Is Taxation Theft?

[Arganis]

If nobody benefitted from taxes it would be theft but that's hardly true, unless you live in the wilderness and use the land to sustain yourself.

[The Stormbringer]

To me taxation is theft when that money is being spent on things other than what the constitution explicitly allows.

Things that are okay uses of tax dollars: Emergency services, the military, the justice system, public buildings

Things that are not okay uses of tax dollars: wealth redistribution, infrastructure, regulation of businesses, non-constitutional agencies

Because who needs infrastructure, amirite? Let's just let our cities, roads, and bridges collapse and fall apart. ^_^

Also, how can taxes be 'spent' on regulating business? Regulating a business means you tell it what to do or what not to do. If you're referring to bailing out business or giving them cash incentives, that's something else entirely.

[The Plague]

You know, even if you pay taxes your roads will fall apart if the government doesn't spend the money where it belongs. Why bother at all if you don't see results. Why trust the government with your tax money when they are so awful at managing it?

[Deleted]

No, taxes are paying the state for continued services. Now, if the taxes are big and with little to no result... it might actually be considered theft.

So, if you lived somewhere where you had no sewage, electricity, paved roads, protection from the state, free education, free healthcare... basically if you lived in some of the villages of Romania, and still paid taxes, it's because the state is robbing you. One could also argue that the amount of taxes paid compared to how little the state gives you can also be theft, so basically if you lived in Romania anywhere and still paid taxes. But it's ok, the state will buy preety overpriced flowers and light poles for you.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well said. I have read mmo for a long time and seen the things people post about political topics like this. Almost no one will comprehend the magnitude of what you just posted.

On the other hand, a lot of people realize the importance of infrastructure, regulation, and even wealth redistribution. Supporting the poor and unfortunate lowers crime immensely. Nobody who things taxes paying for infrastructure can actually name very much in the way of infrastructure they'd see removed (maybe the ultra narcissistic will say any of the infrastructure they don't use), and likewise nobody who is against "regulation" can actually say what regulation they oppose, save maybe one or two acts. The FDA was created in direct response to people being sold scams and food with rat poison in it. The EPA was created in response to businesses literally polluting water supplies and air to the point that it was poisonous to drink/breath. OSHA was created in response to businesses that forced their employees to work in conditions that put their health at imminent risk without safety equipment.

I could go on, but my point has been made. People who just blindly oppose abstract concepts like regulation, wealth redistribution, infrastructure, etc. have clearly only invested as much into the subject of such things as looking at their FB feed and seeing someone rant about it.

[Bytch]

Over-all, the taxes you pay today does NOT pay for anything other than the past debt that has been accumulated. So, no, taxes dont pay for sh!t!

- - - Updated - - -

No, taxes are paying the state for continued services. Now, if the taxes are big and with little to no result... it might actually be considered theft.

So, if you lived somewhere where you had no sewage, electricity, paved roads, protection from the state, free education, free healthcare... basically if you lived in some of the villages of Romania, and still payed taxes, it's because the state is robbing you. One could also argue that the amount of taxes payed compared to how little the state gives you can also be theft, so basically if you lived in Romania anywhere and still payed taxes. But it's ok, the state will buy preety overpriced flowers and light poles for you.

It's paid, not payed.

[BattleSaint]

On the other hand, a lot of people realize the importance of infrastructure, regulation, and even wealth redistribution. Supporting the poor and unfortunate lowers crime immensely. Nobody who things taxes paying for infrastructure can actually name very much in the way of infrastructure they'd see removed (maybe the ultra narcissistic will say any of the infrastructure they don't use), and likewise nobody who is against "regulation" can actually say what regulation they oppose, save maybe one or two acts. The FDA was created in direct response to people being sold scams and food with rat poison in it. The EPA was created in response to businesses literally polluting water supplies and air to the point that it was poisonous to drink/breath. OSHA was created in response to businesses that forced their employees to work in conditions that put their health at imminent risk without safety equipment.

I could go on, but my point has been made. People who just blindly oppose abstract concepts like regulation, wealth redistribution, infrastructure, etc. have clearly only invested as much into the subject of such things as looking at their FB feed and seeing someone rant about it.

supporting the poor and "unfortunate" is not redistribution. Providing a social safety net for emergencies or unforeseen circumstance, is not the same thing as taking someone's money or property,for the ideological purpose of giving it to others, in the name of highly subjective "fairness".

