Tyrande's insults in Val'Sharah change - anyone else upset?

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's stupid honestly. Hordies crying yet they don't remember how much they butchered northren Kalimdor. What pisses me off is how the other Night Elves act like friends towards the Horde.

Edit: Saw Nobbel's video yesterday and I didn't really understand why was he pissed off. He of all people should understand why Night Elves should hate Horde. Tyrande should have been even more cruel than that.

He was pissed off because Tyrande went full retard and was saying she would blame the Horde for something Maulf got himself into.

[Xilurm]

Alliance were never meant to be anything more than the antagonists to the horde. When WoW was introduced they had to be considered for MMO purposes. You are lucky they don't allow us to slaughter your kind.

It had the perfect balance up until after Wrath. Then it all went hippy happy bullshit. Yes, even with Garrosh, because that was just one crazy guy and the Alliance was fighting to defend themselves instead of how it was before. And everyone else was like "war is bad mkay? I'll stay neutral".

We just killed the Lich King who gives a fuck geezuz...

[Deleted]

Can someone explain this to me, please?

In the alpha there is a quest where Tyrande needs your help because Malfurion has problems. Now, some people were unhappy because during your mob killing, she keeps yelling stuff and they felt the stuff she yells at Horde players was insulting them saying things like "if Malfurion dies, I'll see to it that you pay" or "if anything happens you'll be personally responsible". So due to feedback, Blizzard changed the quest speech and what she yells around.

- - - Updated - - -

Could someone quotes what she said?
Even without knowing it i would say, well you cry for Vol'jin's spech at 5.3 so.... deal with it

Which is funny, since I clearly remember that, when Alliance players were unhappy that we got robo-cat in Cataclysm while Horde got a full attack on a town both Horde players and Blizzard said that the experiences don't have to be mirrors of one another.
And many Horde players kept saying how they never complained about anything.

Now Tyrande said a few words they found offensive, the forums exploded with complaints from the same Horde players and it got changed immediately.
So... how is it? Either we screw all characters and everyone is happy or everyone is mad, you can't have it both ways.

[Xilurm]

Can't wait for the day players wake up and decide they don't like the overall story, feel insulted by it and force Blizzard to change everything. The power some people who whine about something have over Blizzard is insane.

[Camthur]

I just don't get it. We're supposed to hate each other. Night Elves are supposed to be xenophobic. They have every right to hate certain races. (like trolls and orcs). Yet, every time one race or the other is a "big meanie" to some poor, sad somebody, some people get all upset.

[Hyral]

The impulsive, bratty Tyrande is her actual original personality. Did nobody play WC3?

That said, the difference here is Tyrande's insults come out of emotion and concern for her husband while she talks to someone who's been an enemy for years.

Vol'jin's dialog was a gambit. One that made absolutely no sense for any Alliance to sit through and take. The Alliance didn't need him and his revolution at that point. He needed them much more. And it made sense for the PC to call him out on it. The guy was squatting under a wooden tower outside an impregnable fortress and he wants to talk shit? Good luck.

[Deleted]

Ok, I just watched the video with how the situation was before it got changed.
I don't know, to me that didn't seem so weird. I mean, it did seem like something Tyrande would say. In the end, Tyrande does look at others with extreme prejudice. In the end, I remember that:
-in Warcraft 3 when she frees Malfurion she says about his suggestion that humans could be allies that they are mongrels and nothing more. And this was in the face of the worst enemies the night elves knew.
-in Warcraft 3 when she wants to free Illidan, Malfurion says he forbids it and Tyrande says that only the Goddess may forbid her anything.
-in Warcraft 3 when meeting with all the race leaders thanks to the Prophet she's like "what's with these morons? gtfo of our forests" before Malfurion asks her to listen
-in the Siege of Orgrimmar when she sees Vol'jin it's like she stepped in something nasty when she says "we're not here for you, troll, we're here for Kalimdor!". To me it felt she says "troll" as an insult rather than just as listing his race.
-in Warcrimes it is stated that when the Alliance leaders choose their prosecutor they first choose Varian. The Horde leaders object but then Sylvannas realizes that they did that specifically for the Horde leaders to reject the Alliance suggestion since they were obliged to accept the second proposition and there was only one other leader that hated Garrosh more than Varian... Tyrande. Sylvannas actually has a mind thought thinking if she'd paint the whole Horde evil and...
-she does. during Jaina's testimony, Tyrande puts a question hoping that Jaina would blame most of the Horde for Garrosh's rule. Her plan fails, but the very fact that she tries shows what Tyrande actually thinks about the Horde.

