or person can have toward others. Once you think you are superior to others, you start down a road which has several branches, one of them is fascism.

Thank you. But I will say, a good portion of it wasn't opinion.





Bush apparently LOVED illegal Mexican immigrants.

[Sinyc]

I guess this is the polite way to say "Stupid" right?

Low information usually means uninformed. Although I wouldn't say Trump supporters aren't stupid.

[Celista]

"Stupid is as stupid does". --Forrest Gump

[Ghostpanther]

Actually if you take a look at the economy in america you notice a lot of it is consumer based almost all of it is, so even with illegal immigration and a better spread of money around so that more can be consumed by all americans, where as not majority of the profits keep floating up, since more money under fewer does not lead to more consumption nation wide.

War on drugs is not an immigration thing, since smuggling would still exist regardless, labs and weed farms would also. If you up border control all you do is increase the risk on trafficking over the border meaning you lower the risk on production in the US, so more money would be focused there, i saw that myself in Belgium when the netherlands decided to stop selling weed legally to foreigners in the border region, now you just see more plantations being found and thus setup.

I find globally the politics around drugs are all wrong and causing a big hole in nation budgets without any real improvement, matter of fact things seem to be getting worse.

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There is no way to completely cut down on smuggling. But securing the sourthern border will certainly help in that area. The drugs I am referring to is cocaine. Weed should be legal for medical and personal use anyway. Personal use as in you can grown enough for your own use like you can make your own beer or wine. But not sell it. But that is my personal opinion not shared by many.

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Thank you. But I will say, a good portion of it wasn't opinion.





Bush apparently LOVED illegal Mexican immigrants.

Interesting charts. Thanks for sharing. Is that info based on number of arrests? or actually knowing how many? Plus 11+ million illegal immigrants here is still a real concern. Is the drop due to some leaving or getting deported?

[Acidbaron]

There is no way to completely cut down on smuggling. But securing the sourthern border will certainly help in that area. The drugs I am referring to is cocaine. Weed should be legal for medical and personal use anyway. Personal use as in you can grown enough for your own use like you can make your own beer or wine. But not sell it. But that is my personal opinion not shared by many.

Still don't see how securing the whole southern border would hinder cocaine transportation considering there's a whole ocean between south america and europe and they are still trafficking it with a lot of harbor control, they are pretty clever and creative getting it in. I seriously doubt most is transported in on foot, by tunnels or by cars.

[Ghostpanther]

Low information usually means uninformed. Although I wouldn't say Trump supporters aren't stupid.

Everyone does stupid things at times. No one is perfect in that sense. Does that mean you are a stupid person or a person who made a stupid decision? There is a difference.

[Dadwen]

Right not like the people against him are any smarter either, standing in roads and slapping horses...

[Ghostpanther]

Still don't see how securing the whole southern border would hinder cocaine transportation considering there's a whole ocean between south america and europe and they are still trafficking it with a lot of harbor control, they are pretty clever and creative getting it in. I seriously doubt most is transported in on foot, by tunnels or by cars.

I agree some is not coming across the border, but by boat around the southern border. Which why I said building a wall is only a part of what needs to be done. The wall itself is not going to solve the issue. But cocaine is a horrible drug addiction. It is nothing like weed and needs to be viciously curtained.

[fiestatastic]

There has been numerous polls showing Trump supporters to be less educated. That makes sense to me, it suggests why Trump is popular in some ways.

Also, some people are very susceptible to con men. Typically the low information person really. You can't blame them really.

Trump has said this numerous times ... he's even said it directly to his supportive audience at rallies, where they've cheered at praise toward his broad base of under-educated supporters (referring to them, but hey, stupid is ..).

However, he does also have some informed supporters as well, incredibly rich and selfish ones that are in it for the further exploitation of the other 99%, they're scumbags out to further separate the rich from everyone else, but they are intelligent and well informed.

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There is no way to completely cut down on smuggling. But securing the sourthern border will certainly help in that area. The drugs I am referring to is cocaine. Weed should be legal for medical and personal use anyway. Personal use as in you can grown enough for your own use like you can make your own beer or wine. But not sell it. But that is my personal opinion not shared by many.

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Interesting charts. Thanks for sharing. Is that info based on number of arrests? or actually knowing how many? Plus 11+ million illegal immigrants here is still a real concern. Is the drop due to some leaving or getting deported?

How do some people not know this by now? We've had pretty significant net losses in immigration for the past few years .... people are literally GOING BACK to Mexico for better opportunity (or more likely just for the same opportunities there, but closer to family / friends / better weather / more beaches) at a higher rate than they are coming in. If you didn't know this already, I guess maybe you don't know anyone in the restaurant industry (where illegals are often hired), but it's been a problem with a lot of restaurants having trouble keeping the doors open because they're having a difficult time finding that cheap labor, or being able to afford to pay someone reasonable wages to fill those positions. Google it, I'm sure plenty of articles have been written about it by frustrated restaurateurs.