[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

What're you running there?

At a glance I'm guessing: Demonic Appetite, Prepared, First Blood, Nemesis, Unleashed Power, and Demonic, for certain?

How was that build in regards to feeling in a raid environment?

[Freds1234]

Havoc seems to be performing quite poorly in those logs?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Why are there so many entries for death sweep?

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Why are there so many entries for death sweep?

There's multiple of Blade Dance too, each strike from the ability seems to have it's own ID or something i suppose.

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Havoc seems to be performing quite poorly in those logs?

It's alpha, the numbers tuning isn't much of a blip on the radar quite yet.

[Vanyali]

What're you running there?

At a glance I'm guessing: Demonic Appetite, Prepared, First Blood, Nemesis, Unleashed Power, and Demonic, for certain?

How was that build in regards to feeling in a raid environment?

Yar, that was the build.

There's multiple of Blade Dance too, each strike from the ability seems to have it's own ID or something i suppose.

It hits 3 times, none of them tied to each other

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Tich logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D4w1rnTZvLQCgyc3/

First halfish was a nemesis / chaos blades / demon blades build, second build was a bloodlet demonic build.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

It hits 3 times, none of them tied to each other

That was more or less what i meant, just worded poorly.

[Vanyali]

That was more or less what i meant, just worded poorly.

i was backing you and your baby up, you billy

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

i was backing you and your baby up, you billy

dafuq you just call me? You having a giggle?

BRB. Sending an angry cow.

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Angry cow aside, good to see that Blade Dance got its due, which means I can needlessly fixate my energy on other things that seem to be bordering on being glaring issues.

Stupid Demon Reborn.

[Snarfysnarf]

real sad about annihilate being single target only now, guess it was too strong

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

real sad about annihilate being single target only now, guess it was too strong

Had to look for myself: the tooltip seems to indicate that it does only hit one target now; can the testers confirm if it's working like that?

That's actually pretty in line with how they've gone through the motions of establishing Blade Dance / Death Sweep as the AoE spender. I was thinking they'd make it split its damage rather than just increasing its damage essentially and calling it something else just because you're in Metamorphosis.

Might as well just have meta say "increases the damage of Chaos Strike and Blade Dance by x%".

Was I late to the party for this? I would think this might've been mentioned sooner and I just missed that particular discussion :/

[Deleted]

Damn, thats disapponting, Annihilation making Chaos Strike cleave was such a cool mechanic !

[pharix]

Angry cow aside, good to see that Blade Dance got its due, which means I can needlessly fixate my energy on other things that seem to be bordering on being glaring issues.

Stupid Demon Reborn.

and Demonic!!!

[bloodkraven]

Had to look for myself: the tooltip seems to indicate that it does only hit one target now; can the testers confirm if it's working like that?

That's actually pretty in line with how they've gone through the motions of establishing Blade Dance / Death Sweep as the AoE spender. I was thinking they'd make it split its damage rather than just increasing its damage essentially and calling it something else just because you're in Metamorphosis.

Might as well just have meta say "increases the damage of Chaos Strike and Blade Dance by x%".

Was I late to the party for this? I would think this might've been mentioned sooner and I just missed that particular discussion :/

I just tested it and it does not cleave anymore. I really don't like the way they are changing Meta. Instead of your abilities being changed and do new things they just do more damage? Feels really boring to be honest.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I just tested it and it does not cleave anymore. I really don't like the way they are changing Meta. Instead of your abilities being changed and do new things they just do more damage? Feels really boring to be honest.

Second this sentiment. While I like that Death Sweep / Blade Dance are your go-to for AoE, I think it would be colder if the mechanics of the ability were changed slightly instead of only getting a damage increase and name change.

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and Demonic!!!

O.o

You no like Demonic? While I'm not particularly interested in the talent myself, it's most certainly more intriguing than Demon Reborn, IMO of course.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I just tested it and it does not cleave anymore. I really don't like the way they are changing Meta. Instead of your abilities being changed and do new things they just do more damage? Feels really boring to be honest.

I can see why they don't want it change abilities though after Demonology altered nearly all your abilities in meta and that was deemed too complicated. I don't agree with why they did it, but it's supposedly the whole reason behind the Demo revamp so it makes sense that Havoc's is just a damage increase.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Totally agree on the Meta recent changes with you guys. We'll see what happens. Wish I had alpha access so I could give them some feedback, tweeting random devs my DH thought of the day isn't very effective haha.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I can see why they don't want it change abilities though after Demonology altered nearly all your abilities in meta and that was deemed too complicated. I don't agree with why they did it, but it's supposedly the whole reason behind the Demo revamp so it makes sense that Havoc's is just a damage increase.

I think (IMO obviously) It's rather silly to change the name of the abilities but have them unchanged in how they mechanically function and essentially just deal more damage. Not saying they should become totally different a la current Demonology, would just be *cool* if they did something in addition to a damage increase.

[Factor]

real sad about annihilate being single target only now, guess it was too strong

It's a good change. Makes the tuning of the ability MUCH easier. Its an extension of your primary ST ability. You have death sweep for AOE, DHs don't need a very heavy hitting AOE and a spamable AOE ability in the same window. With all the AOE tools DHs have I think it's ok to lose one, especially since it can now be tuned to keep them competitive in single target damage as well.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I think (IMO obviously) It's rather silly to change the name of the abilities but have them unchanged in how they mechanically function and essentially just deal more damage. Not saying they should become totally different a la current Demonology, would just be *cool* if they did something in addition to a damage increase.

Yeah I agree. I just don't think Blizzard will go that route after scrapping the current Demonology.

Maybe they also removed the cleave effect from annihilation to make the Chaos Cleave talent more appealing? Has the range on that been improved yet?

[neck deep]

it's a good change in hopes that demon hunter single target gets brought in line, yes, but it's also a little flavor, and a lot of power that we just lost. blade dance doesn't make up for the sustained aoe damage hit we took, yet. i know that's all tuning, and we're likely to not see that for a while, so i'll reserve judgement, but the least they could do is make annihilation function with chaos cleave, to compensate, a little.

Maybe they also removed the cleave effect from annihilation to make the Chaos Cleave talent more appealing? Has the range on that been improved yet?

it's range is still not amazing but it seems a bit more functional. annihilation however doesn't work with chaos cleave at all, as far as i can tell, from raid testing yesterday. bloods were stacked inside of each other and not being cleaved with annihilation so it was almost better to not be in meta and just chaos strike down two rather than murder one and do nothing but death sweep the others.