This is Tyrande. She doesn't trust those that haven't proven themselves to her and if they or anyone in their race/faction had done anything wrong to the night elves ever, she's quite xenophobic. You can say she's a Sylvannas of the Alliance... only she also speaks out, not only does things against the other faction. Sylvannas only does things but tries to lie her way to it. Tyrande doesn't give a shit.

So Tyrande, the somewhat xenophobic Horde hater (and let's be honest, after how Ashenvale looks, I can understand why she hates the Horde, there's a few other things too) gets a vision from Elune that Malfurion is trapped somewhere. She gets there and what does she see? A Horde member! Again, same feeling for her as when she saw Vol'jin, for her it's like she stepped in something nasty. Granted, this one is a champion of the Horde. But it's still... Horde. So, with her diplomacy of an ox and wanting to hurry around she does what she does best, bosses the Horde champion around. From her view, she has no reason to respect the champion of the Horde because... he's Horde, the enemy until yesterday. Sure, the champion of the Horde may also not help her, but she doesn't think at that, from her point of view, besides the fact that it's a rainy day (Malfurion missing) she found an umbrella vendor that gave her a broken umbrella (meeting the Horde). Honestly, if anything, she shouldn't treat the Alliance hero the same, for, while they're not Horde, they're still moving slower than she'd wish which would annoy Tyrande.

Also, by the way, I have a feeling that this whole Tyrande adventure happens mostly because we're "there" when she's there and she thinks "hey, look, a hero, maybe they kill 5 satyrs while I kill 500, maybe they get lucky finding Malfurion with their 5 satyrs". In general, that's the effect the latest portrayals of night elves from Blizzard give me. The best example is Ashenvale where the night elves are like "yeah, kill those 5 goblins, and get some wood and... oh, done? time to get rid of the Horde? Well, that's too dangerous for you... ummm... hey look, there's a coloured balloon, go get it!" or in Hyjal with Thisalee Crow that's like *cleaning her nails with a dagger* "oh, you want something to do? kill 15 harpies, have fun!" and then later when you get to their leader she's like "whoa, not so fast, I was here too!" then guild trips you no matter what you choose. In general the latest portrayals of night elves made by Blizzard to me seem of characters that think they can handle themselves. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're full of themselves. But they feel that way because of the same reason that when you correct your grandparents on something they think they know, they ignore you, even if you're right. Because, in their eyes, you're just a child who barely knows anything about the subject. Now imagine someone living thousands of years.

[Koryn123]

Well, after the mana bomb, Jaina went crying to her dad's grave, whining about how he was right and she should have listened, how orcs are monsters and will never change, which I thought was pretty dumb of her.

And everybody treats her like a victim, giving her all their sympathy.

It was pretty frustrating how nobody in Tides of War, War Crimes, or anywhere in-game ever once said "So, are we all just gonna keep pretending Theramore hadn't been skating around their treaty for years to support the Night Elves with resources and transport for Alliance troops from the Eastern Kingdoms? And how they dropped all pretense and fully committed to war against the Horde after the Cataclysm hit by unprovokedly invading Durotar, as well as attacking their settlements in the Barrens? No? Mmk, just thought I'd ask."

Because Theramore was.

And then she goes crying to her dad's grave, talking about how the orcs are bad, and how it's all their fault and she's blameless for it all.

When what she should have done is been like "Dad? Dad? Why aren't you answering? Oh, yeah, I forgot. You're dead because you attacked a warrior race not known for their diplomacy, unprovoked. Maybe I should have learned something from that."

So, yeah. Making characters irrational and dumb in WoW is nothing new.


