[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Ulthane]

Also @Aeluron Lightsong I will say that perhaps Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm COULD fit in the same category of functionality of Justicar's Vengeance but I feel JV should be a play style option.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

eh

If it generates holy power, then you need to reduce its damage by 1/3rd of a templars verdict, it might actually be nicer having the ability deal decent damage on its own.

Why? Judgement didn't use to give HP until Mop Set bonus and then in WoD and it still didn't hit hard even before the set bonus so that makes no damn sense. I just think Blizzard doesn't bother making Judgement hit hard regardless of the HP gain.

Also @Aeluron Lightsong I will say that perhaps Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm COULD fit in the same category of functionality of Justicar's Vengeance but I feel JV should be a play style option.

I mean, I think Divine Storm should still exist but perhaps make it doo much more then say Consecration(Up to Blizz to alter the damage difference)

I know people have preferences to abilities so I won't be mad about that.

Me though? I prefer Consecration.

[Metamorph]

Legion Judgement 'debuff' penalizes target switching!

Elemental Shamans are having the cd on flame shock essentially removed in Legion to fix their target swaping penalty.

Rogues and Ferals had combo points put on the player not the target ages ago to fix target swapping issues.

Other classes have similar issues but Rets don't atm and Legion is about to introduce it. Why? Is it our time to suck it up? I hate this idea. It wont lead to interesting choices, just frustration especially as Mythic dungeons are going to be a big part of the expansion and getting through multiple mobs quickly is key.

As someone who has mained an Ele Sham in the past, I can assure you it is absolutely maddening to do weak ass DPS when you have to switch targets!

[Ulthane]

Why? Judgement didn't use to give HP until Mop Set bonus and then in WoD and it still didn't hit hard even before the set bonus so that makes no damn sense. I just think Blizzard doesn't bother making Judgement hit hard regardless of the HP gain.




I mean, I think Divine Storm should still exist but perhaps make it doo much more then say Consecration(Up to Blizz to alter the damage difference)

I know people have preferences to abilities so I won't be mad about that.

Me though? I prefer Consecration.

Well if you read the big post above its a build for game play. All abilities could be buffed in damage but the game play itself is what im trying to illustrate.

[bloodmoth13]

Why? Judgement didn't use to give HP until Mop Set bonus and then in WoD and it still didn't hit hard even before the set bonus so that makes no damn sense. I just think Blizzard doesn't bother making Judgement hit hard regardless of the HP gain.

i mean at current, if we assume that they keep things balanced as they are, if they choose to add HP to judgement, then they will need to subtract the damage gain HP offers from the spells damage itself in order to keep it balanced, and the damage gain would be 1/3rd of a templars verdict

[Deleted]

I don´t want to be the spoilsport here but I don´t think Blizzard will budge from their current position no matter how ret will play out. The reasons for that I already pointed out in one of my earlier posts. I might sound overly negative but that is actually how many software companies work especially if they put the focus on a "efficent" and "dynamic" "evolution" of a piece of software.
I don´t want to disregard all of your thoughts right out, looking at Ulthanes suggestions I have to say it will well thought and easily balancing by tuning generation rates and such I really do like it. The only problem I see is that they will have to do some real designing and programming work instead of just recycling existing code. And that won´t be accepted by the management and especially the accounting. The argument that nothing will happen as long as the class is well represented overall is not far of the mark in business terms. The product is widely accepted and still has a string pull on new customers.
Our issue here is that paladins are from a fantasy and RPG perspective very iconic and by that do pull new customers into the game, therefore keeping the number of players high, therefore making it hard to impossible for devs, designers and in the end us to allocate resources for a proper rework. That´s why we get to play with hand down toys and not new ones.
As for all the ideas you have they are great and we will find them somewhere in the game for sure. Maybe in the next addon when we get a new vrykul warrior/paladin hybrid class or as part of another melee rework but just not for rets.
Also who would produce all those cool and most importantly working ideas if not us paladins

[Morally Grey Storm]

...so you think they'll have that priest rapevictim become an unwilling genetic material recipient once again?
Giff UD Paladins please... ;(

[Deleted]

...so you think they'll have that priest rapevictim become an unwilling genetic material recipient once again?
Giff UD Paladins please... ;(

yep that´s what I want to say. too many user like ret therefore the management doesn´t like us back. We are the harry potter of wow and are not allowed out of the cupboard.

