Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

Understandably, losing both the time the put into their characters as well as the community they built together is very, very hurtful.
But to stick around and lash out like this isn't much of a conversation, 12k posts later. I'm glad Blizzard is staying quiet about this - a peep from them will become a focal point for all this toxicity.

Aye they will rebuild... Private server players are the wow players of vanilla - wrath. The quality stock of players that built this game from the ground up. They will rebuild. Maybe one day retail will cater them again and they will return. Maybe not I am glad enough for what I have. Who knows maybe I will try cata after I beat tbc this time.

[Alyxanna]

Calling it a crime is a joke.. But falls right in line with the sensationalism and Blizzard apologia that plagues this forum.

Infringing copyright is against the law. What else would you call it?

[Lorianus]

I think im having deja vu's, it starts all over again for the 10th time.

[Spikedhammer]

I'm a touch more bent at the fact Blizzard is trying to say "this isn't want people want" when a more appropriate phrase would be "there isn't a substantial enough reward for us to take the risk".

Why Blizzard doesn't take the risk is their business, but that general notion applies. Yet at the same time, Blizzard telling people "No, you're wrong." when a decent amount of people obviously felt passionate about a certain aspect of the game long gone...? That's just them putting their foot in their mouth. Nothing new, and nothing we won't see in the years to come, I'm certain.

I agree that much with Jontron at least. And it's my personal opinion that this recent action is to try and reason their own judgment considering they only took notice now.

Whether people or not share my thoughts, I don't care. I wanted to put it out there.

[Darkeon]

Doesn't matter.

You are claiming the game World of Warcraft is not available officially. That is simply untrue. World of Warcraft has been a game with changing features available since 2004. Just another lie perpetuated by the pro-legacy crowd.

Are you claiming that someone playing WoW, for the first time, today is going to have the same, exact experience as someone playing, for the first time, back when Vanilla was current?
If you are not, then that means they are two different experiences. And I don't think that's even debatable.

Is it the same game? Sure, it's "World of Warcraft". Are they the same experience? Not the slightest.

[Deleted]

I'm still plenty social in Live. If you're having social issues, that's a personal problem, not a Blizzard problem.

Besides, from what I've seen of the pro-legacy server community here, on Facebook, and on reddit... Why would anyone want to be social with them?

Have you even played in vanilla? This is an insult for everyone who played it, I'm sure we were all connected and even today I can name ALL players who were pvping when I was ranking my character, even enemies and ALL people from my progress guild and even those I never talked with like first guy on server with Raggy hammer. But from TBC on, I only remember close friends. This is what social aspect means for vanilla.

[Blade Wolf]

this is not the case people played it because it offered something blizzard did not the cost is irrelevant 15 euro sub/wow can be free even with token so this makes no sense.

If people want the vanilla experience on live they have to deal with no tokens because... yeah then it's not vanilla.

[Dhrizzle]

Maybe someone else can explain it better to me, but why now? The server apparently has been going on for awhile. But now, it apparently became really popular, that they decided to put a stop to it. Not to mention, there ARE other private servers out there, so why not go after them now too? Why not all at once? Shouldn't the other vanilla servers been hit with this at the same time as Nos?

Over the past few weeks and months I've seen more and more mentions of Nos on forums and the like, it might just have got too big and too visible for Blizzard to ignore any more. Remember IP holders have to actively defend their rights or risk losing them.

Someone also mentioned that Nos recently started asking for donations to keep the servers going, that might have crossed a line that either allowed or forced Blizzard to take action.

[Pantalaimon]

Are you claiming that someone playing WoW, for the first time, today is going to have the same, exact experience as someone playing, for the first time, back when Vanilla was current?
If you are not, then that means they are two different experiences. And I don't think that's even debatable.

Is it the same game? Sure, it's "World of Warcraft". Are they the same experience? Not the slightest.

Again, this doesn't matter. In an MMORPG the game is not designed to remain frozen in an ever unchanging state. If you have this expectation you are seriously in the wrong genre of gaming.

[Deficineiron]

No comment on the amusing ambiguity of the post you're responding to?

lemme go look again later. i think i have read how folks playing private servers (occasionally including myself and including both mmo-c mods who have been policing this forum) are either thieves, criminals, or committing a crime so many time I have just assumed we all had avatars with jailbars in front.

[Gadzooks]

They could simply not release the code and take the hit from them instead of Blizzard, could they not? Assuming you are correct.

Take the hit from whom? As I understand it, the mango team would have to sue them. The GPL Conservatory might ask for their time and effort paid for if it was an issue, but the GPL is only enforced in courts, as a copyright infringement. As it's been explained to me, The Conservatory usually tries to get all parties in compliance when complaints are filed, they're not an oversight board and have no legal authority to sue or fine people. They act as arbitration in most cases, as most GPL violations are settled out of court.

And, as i understand it, they have no legal responsibility to share it at all - if I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm using the FAQ from gnu.org:

Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public? (#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic)
The GPL does not require you to release your modified version, or any part of it. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.