I'm guessing Blizzard wanted to make Tyrande seem all tough and baddass and whatnot, and did a bad job of it, like how they made Jaina out to be the poor innocent victim and Garrosh out to be the evil bad guy.

Theramore was helping the Horde's enemies attack them for years, something Thrall pretended not to notice because he was Jaina's friend, then in Cataclysm Theramore sent armed expeditions into Durotar with invasion plans for Orgrimmar, the Valley of Trials, and either Sen'jin Village, Echo Isles, or Razor Hill, I don't recall which of those three. Thrall might be willing to look the other way, but Garrosh certainly wouldn't, and Jaina was stupid to think he'd let her get away with it.

In the end, he valued the lives of his Horde more than the Alliance, and made a tactically brilliant move to kill more enemies with less risk to his own troops.

He was called evil and bad for that, and became a raid boss.

So, what we can learn from that is that if Blizzard wants to make someone an over-the-top crazy blackwashed bad guy, and someone else a crazy whitewashed victim, they'll arbitrarily call whatever advantage the supposed bad guy has evil.

By that logic, any projectile weapon is evil, because it makes it easier for you to kill someone from far away with less risk to yourself. Or armor is evil because it makes it harder for your enemy's weapons to hurt you. All siege weapons are bad because it's dishonorable to break through a stone wall with anything but a sword clinking against it while you whine that the wall is unfair.

Everyone who discovers an effective weapon first is obviously going to have a crushing victory over their enemies. It's nothing new. The Night Elves carved out an empire with their advanced arcane magics against the Troll empires. Same with the High Elves and Humans. They ganged up on the Amani, why aren't they called evil?


But, they wanted Garrosh to be evil, so they had him list none of the very valid reasons he had for wiping Theramore off the map. Instead, they had him go "rawr, death to the Alliance, for teh horde, rawr."

And they wanted Jaina to be the poor innocent victim, so they gave her and everyone else amnesia so everybody forgot that Theramore:

1. Was providing the Night Elves with supplies to help them fight a small group of orcs (the Warsong), who were attacking the Night Elves in the process of harvesting lumber without consent because they saw their people dying, and Thrall was unwilling to lift a finger to save them, and needed resources that the Night Elves were unwilling to share or trade for.

2. Arranged the Night Elves' admittance into the Alliance so Stormwind and Ironforge could use them as pawns against the Horde that hadn't done anything to them in 10-20 years, however long it had been since the 2nd War.

3. Allowed Alliance ships to use Theramore as a garrison and harbor to allow their troops a fortified position to enter the continent from.

4. Built a sophisticated highway from the city through the Dustwallow Marsh up to Ashenvale to allow faster transport of Alliance troops to help kill the Horde.

5. Does nothing to stop Northwatch from firing upon any ships pulling in or out of Ratchet, including a high elf privateer captain's ships.


And then after Cataclysm:

6. Formally joined the Alliance in force in the war against the Horde.

7. Sent armed expeditions into Durotar (which they can't pretend is neutral territory like the Barrens, lorewise) with invasion plans for key Horde positions.

8. Destroyed Camp Taurajo (nice of them to carpet bomb them in such a way as to provide an escape route for a few of them, but an act of war nonetheless)

9. Fighting in the Southern Barrens and laying siege to Mulgore, prevented only by the Tauren's timely building of their huge gate. Though, it's possible that force is comprised more of Eastern Kingdoms troops rather than Theramore ones specifically.


But Jaina being a foolish hypocrite preaching peace while making war wasn't conducive to their narrative that she was a poor innocent victim picking daisies and eating mana cookies with her apprentice when the mean ugly orcs came stomping in to ruin their fun.

So they did a bad job of painting one as bad and the other as good, while anyone who follows the lore could realize that something is wrong with everybody's behavior in Tides of War, War Crimes, and everyone spouting "Remember Theramore! When the Horde destroyed a perfectly legitimate military target that pretended to be neutral, but was really helping their enemies for years, then dropped all pretense by actively joining to kill them!"

Doesn't have quite the same ring to it when they're being honest.