[Deleted]

It's paid, not payed.

Thank you, I fixed it. Seems I had been using payed instead of paid for quite a while without knowing the difference.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

You're staying in a hotel... you're paying to stay there...

OMG THEFT!

I was handing him the money while crying and he laughed. Those people have no souls.

[Tijuana]

Citations plz

I'm not here to educate you. But I don't know, just off the top of my head, the Federal Highway fund, for starters. The simple fact that roads are built at all levels of government should be another clue for you. But really, I tried to correct you but it's not like I will lose sleep over some random person thinking the gas tax pays for all roads. /shrug

- - - Updated - - -

??? Nothing to do with communism vs capitalism. Either you think taxation should be used to prevent a hereditary aristocracy arising or you don't. Given that that is what happens if you let capital continually build up in families over generations there really is no other choice. Now which is it? Are you for an aristocracy or not?

Death taxes are wealth redistribution. That's communism at its most basic level. Capital does not "continually build up over generations", as most people have more than one off spring. It's divided up again and again and again, as we breed more an more. Just look at the Waltons, for example. The biggest fortune ever created has already been split 5 different ways. And then they will have several children, and so on. The overwhelming majority of millionaires are self made. I know that doesn't fit your world view but, facts are facts. This notion that all the wealthy people in the US came over on the Mayflower and are just running the country now could not be more tin foil hat.

[fengosa]

I'm not here to educate you. But I don't know, just off the top of my head, the Federal Highway fund, for starters. The simple fact that roads are built at all levels of government should be another clue for you. But really, I tried to correct you but it's not like I will lose sleep over some random person thinking the gas tax pays for all roads. /shrug

- - - Updated - - -



Death taxes are wealth redistribution. That's communism at its most basic level. Capital does not "continually build up over generations", as most people have more than one off spring. It's divided up again and again and again, as we breed more an more. Just look at the Waltons, for example. The biggest fortune ever created has already been split 5 different ways. And then they will have several children, and so on. The overwhelming majority of millionaires are self made. I know that doesn't fit your world view but, facts are facts. This notion that all the wealthy people in the US came over on the Mayflower and are just running the country now could not be more tin foil hat.

The federal estate tax exemption—that's the amount an individual can leave to heirs without having to pay federal estate tax—will be $5.43 million in 2015, up from $5.34 million for 2014. That's another $90,000 that can be passed on tax-free. The top federal estate tax rate is

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaeb...#64b8572d738f%.

If taxing people past $5.4 million is communism I don't know what to say.

[Tijuana]

The federal estate tax exemption—that's the amount an individual can leave to heirs without having to pay federal estate tax—will be $5.43 million in 2015, up from $5.34 million for 2014. That's another $90,000 that can be passed on tax-free. The top federal estate tax rate is

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaeb...#64b8572d738f%.

If taxing people past $5.4 million is communism I don't know what to say.

And not one person has ever paid a dime of it because trust funds are a thing. It's really a moot point, to be honest.

[Danner]

Many on the fringe of the libertarian movement in the US hold this view of taxation, inherently being theft. What is your opinion on it? Personally I see it as a cost of living within a boundary.

Very clickbait headline

I like the concept of taxes, and I do not mind paying taxes as long as they money isn't squandered. Everyone will disagree what squandering means; but for me, society is there to help each other. Taxes allow public funding of services that benefit many people. Roads, sanitation, healthcare, public schooling, police, fire brigades, defence, social welfare etc. I generally do not mind higher taxes if these services can be better.

It's really all a matter of how much you feel you're getting from the taxes. Generally, as long as you get something in return, I don't think taxes are bad at all. I'd rather pay higher taxes so society can provide for the needing, than having to provide for the needing personally. It's really a question of decency - nobody should be forced to beg. Society should take care of those who need it without anyone having to resorting to those solutions.

Of course, taxes can go too high.

The awesome swedish children's book author Astrid Lindgren ended up paying 102% income tax at some point. She even wrote a fairy tale about it. When the swedish finance minister subsequently mocked her and called her a liar in the swedish parliament, and it turned out she wasn't lying at all, that was cited as the direct reason they weren't re-elected.

I believe a lot of tax money is spent extremely inefficiently, often with effects that would be hilarious if they weren't so sad. Take the process of building a road in Norway. It takes 40 years to build a road in this country, and once it is finally built it is already outdated. Enjoy the car ride... .

