Current playerbase can't handle Timewalking dungeons level of difficulty?

[Deleted]

It's not timewalking. It's the ability to actually have an oversight. Young People are intimidated by all those mythic raiders who call out everyone a failure who cannot deal with xy. But... wow community has grown older. So I wonder - will I see old People decline or new People adapt? To me it doesn't matter. I will look in pve and pvp with minmal gear and then just compare it with other games I also Play. So I want to see veterans evolve over the minor performance-youths. Can you, can you not. Show me - Community created by a game created by Blizzard!

[Granyala]

Yes I am pretty worried about healer crippling in legion too.

I just don't like Blizzards model with "you heal for tiny amounts so you struggle to bring a players HP back up, yet we still spam debuffs faster than you can dispel and dish out damage that knocks off 75% player HP in one GCD."

Imho Blizzard forgot that healing is supposed to be fun and feel powerful too and not some frustrating struggle to try to stem the non avoidable damage long enough for DPS to kill the mob.

[Osmeric]

Yes I am pretty worried about healer crippling in legion too.

I just don't like Blizzards model with "you heal for tiny amounts so you struggle to bring a players HP back up, yet we still spam debuffs faster than you can dispel and dish out damage that knocks off 75% player HP in one GCD."

Imho Blizzard forgot that healing is supposed to be fun and feel powerful too and not some frustrating struggle to try to stem the non avoidable damage long enough for DPS to kill the mob.

It's one of the big mistakes of Cataclysm all over again.

- - - Updated - - -

Hope Blizzard tunes them down a bit, espeshil Pit of Saron and Arcatraz

TW Arc isn't that hard.

[Raiju]

Hope Blizzard tunes them down a bit, espeshil Pit of Saron and Arcatraz

Arcatraz is about pulling - and the packs are intended to be taken as single mobs largely. Take your time with it and it's one of the easiest TBC ones.

If you feel like multipulling, just remember 2 large mobs is like pulling 2 packs in most places. You don't want to pull 5 large mobs in a pug unless you know you personally can handle it all.

[diox990]

They also lacked cooldowns. So in conclusion AOE healing was in fact much stronger and potent. I know this because I actually played. Clearly you didn't.

So? let me remind you we are talking about dungeons. No good healer in WotLK was spamming AoE heals in most dungeons because single target heals were really strong compared to AoE also the encounters were designed taking that in account.

But welp I guess I can't argue with someone like you who thinks they are right after reading why they are wrong.

Hope Blizzard tunes them down a bit, espeshil Pit of Saron and Arcatraz

I can agree with Pit of Saron but only the last boss, because it seems to be oneshotting some tanks with the knockback.

[Granyala]

So? let me remind you we are talking about dungeons. No good healer in WotLK was spamming AoE heals in most dungeons because single target heals were really strong compared to AoE also the encounters were designed taking that in account.

Well "spamming" AoE was not possible as holy, because CoH got a cooldown in 3.0, but you definitely used in on CD.
PoM could only be cast once on the group, had to wait till it finished bouncing before you could cast another.
PoH could be spammed, just like today, but that was hardly ever necessary, as opposed to now where you sometimes hit it as hard as you can because it's the only button left that makes sense... yet it still heals like a wet noodle.

[coocoo]

Having done TWs on 3-4 tanks (druid/dk/pala/warr) each event for a while, I can say that from my PoV, druid definitely feels spikiest of the lot (the char I've main tanked on for 7 years), while the warr I boosted to 100 last xmas and I've only barely tanked on as offspec with crappy dps gear feels easier to tank with (better toolkit for sure).

Tziva is right about one thing: something definitely is not right. Of course, it's obvious we don't have spammable dispels now like back then, so some mechanics that were trivialized by spam dispels are more painful now. One thing I have noticed is that most players don't even bother using any of their utility to help make the TWs smoother, even basic things like interrupting or stunning mobs, far too often I find myself as top/only interrupter in groups, and likewise, you never really see anyone using offensive dispels (purge/tranqshot to remove buffs/heals), people rely too much on brute forcing through everything, even if it actually does make the fights take longer or more hazardous. Sadly, a lot of the mythic geared players I see, who should know better, are no better than the inexperienced players, just thinking they can yolo lolsmash everything and ignore mechanics.

But aside from that, there definitely are a few scaling issues. Some abilities definitely are hitting harder than they originally did, and some debuffs are flat out broken -> there's at least 2 if not 3 mobs in wrath TWs with sunder armor abilities, which originally just lowered the tank's armor by about 10% per stack, which are now flat out dropping the tank to 0 armor, hence why some become like papertanks and take massive damage, far more than they did originally back then.
Unfortunately, Blizzard doesn't seem to fix anything that doesn't get reported to "the right people" on Twitter.


I just wish this discussion here was less full of max epeen and instead would try to look at the actual issues and figure them out.

[Granyala]

Some abilities definitely are hitting harder than they originally did, and some debuffs are flat out broken -> there's at least 2 if not 3 mobs in wrath TWs with sunder armor abilities, which originally just lowered the tank's armor by about 10% per stack, which are now flat out dropping the tank to 0 armor, hence why some become like papertanks and take massive damage, far more than they did originally back then.

That sure explains some of the absurd "WTF why did the tank drop like that" moments.

[ImpTaimer]

Much like the item squish and leveling experience post-talent-tree removal, Blizzard put no effort into balancing Timewalking dungeons.