But they added in Garrosh capturing innocent civilians after he gave them time to escape before dropping the bomb in Theramore, torturing them in Orgrimmar during SoO so that nobody was left with any doubt that he was a curly mustached Saturday-morning cartoon villain.

None of the Jaina stuff would bother me though, if she'd just quit pretending Theramore was all about peace and neutrality, and saying "They have undermined every attempt at peace!" about the Horde. Or if just one single character in WoW would point out that Theramore wasn't innocent and didn't have it coming. I expected Garrosh to point it out more than anyone, but Blizzard doesn't like morally grey characters.


So yeah. Blizzard isn't that great at depicting people as cool/tough, because it's really easy for people who care about the story to see through the bs, or realize that the only way the person is made out to be better is because Blizzard or whatever author is working for them is arbitrarily presenting someone else as worse/dumb/weak/careless (Tyrande and Varian in MoP, Fandral and Malfurion, Blood elf magi everywhere after Kael'thas died being made to look inferior to or dependent on humans so the humans look better like Aethas betraying his people by hocking a priceless Thalassian historical royal heirloom national treasure just to be allowed to beg them to let him live in Dalaran again where he'll be forever mistrusted and hated rather than in Quel'thalas where he'd be a respected magister providing for his people, etc.)

Like for real.

"If he couldn't be trusted, he'd just have given the sword to one of his own Sunreavers."

So...having a drop of national pride for your people and not immediately handing over a priceless treasure of your kingdom that's been passed down the royal family line of Quel'thalas for millenia to the humans of the Kirin Tor who've demonstrated their willingness to toss aside the elves the moment they become inconvenient twice is untrustworthy?

Sounds like the only way to prove he's not a simpering dog fetching the Kirin Tor's slippers and paper would be to give the sword to Lor'themar or Rommath to decide what to do with. Or at least present the bearer to them first before the Kirin Tor. Or at least have Rommath be on the Council of Six providing his vote for Aethas joining, rather than replacing him with Kalecgos, therefore giving the Horde no representation on the Council or say in its decisions, making the Horde just guests who probably had to beg to be allowed to be in Dalaran to fight the Legion.

But nope. Most notable Blood Elf mage to people who don't follow the lore. Licking the Kirin Tor's boots to be allowed a crappy apartment in Dalaran until the next time they decide the Blood Elves/Horde are inconvenient.

Basically RiP anyone who follows this fantasy story for any of the fantasy races present in it, because the only ones who get any spotlight are humans, and as the story seems to be careening toward its conclusion with everyone being friends and fighting the Legion together, I doubt there's going to be any more time spent on developing any of the other races besides humans now.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Vol'jin's dialog was a gambit. One that made absolutely no sense for any Alliance to sit through and take. The Alliance didn't need him and his revolution at that point. He needed them much more. And it made sense for the PC to call him out on it. The guy was squatting under a wooden tower outside an impregnable fortress and he wants to talk shit? Good luck.

Except Varian made it pretty fucking clear they needed the Horde's cooperation to take down Garrosh.

[Arrashi]

Except Varian made it pretty fucking clear they needed the Horde's cooperation to take down Garrosh.

Of course they did. Orky cheerleaders are best cheerleaders. Without that he would never had morale to attack orgrimmar.

[LazarusLong]

Ok, I just watched the video with how the situation was before it got changed.
I don't know, to me that didn't seem so weird. I mean, it did seem like something Tyrande would say. In the end, Tyrande does look at others with extreme prejudice. In the end, I remember that:
-in Warcraft 3 when she frees Malfurion she says about his suggestion that humans could be allies that they are mongrels and nothing more. And this was in the face of the worst enemies the night elves knew.
-in Warcraft 3 when she wants to free Illidan, Malfurion says he forbids it and Tyrande says that only the Goddess may forbid her anything.
-in Warcraft 3 when meeting with all the race leaders thanks to the Prophet she's like "what's with these morons? gtfo of our forests" before Malfurion asks her to listen
-in the Siege of Orgrimmar when she sees Vol'jin it's like she stepped in something nasty when she says "we're not here for you, troll, we're here for Kalimdor!". To me it felt she says "troll" as an insult rather than just as listing his race.
-in Warcrimes it is stated that when the Alliance leaders choose their prosecutor they first choose Varian. The Horde leaders object but then Sylvannas realizes that they did that specifically for the Horde leaders to reject the Alliance suggestion since they were obliged to accept the second proposition and there was only one other leader that hated Garrosh more than Varian... Tyrande. Sylvannas actually has a mind thought thinking if she'd paint the whole Horde evil and...
-she does. during Jaina's testimony, Tyrande puts a question hoping that Jaina would blame most of the Horde for Garrosh's rule. Her plan fails, but the very fact that she tries shows what Tyrande actually thinks about the Horde.

