Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Theoris]

Bullshit; their in-game systems are outdated and as anti-innovation as possible. Their story has regressed massively and the lore is terribly formatted. The world environment is obsolete and unused.

And that excuses IP theft...?

[shimerra]

Yes, because it will be better than current content. If current content is like WoD that is. Somehow I doubt it will get better just because they are using the Legion, Illidan and Demon Hunters for their next expansion.

Once again, in your horribly ridiculously biased Opinion. No market research, no insight into blizzard's cost structures, nothing. You just want Vanilla, you enjoyed it, I enjoyed it too. Sorry that not everyone, especially blizzard, agrees that bringing back Vanilla so that player base can piss and moan about balance fixes/no content after they don't even justify the return in the first place.



And I'm having plenty of fun with current content. 6 of my IRL buddies and I are currently running a Xrealm pub using the LFM tool, something we'd never be able to do in any other expansion. If this was any other expansion the fact that we were the crippling 2-3 players short of a 10 man we'd be fucked. Garrison's were a mediocre, but the things I enjoy are still decent. It's not my favorite expansion and there's def things I'd change, but don't mistake your pissing and moaning for Vanilla or discontent as a valid reason to belittle the rest of us that are enjoying. I love TBC, by far and away my favorite time in WoW. Doesn't mean I ever want to stamp my feet and cry until blizzard makes a special TBC server and I'd never expect them to make a special server just for me even if I wanted to replay TBC. And I definitely wouldn't be surprised if I were to make a private server of TBC in a country that America has good standing with and has comparable views on copyright law to America if my server got shut down because they defended their property.

I have zero issues with Blizzard starting a Legacy server, assuming it's a smart business decision. All evidence points to it not being unless viewed through horribly nostalgia/entitlement goggles.

[Dormie]

Yeah and just how many of those 800k actually played more than a few hours before they realised that nostalgia can't be relived dingus?

Anyone using the nostalgia argument is instantly disqualified from discussion.

[Deleted]

No one knows the actual figures, so please don't just make them up. !9% because it was free, imagine the retention rate if there was a sub...

Uh, yeh we do. 800k registered, 150k active. Do the arithmetic, buddy. It isn't too hard.

And that excuses IP theft...?

No, lol. Neither does Nostalrius' actions excuse Blizzard's regressive design philosophy.

[Saeran]

We don't know the reasons for a lot of the turnover though, that's the thing.

If you enjoyed playing Dark Souls, would you play an illegal copy of DS3 if it could be shut down at any time, risking the loss of your 80 hr playthrough just before you finish?

If I hadn't played DS in a while, maybe I'd try it. But I wouldn't sink any real effort into it and risk wasting a ton of time.

Maybe I'd try it, but I'd be too afraid I'd lose all of those hours to actually put real time into an illegal version of it.

This is the problem. No one knows the figures. It's all too much of a gamble for anyone to reasonably expect Blizzard to take.

Personally, with playing a lot in Vanilla, I would actually like to try an official Vanilla server, but I am under no illusion that I would stop for very long. Vanilla was great in its day, but made great because it was new and the people I played with at that time. That simply wouldn't be there any more for me and I am sure I would not be alone.

Uh, yeh we do. 800k registered, 150k active. Do the arithmetic, buddy. It isn't too hard.

I was referring to the '81%'. And I am not your 'buddy' nor a dingus.

[Drpizka]

581 pages in; Nobody yet realizes that people want Vanilla servers only because nobody is developing a modern product that uses Vanilla's design philosophy effectively.

People should be moreso arguing for the modern product than something as trivial as classic servers, but it won't happen; as people somehow believe a fun MMORPG can only exist if it's from an antiquated version of the game. No; you can still make things fun, you're just not used to it in 2016.

THIS!! Thank you!

[zorkuus]

I can say then I don't believe that you speak for enough people to say it's not worth creating.

Works both ways, except yet again, we can point to private server activity as proof that there are people who are interested in this. There's nothing on the other side.

