Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Charge me Doctor]

Why people talk about semantics? Yes, you can't steal an IP, but when laws were forged they haven't thought about IP like movies and/or videogames, it's basically new technological stuff and law-definitions can't adapt to them at this rate, but instead of making proper term they just call it "theft"

[Ehuehuecopter]

I don't get why some people are so butthurt over this server existing... It's like: "oh no other people are having fun with something that isn't available anymore through retail, don't these suckers know retail wow is masterrace, it has to be because I find it better than vanilla"... It was a server with a huge fanbase, sad to see it go. I only played to level 20 and started a few weeks ago but in the hours that I played I met a lot of great people.

What are your problems with other people having fun on a blizzlike vanilla server? It doesn't harm you in any way... This world's gone sour.

Because they want everybody to pay money to stay afk in the garrison until Legion, share the pain.

[Kolvarg]

Again, you and your opinions are wrong.

Not opinion imo, just different understanding of what stealing means. It's not that it's not illegal because he doesn't consider it theft, just that for him copyright infrigment, while illegal, is not the same as theft.

And while objectivelly you may be able to use both ways to describe it, for most people the 2 things will have different meanings and feelings associated:

ie: stealing physical materials which require materials to produce each copy of the product (stealing an orange; stealing a car; stealing a phone) effectivly results directly in the complete loss of the investment made for that individual piece.

Copyright / Intellectual property infringement on the other hand does not remove anything from the owner, because a digital copy of a program takes almost no cost to produce. Yes, it might still result in loss of profit for the owner, but it's a potential loss, and it happens indirectly (user didn't buy the program because he was able to get it for free). There is a difference between stealing a piece that has production costs for each piece vs something that has nearly the same production independently of how many copies are sold.

Yes, both are illegal. But they're not the same, even if you are objectively able to describe them with the same word.

And this case is special because the content that was "stolen" doesn't even exist anymore for the most part. The major infringment is of using intelelctual property without a license, which honestly I find hard to see as "stealing".

[Reapocalypse]

Copying without permission = theft.

Its actually abit different in this case, we are using a 1.3(iirc) client (wich is obviously a patched version of the original disk version) ,im not quite sure if blizzard ever gave the full client with all the data out for download or not. This is downloaded by the User on a third Website, the Server he connects to is completly built by the Devs of the Server since Blizzard themselves confirmed that the old code is entirely lost, wich makes the act of Theft on the Users side for illegaly downloading the old client wich is still copyrighted by Blizz with all data that comes with it.

So how exactly can Blizzard sue the Serverhoster for Copyright now? or did i miss something entirely?

[munkeyinorbit]

If I made a game, then abandonned it, then had people asking me to republish it said them "fuck you, buy my new game instead" and then someone ended up posting up my old game because I refused to do so, then I would have only myself to blame.

Yourself to blame for not enforcing your copyright? I agree. You would only have yourself to blame for letting thieves steal your work and act as if it is their own work.

[Deleted]

So you go into the cinema with a camera, you record a copy of the film you are watching.

FACT = Federation against copyright THEFT is a UK organisation who deals with that.

It's not theft. Obviously it's illegal, but it's not theft. They might call it copyright "theft", but they are twisting the meaning of that word, only because they know that if they call it theft it makes people go "Oh my god, they are thieves? How could they do this, everybody knows that stealing is wrong." It's just to make it sound more dramatic, so that the plebs will think it's justified to punish these people with years of prison. It is not actually theft. It would only be theft if they took the original piece of film, that the cinema was using to show the movie. Then they would be stealing the property of the cinema.

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

There is right, there is wrong and then there is law.

Obviously this server was illegal, however I think it was wrong to shut it down. I see private servers as sort of like a fan site. Blizzard doesn't shut down fan sites who use their intellectual property. Why shut down a server that offers a version of vanilla wow when blizzard outright refuses to offer it to fans? They said they will never have vanilla severs for us, so why not allow us to make our own?

[Deleted]

I just don't understand why blizz won't make legacy servers! Look at this courtesy of r/wow https://gyazo.com/945aa97382bd4a2f4e49a662b5ff6399. Have you EVER seen ironforge that busy? They should HIRE the people that made Nost - they're just shooting themselves in the foot for no reason, it's madness. Meanwhile everyone is stuck with bloody dead WoD.

[Raiju]

1. There's no case for them either way since people are using a client that Blizzard distributed for free, and the server files the people hosting the server are using are custom-made.
2. There is no profit to be gained for them
3. Blizzard can give exceptions to private servers if they want. EverQuest clearly has a good relationship with several private server owners, as evidenced when they launched their legacy servers. Even if Blizz allows #privateserver1 to exist, doesn't mean they have to allow #privateserver2 to exist.

I don't think the case would stand in court, but Nos devs probably want to maintain friendly relationship towards Blizz, which is understandable - afterall, it's them that provided us with the game we love.

If only we could convince Blizzard to support the private server scene in someway, that would be a big step forwards.

1. They are using Blizzards trademarked names & characters. Game set & match.
2. There is profit to be gained from the hosting company, who was accepting money from people in exchange for running the server & has plenty to give up in damages.
3. Blizzard has to officially endorse them, there are no 'exceptions'. If they don't approve of the people behind the server or do not know enough about them this is a dangerous option.