This is Tyrande. She doesn't trust those that haven't proven themselves to her and if they or anyone in their race/faction had done anything wrong to the night elves ever, she's quite xenophobic. You can say she's a Sylvannas of the Alliance... only she also speaks out, not only does things against the other faction. Sylvannas only does things but tries to lie her way to it. Tyrande doesn't give a shit.

So Tyrande, the somewhat xenophobic Horde hater (and let's be honest, after how Ashenvale looks, I can understand why she hates the Horde, there's a few other things too) gets a vision from Elune that Malfurion is trapped somewhere. She gets there and what does she see? A Horde member! Again, same feeling for her as when she saw Vol'jin, for her it's like she stepped in something nasty. Granted, this one is a champion of the Horde. But it's still... Horde. So, with her diplomacy of an ox and wanting to hurry around she does what she does best, bosses the Horde champion around. From her view, she has no reason to respect the champion of the Horde because... he's Horde, the enemy until yesterday. Sure, the champion of the Horde may also not help her, but she doesn't think at that, from her point of view, besides the fact that it's a rainy day (Malfurion missing) she found an umbrella vendor that gave her a broken umbrella (meeting the Horde). Honestly, if anything, she shouldn't treat the Alliance hero the same, for, while they're not Horde, they're still moving slower than she'd wish which would annoy Tyrande.

Also, by the way, I have a feeling that this whole Tyrande adventure happens mostly because we're "there" when she's there and she thinks "hey, look, a hero, maybe they kill 5 satyrs while I kill 500, maybe they get lucky finding Malfurion with their 5 satyrs". In general, that's the effect the latest portrayals of night elves from Blizzard give me. The best example is Ashenvale where the night elves are like "yeah, kill those 5 goblins, and get some wood and... oh, done? time to get rid of the Horde? Well, that's too dangerous for you... ummm... hey look, there's a coloured balloon, go get it!" or in Hyjal with Thisalee Crow that's like *cleaning her nails with a dagger* "oh, you want something to do? kill 15 harpies, have fun!" and then later when you get to their leader she's like "whoa, not so fast, I was here too!" then guild trips you no matter what you choose. In general the latest portrayals of night elves made by Blizzard to me seem of characters that think they can handle themselves. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're full of themselves. But they feel that way because of the same reason that when you correct your grandparents on something they think they know, they ignore you, even if you're right. Because, in their eyes, you're just a child who barely knows anything about the subject. Now imagine someone living thousands of years.

I would actually like to see Tyrande treating alliance hero like crap too.

As for dialog, it's not that I, as a horde hero, mind Tyrande treating me like this. I do mind helping her after that very much. Would be cool to see her reaction if I say that I won't lift a finger until she apologizes.

[Deleted]

Except Varian made it pretty fucking clear they needed the Horde's cooperation to take down Garrosh.

Yes, but Vol'jin tried to take control of the Alliance forces by bluffing. He said that he could let the Alliance forces fight and die and then Resistance would mop up the survivors. Now, while this might have been right, the resistance was in Durotar while the Alliance was not yet there. So, when Garrosh would have gone out of Orgrimmar, the first to fall would not have been the night elves of the humans, but they, the Horde Resistance. That's why his statement was a bluff. Because even he knew that, but tried to somehow wrest control of the Alliance force to make it seem like they're just there to help the Horde resistance.
And Vol'jin knew that without the Alliance help, he'd lose.