It just baffles me how this big company can't sit one guy aside to make sure it isn't total bullshit.

Instead they create a PTR session and call it a day.

Currently the main problem are old mechanics that were not removed/tweaked. For Pit of Saron it feels as if you're doing Heroic with the minimum i-lvl for Normal version.

[Damajin]

I had no idea what you were all talking about until I started queuing on my rogue alt instead of tanking these. So much depends, I think, on whether tank in particular has been there before. The groups I've tanked have mostly gone smoothly. The ones I've done as DPS have been pretty crazy lol.

Same for me, the ones I tank go fine because I did all those instances as progression through to raiding so I remember which pulls actually hurt. If you get a Heirloom Era tank who just pulls everything like it's lowbie Deadmines you're in for a rough time.

I also wish lower level healers wouldn't que for these, really tired of these level 92-94 healers complaining about not being able to handle all the damage and the group needs to 'do more' to help. Sorry, I guess rolling defensives and using Healing Elixirs on cooldown isn't enough.

[McNeil]

I don't have much difficulty completing TW dungeons, being a tank myself. Though sometimes it can be hard to stomach some godawful players. The only roadblock I faced was Garfrost with 3 terrible DPS, it was just impossible to kill him. And everyone was even following tacs, but he just didn't go down.

[Fang7986]

The biggest problem is that player's can't overgear Timewalking dungeons. It's the same thing that happens at the beginning of every xpac . Players bitch and moan the dungeons are too hard, not because they actually are, but because they can't zerg/AoE faceroll the entire instance in one pull. The problem isn't dungeons are hard it's that players get use to and spend 95% of their time in dungeons vastly overgearing them so that's what they are accustom to.

[Granyala]

I also wish lower level healers wouldn't que for these, really tired of these level 92-94 healers complaining about not being able to handle all the damage and the group needs to 'do more' to help. Sorry, I guess rolling defensives and using Healing Elixirs on cooldown isn't enough.

You should try crowd control and interrupts.
From a healing perspective, both make a WORLD of difference.

If you just pull and facerank all them packs, even a level 100 healer in raid gear can struggle. I have struggled and failed on the ramp trash myself and I know how to heal stuff.

[Damajin]

You should try crowd control and interrupts.
From a healing perspective, both make a WORLD of difference.

If you just pull and facerank all them packs, even a level 100 healer in raid gear can struggle. I have struggled and failed on the ramp trash myself and I know how to heal stuff.

I use Remorseless Winter and Strangulate as a DK tank in those runs and interrupt as much as I can, especially in PoS on the ramp. Calling for CC doesn't help too often as lots of these kids don't even know what that means or what CC they have.

[Granyala]

Calling for CC doesn't help too often as lots of these kids don't even know what that means or what CC they have.

Yeah I noticed that.... pretty... um... concerning. :X

[Marrilaife]

I also wish lower level healers wouldn't que for these, really tired of these level 92-94 healers complaining about not being able to handle all the damage and the group needs to 'do more' to help. Sorry, I guess rolling defensives and using Healing Elixirs on cooldown isn't enough.

I've finished pit of saron with non 100 healer in looms and clueless tank (literally the guy said "1st time here" and I was trying to explain him whole dungeon like to a 5 year old child). Yes, we wiped on first boss twice and our lvl 100 healer left in despair to be replaced by the levelling shaman. But the rest went surprisingly smooth for a group where a tank and 1 dps had absolutely zero idea. I was actually surprised people stayed (except the first healer) instead of typical rage quit / vote kick fiesta, maybe there is some faith in humanity.

To be honest even though the run was painful with the wipes on 1st boss, and then people not knowing where the door is, and then dps dying from the fixate on the second boss so it took long to kill him, I still rather endure this than the usual "gogogo" tards. As an example, went with my levelling alt to jade temple and had the healer rush me whole instance despite the dps were not following me properly to the point some of them got cut out when the healer urged me to pull boss. I feel horrible after those runs. Is it so hard to wait few seconds for the whole group to enter? Must people "gogogo" go ahead and pull everything and constantly whine "this dung should take 5min tops"?

Even in mythic dungeons it happened people rushed me or pulled ahead of me and only afterwards I realized some group member is not inside the boss room. 2 dps even rushed me last time in mythic slag mines to keep pulling WHEN HEALER WAS DCed. Sigh...

[Granyala]

Just let these morons pull and chuckle while they die.

Having played so much FF-XIV with it's slower pace, the rush mentality of WoW is rather annoying to me.

[Byggie]

As a mythic HFC healer myself, yes, I sometimes do feel timewalker dungeons are poorly balanced, and I completely understand where your frustration comes from Especially when I'm not running with my guildies.

Surprisingly tho, most of the players I've come across are more than willing to listen and cooperate. Try to be patient with people, if they are not doing what they are supposed to do and refuse to help each other out, us healers always have the option to let them die and pay the repair bills They will learn eventually.

[rasako]

Timewalking dungeons are poorly balanced? I was spam running them with 3 of my real life friends who have never even played an MMO before and just started two days before the event began. They're poorly balanced for sure, as in extremely easy and not even comparable to the originals.

[Granyala]

TBC ones are definitely brain dead easy.
Most WotLK ones too.

Pit of Saron is really the only one that gave me trouble from a healing perspective.