We can point to private servers for proof there's people interested in a free game, anything outside that is pure guesswork from either side.

[Lorianus]

If we put profit margins and subscriptions aside; please use the consumer demand to suggest that people maybe, just maybe, would like a Vanilla-conceptual, modern MMORPG that's build for 2016, rather than 2004.



It's almost as if they care about having an enjoyable game, more than they care about a Multi-billion dollar company's woes about losing a few pennies to a passion-project. WOW.

Oh please can we stop romantacising this topic they are not some robin hoods who do it for the good of the people,the world works on laws and rules and not on some ideological moral highgrounds.

[Akka]

they'd still be throwing away a lot of money they had to spend to get vanilla servers going and yet again, do you see the outcry they're getting now? imagine if they shut down one of their own servers. once it was there it's just becoming a bigger and bigger money pit to them but if they pull the plug, yes they can say "hey we tried and it didn't work" but there would be some much forum rage it wouldn't even be funny

It's a tiny investment for a small risk. It doesn't require a lot of development and can be managed as a test case being fully released (if there is an actual interest).
Busting WoD is "throwing a lot of money". Bringing up a few Vanilla servers isn't. I recognize the difficulties (and they are not in money but more in organization/reorganization) but you're just blowing it out of proportions.

[Atelniar]

581 pages in; Nobody yet realizes that people want Vanilla servers only because nobody is developing a modern product that uses Vanilla's design philosophy effectively.

People should be moreso arguing for the modern product than something as trivial as classic servers, but it won't happen; as people somehow believe a fun MMORPG can only exist if it's from an antiquated version of the game. No; you can still make things fun, you're just not used to it in 2016.



At a maximum, 81%.

19% retention rate out of 800k is shockingly sustainable for a private, non-profit Blizzlike server.

Any numbers on retention rate of retail? Oh, wait, it isn't available anymore? Yea. Why? Because apparantly it is no longer a useful metric in terms of finances for Blizzard.

Blizzard has catered to too many different demographics since WotLK and onwards. Core values that made this specific MMORPG a social phenomena more so than a popular title has been ignored for years. In favour of adapting for the masses and adhering to the needs of players who do not enjoy an open-world hub. Re-invigorate such an idea? Blizzard doesn't want to, and they are borderline clueless as to how to do so at this point. WoD has proven that, yet they still feel the need to push the idea of the player being a glorified hero down people's throat rather than make you one among many in a living and breathing world with its own rules you have to adjust to. Oh, not to mention that garrisons completely destroyed the economy and broke gold as a relevant currency.

They can not re-invent this particular title by implementing a new content patch. You'd have to reset the entire franchise, and even that would not work. The above paragraph explains why classic servers are popular. It's called time-travel. Nostalgia does not need to be a completely subjective matter, sometimes things were better in the past with a certain perspective.

/golfclap

They got stuck in the mud.

[DarkAmbient]

Damn, almost 600 pages and no sign of slowing down yet.

[Deleted]

Oh please can we stop romantacising this topic they are not some robin hoods who do it for the good of the people,the world works on laws and rules and not on some ideological moral highgrounds

No, we cannot stop romanticising the topic. They are robin hoods as far as I'm concerned; they made no profit off of it, devoted hundreds of hours to developing serverside code, for the players.

They deserve the moral highground, because they gave the players something they'd been denied for years. An entertaining product.

[Akka]

If we put profit margins and subscriptions aside; please use the consumer demand to suggest that people maybe, just maybe, would like a Vanilla-conceptual, modern MMORPG that's build for 2016, rather than 2004.

It's almost as if they care about having an enjoyable game, more than they care about a Multi-billion dollar company's woes about losing a few pennies to a passion-project. WOW.

That would be the ideal solution. And, I fathom, this is the real reason that the insanely zealous anti-pserver players are, well, insanely zealous : because they're afraid all this noise makes Blizzard actually goes back closer to a Vanilla design, which is something they hate - did you notice that the vast majority of anti-pserver poster is made of people who are always on the anti-Vanilla side when discussing design of the retail game ?