Meanwhile, Tyrande has already saved Malfurion... 2 times now? In WC3 and Stormrage(well, second is debatable, but she thought she was saving him)? So she thinks she can save him, but she sees someone who might come as token help and orders them around. As I said, considering Tyrande's personality, I'd have expected her to order any non-night elf around as she did with the Horde in her speech.

- - - Updated - - -

I would actually like to see Tyrande treating alliance hero like crap too.

As for dialog, it's not that I, as a horde hero, mind Tyrande treating me like this. I do mind helping her after that very much. Would be cool to see her reaction if I say that I won't lift a finger until she apologizes.

Yeah, you know, I actually wouldn't mind if she treated everyone(except night elves, I explained why) like she does the Horde champion. Considering how she mostly acts, would fit her character. I like night elves, but can't deny that she's quite xenophobic and objective driven, not seeing the problems along the way.
I actually rewatched the entry scene from WC3's 4th night elf mission and and to me it seemed like quite a funny interraction(disclaimer: my view of the events is not exactly as how the scene played out, but rather tweaked to seem funny):
Malfurion is like: "ah my love, great to see you"
Tyrande: "great to see you too"
Malfurion: "our world is tainted by the Legion, what shall we do"
Tyrande: "hey, I freed you and my plan is to free the druids!"
Malfurion: "hey, those outsiders fight our enemy and..."
Tyrande: "the druids of the talon are in that burrow, let's go free the druids!"
Malfurion: "... maybe these outsiders can make good allies?"
Tyrande: "all of them mongrels, let's go free the druids!"
Malfurion: "ok dear"

[Nyoken]

I mean thats kinda the point of insults! Fuck her and the alliance pigs! What are we all friends now? No siree, any alliance scum I see is going down hard.

[Gaidax]

Can't she be useful for something like once, like making me a sandwich instead of doing the whole drama queen shit?

[Zephre]

Don't really care about Tyrande she's always been a xenophobic dumbass who yolo's into situations and needs others to bail her out.

[Deleted]

It's stupid honestly. Hordies crying yet they don't remember how much they butchered northren Kalimdor. What pisses me off is how the other Night Elves act like friends towards the Horde.

Edit: Saw Nobbel's video yesterday and I didn't really understand why was he pissed off. He of all people should understand why Night Elves should hate Horde. Tyrande should have been even more cruel than that.

Butchered Northern Kalimdor? Huh?
Oh you mean when they cut a few trees to make huts and camp fires. Well at least the night elves visited them and told them of their customs and how trees are sacred and...
oh wait, no. They just sent a fucking demigod to kill them all.

[JTHMRulez1]

Butchered Northern Kalimdor? Huh?
Oh you mean when they cut a few trees to make huts and camp fires. Well at least the night elves visited them and told them of their customs and how trees are sacred and...
oh wait, no. They just sent a fucking demigod to kill them all.

Sorry to break this to a lot of people.
But even if the Night Elves were to talked with the orcs. Grom would have tell them to fuck off.

[Deleted]

Sorry to break this to a lot of people.
But even if the Night Elves were to talked with the orcs. Grom would have tell them to fuck off.

Probably. But it's not like they tried or anything. Nelvess are by nature kill on sight xenophobic jackasses. With Tyrande as the worst offender, and Malfurion as the odd one out. Wonder why those two are even together.
I find it pretty funny that some nelf fans are still pissed that grom fought back and didnt let himself killed by Cenarius for the horrible crime of gathering firewood.
Sure, Grom is also a warmongering jerk and I still don't understand why he wasn't flayed for all that Iron Hord business, but the elves can't really point fingers when it comes to the situation in Ashenvale.

[Deleted]

If you are a Horde balance druid her comments make her look dumb.

[Koryn123]

Theramore humans also harvested lumber from Ashenvale without permission, and this was after the Night Elves' presence was known, and with full knowledge that the Night Elves didn't like people cutting down their trees. Why don't people ever call Theramore evil for that?