We'll see if it stands in court because that's where it's going for the hosting company.

[Boathouse]

Why are people discussing the legal issues though? I mean everyone should know that it is obviously not legal because it's pretty much the same as piracy. The issue here is that this is a product there is a massive demand for, and Blizzard who could provide that product is simply not providing it. There is no legal option, without the private servers vanilla WoW is dead and lost forever. Just imagine if Nintendo decided to sue every single emulator website out there and take down all of them, everyone who doesn't own a functional Game Boy, SNES or Nintendo 64 would never have access to those games ever again.

Most of it, at least in my case, is directed to the people who are thinking Blizzard is the bad guy for shutting them down. I'm not really defending Blizzard per say, I'm defending the right of companies to defend their IPs. It just worries me that people are more than willing to ignore laws and blame them for protecting their stuff. A crime is a crime no matter how big or small it is, that's what I'm trying to push here. Once you start downplaying one crime, when does it stop? Who decides what should be ignored? Do I think there should be servers for the stuff? Yeah it'd be neat, I even made a pretty fun suggestion to how I wish Blizzard would do it like PoE does leagues. Do I think people should be able to run this stuff while breaking the law because some people feel it's ok? No. No I don't.

[Deleted]

Because they want everybody to pay money to stay afk in the garrison until Legion, share the pain.

I can understand Blizzard's point of view on this even if I don't agree, what I don't understand is the moral crusaders here. They have such a hatred for the nostalrius server for some reason, calling it good riddance when it didn't effect them in any way. Why would you be happy that the hard work of some people goes down the drain. My guess is that they're sour over being wrong that there is high demand for a vanilla server.

[Deleted]

You're wrong, If i worked for a bank and i took your bank details (original still remains) i'm its not stealing? According to you that the case, According to everyone else, That is stealing. fyi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_theft


Data theft is a growing phenomenon primarily caused by system administrators and office workers with access to technology such as database servers, desktop computers and a growing list of hand-held devices capable of storing digital information, such as USB flash drives, iPods and even digital cameras. Since employees often spend a considerable amount of time developing contacts and confidential and copyrighted information for the company they work for, they may feel they have some right to the information and are inclined to copy and/or delete part of it when they leave the company, or misuse it while they are still in employment.

No, you're not stealing. You would only be stealing if you took money out of my bank account.

[Synadrasa]

Under the law, yes it is.



Legal terms. Learn them,



Yes it is. Using copyrighted materials and resources, muc, art all without permission in violation of copyright law: theft of intellectual property

You can use copyrighted materials without permission, its called fair use. Go to youtube and look at 90% of the songs on there.

[kaintk]

I just don't understand why blizz won't make legacy servers! Look at this courtesy of r/wow https://gyazo.com/945aa97382bd4a2f4e49a662b5ff6399. Have you EVER seen ironforge that busy? They should HIRE the people that made Nost - they're just shooting themselves in the foot for no reason, it's madness. Meanwhile everyone is stuck with bloody dead WoD.

because you think thoses peoples will spend money each month to play on legacy server ? lol , people on those free server are just kid with no money;p

[Boathouse]

You can use copyrighted materials without permission, its called fair use. Go to youtube and look at 90% of the songs on there.

It's a grey area. If the companies or persons say they don't want their stuff used, then no, no you can't. They can force you to take it down.

[Rehok]

And this is why you don't put a megaphone in front of your already considerably big mouth shouting the damn server's name. I get no joy from seeing many people lose their source of fun, but some of them deserve it. The loud, obnoxious ones, who couldn't keep their mouth shut for one minute about their glorious Vanilla server.

Hope everyone else can find a comparable server, though.

Good point. Smart people usually keep their mouth shut about illegal stuff. Imagine people on streets being like "oh my god i know one drug dealer his stuff is so fucking good!". Yeah.

So is this now going to turn into a "blame the streamer" game?

[Fenixdown]

Steal? How is it stealing?

They're not taking money for anything, how is this any different than Fair use?

Because they own the copyrights to the World of Warcraft name, for one. And for two, they're the developer of the game and didn't give permissions to the private server developer(s) to produce the product. Corporate law says hello.

Honestly, these people should count their blessings that this is all Blizzard did. Were I the one making the decision, the shutdown would have followed layers knocking on their doors with the police with prosecutions of corporate theft.

[Deleted]

because you think thoses peoples will spend money each month to play on legacy server ? lol , people on those free server are just kid with no money;p

Why couldn't blizz provide legacy servers for free or discounted? These random people could just volunteering. Acti Blizz is a multi billion dollar company. They could even do it buy to play like the old arena tournament events.

[Deleted]

because you think thoses peoples will spend money each month to play on legacy server ? lol , people on those free server are just kid with no money;p

Not rly i know ppl from private servers that spend like 500-1k euro for around 1-3 years.

[Deleted]

It's a grey area. If the companies or persons say they don't want their stuff used, then no, no you can't. They can force you to take it down.

B-BUT.. YOU'RE STEALING FROM THEM!!!! Did you create the material? No. Did you use it without their permission? Yes. So you are literally stealing from them. Why do you think that is ok?