[Shoopuf]

Yeah and just how many of those 800k actually played more than a few hours before they realised that nostalgia can't be relived dingus?

https://www.superdataresearch.com/bl...mmo-retention/

On average, 6.21% of players who logged in for the first time in the 1st month a game is released will log on 360 days after their first login.

150k out of 800k would be 3 times the average of a f2p mmo

[zorkuus]

No, we cannot stop romanticising the topic. They are robin hoods as far as I'm concerned; they made no profit off of it, devoted hundreds of hours to developing serverside code, for the players.

They deserve the moral highground, because they gave the players something they'd been denied for years. An entertaining product.

"denied"... as if you're entitled to it. This thread is a beautiful trainwreck indeed.

That would be the ideal solution. And, I fathom, this is the real reason that the insanely zealous anti-pserver players are, well, insanely zealous : because they're afraid all this noise makes Blizzard actually goes back closer to a Vanilla design, which is something they hate - did you notice that the vast majority of anti-pserver poster is made of people who are always on the anti-Vanilla side when discussing design of the retail game ?

I wouldn't mind them lifting some ideas from vanilla design, but not everything. There was lots of bad design there aswell.

[Deleted]

Anyone using the nostalgia argument is instantly disqualified from discussion.

Yup.

Nothing of value is gained by bringing in legacy servers

If it were to get rid of you it's debatable. kek

[Deleted]

No, we cannot stop romanticising the topic. They are robin hoods as far as I'm concerned; they made no profit off of it, devoted hundreds of hours to developing serverside code, for the players.

Well someone did make a profit off of it even if it wasn't the Nost team. Those donations went somewhere. And I am pretty sure it wasn't Blizzard.

[shimerra]

Nostalrius didn't accept donations outside of the $500 it cost for them to keep the servers up every month.



Yeah, WoD's net Negative 5 million players would also be called a loss 'by some'.

I'm sure bringing Vanilla back would make nobody pay any attention; they should just make continually more shitty expansions. You've obviously got the right idea.

Those some would be idiots. WoW by all accounts is still profitable, even if the return on it has gotten smaller. In your small mind it is probably entirely because the expansions are factually shittier, ignoring the fact that that's not fact but opinion. All of those expansions except this one were irrefutably more successful than Vanilla, and yet that's the one you demand we go back to?


Your child like tantrum throwing demanding your idealized time in WoW be brought back to appease you regardless of anything else isn't helping. It's not about the fact for you it's about what you feel entitled to. Rather than accept the reality that comparatively you are far less qualified to judge whether or not Legacy server's would be a success than Blizzard you seek to collect fragments of reality and interpret them in such a way that makes your dream possible. That's what drives me nuts about private server defenders and legacy server proponents. 99% baseless speculation and 1/100th's assed arm chair company running fueled entirely by bullshit.


Which once again does nothing to refute my claim that a new expansion even if it's "shittier" as you feel isn't a better return on investment than Vanilla. And you can't, because you're not blizzard. And your want isn't enough to support your claims.

Uh, yeh we do. 800k registered, 150k active. Do the arithmetic, buddy. It isn't too hard.



No, lol. Neither does Nostalrius' actions excuse Blizzard's regressive design philosophy.

The irony of you claiming for others to do the arithmetic. Know what important part of the equation you're missing? Blizzard's entire cost structure and the actual market analysis after they charge a fee. But keep up with your fairy tail assertions.

You're pissing and moaning for a legacy server, the very definition of regressive design, and then you post that comment? Good god do you read what you type?

[Deleted]

"denied"... as if you're entitled to it. This thread is a beautiful trainwreck indeed.

So entitled, wanting fun from a video game. Video games are not meant to be fun you entitled bunch of socially destructive monsters. kek

[Saeran]

https://www.superdataresearch.com/bl...mmo-retention/


150k out of 800k would be 3 times the average of a f2p mmo

The thing is, an official Vanilla server, if there ver was one, wouldn't be FTP, so those figures mean nothing.