Or the military. Norway has got to be the only country in the world with more senior officers than actual soldiers. I wish I was kidding. And we were kinda forced to buy some fighter airplanes that doesn't work and never arrive. To afford all this, the military decided to to eliminate a source of military expenses: Sidearms. Norwegian solders are no longer issued sidearms, to save money. Should Russia ever decide to go finalize the "invade all neighbours" achievement (Norway being the only neighbour remaining) I'm sure they will have a laugh.

Squandering money is not a norwegian problem by any means. It's the same everywhere. We had a lovely case of corruption a few years back where a public water plant were quizzed by the accountants as to why they were investing money in an african savannah ranch. It is rare to see corruption that blatant. Usually it's a bit more hidden. Like obscene tax cuts for the wealthy.

[alexw]

I'm not here to educate you. But I don't know, just off the top of my head, the Federal Highway fund, for starters. The simple fact that roads are built at all levels of government should be another clue for you. But really, I tried to correct you but it's not like I will lose sleep over some random person thinking the gas tax pays for all roads. /shrug

- - - Updated - - -



Death taxes are wealth redistribution. That's communism at its most basic level. Capital does not "continually build up over generations", as most people have more than one off spring. It's divided up again and again and again, as we breed more an more. Just look at the Waltons, for example. The biggest fortune ever created has already been split 5 different ways. And then they will have several children, and so on. The overwhelming majority of millionaires are self made. I know that doesn't fit your world view but, facts are facts. This notion that all the wealthy people in the US came over on the Mayflower and are just running the country now could not be more tin foil hat.

Sorry but you are wrong on this. It didn't used to precisely because we had heavy taxation of wealth. It redistributed those monies away from aristocracy formation. Now that is gone and we are back where we were 100 odd years ago. Wealth is rapidly accumulating within a tiny substrate of society and if its not stopped aristocracy here we come. Here is a graph of what is happening to wealth -



The evidence is clear, we are nearly at a new gilded age with its Vanderbilts, Rockerfellers, etc. And the money does not find its way back down through society over time either. It did not in the past and it will not this time around. Again the evidence is clear. As wealth concentration grows so does the importance of inheritance. It becomes harder and harder for people to be self-made as the in-built advantage of inherited wealth increasingly dominates.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014...ew-gilded-age/

[Cannibalus]

2016 tax plans in regards to estate tax.

Hillary: Increases the top estate tax rate to 45%, and lowers the estate tax exclusion to $3.5 million.
Bernie: Increases the top estate tax rate to 65%, and lowers the estate tax exclusion to $3.5 million.
Ted: eliminates
Trump: eliminates.


Yes this is theft. This money was already taxed. It should not be taxes again upon death. Would you want to work hard to provide you family with security upon your passing then have it taxed again!!

Wow... is obvious theft... if these things are legal and part of a system, where is the world going? Will we pay tax for sitting in the bus station for more than 5 minutes? Right now taxes in Romania multiply like rats but well, here they don't tax the rich.

[Hammerfest]

Is taxation theft?

I'd say it definitely can be... particularly if a government takes more than they need and/or if they spend it frivolously.

[Betelgeuse]

Taxation is theft. Legal theft, since the organization doing the taxing makes and enforces the laws. Which makes it not really theft at all. Just...taxes.

[Damajin]

Is taxation theft?

I'd say it definitely can be... particularly if a government takes more than they need and/or if they spend it frivolously.

Which they always do, which is why the government needs to be as small as possible and regulated to death to make sure it doesn't grow beyond such. People complain about deregulating corporations which is a worthy argument then are for full throated unrestrained government which is always worse because it has the full means of the nation behind it.

We should always mistrust our government, and seek to keep it small, shackled and focused on the bare necessities exclusively.

[jeleopard]

Hi, Libertarian here.

"Taxation is theft" usually is associated with income tax.

Which is theft. It's my money, I work for it. Get yer own.

[Rasulis]

I do, I drive on privatized Japanese highways where tolls are collected to pay for it by private companies and I ride the subway which is payed for by private train companies that own individual lines.

Personally I think the roadway toll system in Japan is a bit excessive. The last time I drove from Tokyo to Nagoya, it cost me $70 in toll. Also, per Japan's own MLIT, the cost of roadway construction per km in Japan is much higher than in the U.S. Although it is true than in the U.S. we have fewer sections of bridges and tunnels, and less severe geotechnical conditions and seismic design standards.