The only reason Jaina didn't need lumber from the Night Elves in WoW was because Stormwind and Ironforge sent her all the resources she needed. Her circumstances provided her with what she needed, so she was all high and mighty, just like the High Elves in the Silver Covenant whose circumstances provided them with an army of humans to protect them while they got over their addictions, so they also act all high and mighty to the Blood Elves and pretend they're stronger for not siphoning mana from living creatures (except Vereesa does that to Rhonin) or being fel-tainted because they weren't standing in Silvermoon when it was powered by fel magic.

Instead of helping the Orcs by giving them resources, which they desperately needed, Jaina gave resources to the Night Elves, as if they didn't already have enough. Then she escalated the conflict by arranging the Night Elves' admittance into the Alliance with Stormwind and Ironforge, thus blowing a small incident way out of proportion.

1. All the orcs are dying.

2. Orc leader is a pussy with no pride for his people, preferring they all die, including the innocent children, because they deserve it for the Old Horde's actions.

3. Warsong Clan is outraged and take matters into their own hands, harvesting lumber and sending it to Orgrimmar.

4. Thrall doesn't condone their actions, but accepts the lumber as they really do need it.

5. Tyrande, now devoid of most of her power after the Legion "corrupted" a bunch of their allies like furbolgs and whatnot, declares war not only on the Warsong Clan, but all the orcs, and all the tauren, and trolls, and goblins working for the Horde, because she and her people were hogging all the healthy land, not allowing anyone to use the trees they can literally regrow in an instant if their druids aren't sleeping.

6. She's like "oh no, I can't defeat these guys alone. I need allies." And she reaches out to Theramore.

7. Jaina's like "sry, we have a peace treaty with the Horde. Buuuuuuuuut I can put you in touch with my friends on the other side of the world that you've never met before."

8. Tyrande's like "Oh, that'd be awesome. I should definitely kill all the people who helped protect my World Tree and save Azeroth from the Legion, by allying myself with complete strangers on the other side of the world. Because complete annihilation is the obvious consequence of cutting down a few trees in my 1/2 a continent.

9. Jaina's like "Also, I know you are living on all the healthy lands in Kalimdor, condemning the Orcs to death in a desert, and us to a lame swamp, but need some more resources? You obviously do, much more than the orcs willing to cut down your trees because they so desperately need them and you refuse even to give them Azshara that's swarming with naga, and can hardly be considered your territory."

10. Tyrande's like "Sure, we could use some footstools to reach high shelves."



What could have happened:

1. Orcs need resources.

2. Night Elves, as a thank you for being nice and protecting Hyjal, dying side by side against Archimonde and the Legion, allow them a small lumber operation. Not enough to power a war machine, but enough to sustain their people in Durotar.

3. Everyone gets along fine.


Or second-best scenario:

1. Orcs need resources.

2. Night Elves say no way, we've got like only 500 billion trees. If we shared a few hundred with you, we'd have only 499.999 billion trees."

3. Warsong are mad when Thrall does nothing, and harvest anyway, making the Night Elves ask Theramore for help.

4. Jaina decides to actually work toward peace in any useful way by reaching out to Thrall and offering to share the resources she canonically gave to the Night Elves with him and the orcs instead.

5. Orcs have an easier time of surviving, Thrall talks the Warsong down, who see that the Horde isn't struggling as much thanks to Theramore, and everyone gets along fine, viewing Theramore in a more positive light than they did canonically when Theramore was the one skating around the treaty however they could to harm the Horde while Thrall did nothing.

6. Everyone gets along fine.


But what ended up happening was the Warsong harvested lumber, then the Night Elves declared war on the whole Horde and focused their efforts pretty much everywhere except the actual cause of the contention: the Warsong in Ashenvale. At least, they didn't focus enough on that part to make any progress. In fact, it seemed more like an excuse to war against them than anything else, given that they didn't seemed concerned enough to put a complete stop to the Warsong's lumber-harvesting.

Also might have been able to stop them easier if Tyrande didn't move a huge chunk of the Night Elf population to Teldrassil for no reason. And if the center of their military might wasn't uselessly hanging out on some island far removed from their territories (Feathermoon Stronghold).