But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.

Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you.

[Deficineiron]

Note everyone hates WoD.

I think another part you are missing is myself and a few other simply want any sort of proof that legacy servers are viable. I completely understand that you love vanilla and want to play it again, I really do. What that being said, there has been zero evidence presented that legacy servers are in way, shape or form a good idea for blizzard. No one cane even answer the simple questions that myself and many others have asked.

serious question - define evidence that would rise to a level you accept.

I am not sure it CAN exist whether it is true or not, because the party that has the best ability to judge has not released hard data, and never does on any of the related topics.

[Dormie]

Again, this doesn't matter. In an MMORPG the game is not designed to remain frozen in an ever unchanging state. If you have this expectation you are seriously in the wrong genre of gaming.

And you're seriously just wrong. Changing is something MMORPGs tend to do, not something that defines them. Either way, there's more character progression in Vanilla than there is in MoP/Wod combined. And alts aren't nearly as viable as they have been since Wrath. Meaning much more play time.

[kary]

To be fair:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ments_removed/

It's the same game in franchise name only at this point.

Oh no, they took all the stupid aspects out.
I dunno why people always think that having to grind is an rpg element. RPGs are generally grindy, yes. But you can have an rpg without grinding.

[Darkeon]

lemme go look again later. i think i have read how folks playing private servers (occasionally including myself and including both mmo-c mods who have been policing this forum) are either thieves, criminals, or committing a crime so many time I have just assumed we all had avatars with jailbars in front.

Sorry, if it didn't matter this issue would be a non-issue. It's clearly a dividing topic, hence it has to matter to some people.

If, for you, the difference in experiences doesn't matter and everything is irrelevant and the same as it's on retail - why are you even interested in discussing the topic?
Trying to re-affirm that Illegal Private Servers are Illegal? That was confirmed in the first 5 pages of the thread, time to move on, Champ.

[Namalia]

Have you even played in vanilla? This is an insult for everyone who played it, I'm sure we were all connected to each other and even today I can name ALL names who were pvping when I was ranking my character, even enemies and ALL people from my progress guild and even those I never talked with but they caught my eye. But from TBC on, I only remember close friends. THis is what social aspect means for vanilla.

I've played for over 10 years. So, yes, I experienced the crappy community of Classic that all the legacy proponents try to paint in the most rose-colored light. It was HORRIBLE. It didn't start improving overall until Wrath.

[A dot Ham]

Completely free to question the morality of the issue.

What you are implying is that because it's illegal, it's immoral. And fortunately, we know that the world we live in doesn't work that way.

I actually didn't go into whether or not I felt that copyright infringement was illegal.

I was commenting on @Jester Joe's character judgement. Suggesting that in order for the act to be classified as "stealing" they would need to come out ahead or benefit from the act. His only point of reference for that "fact" is their word. Which he trusts implicitly because why would humanitarians such as these who donate time and money simply for "love of the game" have any reason to lie.

Copyright infringement IS stealing. Stealing IS immoral. There is no question here as to whether copyright infringement did or did not take place... it did, fact.

So regardless of their reasons, if a group of individuals wants to blur the lines between right and wrong "for love of the game" I believe their morality and therefore trustworthiness is at least questionable. So forgive me if I don't take their letter from their lawyer to their fans at face value.

Honestly though. Hypothetically these guys are the worst human beings on the planet, cyber terrorists, out to make a quick buck off of Blizzard's dime. Totally indignant and self righteous. Would you honestly expect them to behave any different if slapped with a lawsuit? Of course you would rally support from users, of course you would claim it wasn't for money and all for charity...

I don't know anyone who doesn't lie. Even my wife lies to me... she thinks she doesn't but she lies to herself, so she can't be trusted. Sarcasm is lost on the internet I am sure this one line will be the subject of subsequent responses.

[TOM_RUS]

And you're seriously just wrong. Changing is something MMORPGs tend to do, not something that defines them. Either way, there's more character progression in Vanilla than there is in MoP/Wod combined. And alts aren't nearly as viable as they have been since Wrath. Meaning much more play time.

I lol'ed hard on this one. Vanilla has barely anything at all compared to WoD...

[Deficineiron]

True, but you can make some educated guesses. Like the fact we can all agree that blizzard and its shareholders love money. If these servers were the cash cow that many people claim they are you would think blizzard would jump at the chance.

We can also try and get rid of some of the misconceptions about how easy this would be for blizzard and hope people understand that its not like they can just flip a switch and suddenly murlocs are the most dangerous end boss in the game again.

kotick is on record saying a project which doesn' thave 9-digit (annual revenue) potential isn't getting greenlighted. This elminates any profitable project proposal doing less than 100/m year potential revenue.

[Osmeric]

Infringing copyright is against the law. What else would you call it?

A tort? Civil vs. criminal law. There are criminal aspects of copyright law, but a large part is civil.