Or put in business terms. We can lure customers with a shiny product that made of sheep china shit? Awesome! Once they have it we can hook them on something else and even make money of it! Business at it´s finest.

That also means don´t call for kalagan´s head too much. He might have a deep sitting hatred for ret but he wouldn´t be able to live out his sadistic streak if the system wouldn´t look the other way.

[Soikona]

Why? Judgement didn't use to give HP until Mop Set bonus and then in WoD and it still didn't hit hard even before the set bonus so that makes no damn sense. I just think Blizzard doesn't bother making Judgement hit hard regardless of the HP gain.




I mean, I think Divine Storm should still exist but perhaps make it doo much more then say Consecration(Up to Blizz to alter the damage difference)

I know people have preferences to abilities so I won't be mad about that.

Me though? I prefer Consecration.

Was it not Dragon Soul set bonus that made Judgement give holy power?

[Deleted]

Was it not Dragon Soul set bonus that made Judgement give holy power?

It was indeed, I remember using the 2P bonus and Gur'thalak (for it's tentacle slow) in Arena. Good old times

[Morally Grey Storm]

It was indeed, I remember using the 2P bonus and Gur'thalak (for it's tentacle slow) in Arena. Good old times

Good times? Like with ret-exclusive Gur'thalak proc nerf? Those were no good times at all.

[Deleted]

Good times? Like with ret-exclusive Gur'thalak proc nerf? Those were no good times at all.

They were! Master gave ret a sock, ret is free now.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well if you read the big post above its a build for game play. All abilities could be buffed in damage but the game play itself is what im trying to illustrate.

I read it but it was late and wasn't going to make a big post ><

[Ulthane]

I read it but it was late and wasn't going to make a big post ><

Its ok lol, just wanted to throw a brainstorm/rough draft of what that would look like. Otherwise as @CptKnusper put it you usually gotta stick with what ya get which is why my other concepts revolve around the current model. The ideas presented in both actually don't fully deviate at all. Just at the end of it all I feel the current 100 row sucks, equality is just bad and Consecration needs to be baseline.

Though when you mention Divine Storm vs Consecration if that were to be an actual thing and it was supposed to be a talent then Consecration needs to hit super hard. Like it needs to actually compete with ES and FV. I just feel it should be baseline and still hit hard.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its ok lol, just wanted to throw a brainstorm/rough draft of what that would look like. Otherwise as @CptKnusper put it you usually gotta stick with what ya get which is why my other concepts revolve around the current model. The ideas presented in both actually don't fully deviate at all. Just at the end of it all I feel the current 100 row sucks, equality is just bad and Consecration needs to be baseline.

Though when you mention Divine Storm vs Consecration if that were to be an actual thing and it was supposed to be a talent then Consecration needs to hit super hard. Like it needs to actually compete with ES and FV. I just feel it should be baseline and still hit hard.

Now that I'm more awake, I suggested that because I don't know how I feel(Balance wise) having Consecration and current Divine Storm at the same time. I mean yeah I'd love that, two aoe able things.

Forgot but do we still have Hammer of the Righteous on Alpha?

[Ulthane]

Now that I'm more awake, I suggested that because I don't know how I feel(Balance wise) having Consecration and current Divine Storm at the same time. I mean yeah I'd love that, two aoe able things.

Forgot but do we still have Hammer of the Righteous on Alpha?

We do not have hammer of the Righteous anymore.

And it would easily work out. Provide filler and help our aoe throughput.

[Deleted]

Managed to do a bit of a dungeon this evening before the shutdown. Not noticing major changes yet but it does look like tuning has started. I did notice that the debuff from Greater Judgment is spreading further now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JZbC5wE8x0

[Snegovik]

Level 60
-Virtue's Blade: When this ability critically strikes deal 3 times the normal amount of damage and generate 1 Holy Power.
-Blade of Wrath: Replaces Blade of Justice. Deal 200% weapon damage as holy over 8 seconds. Every time this deals damage generate a little amount of Holy Power. 8 Second cooldown.
-Divine Hammer: Deals damage instantly as holy to all near by enemies and every 2 seconds for 8 seconds after deal damage as holy instantly. Every time this ability deals damage generate moderate Holy Power. 8 second cooldown.

Level 90
-Divine Intervention: As is
-Judgment Charger: Reduces the cooldown of Divine Steed by 50% and while on your steed you become immune to movement impairing effects.
-Pursuit of Justice: Move 20% faster. For every Holy Power you have you reduce the duration of all crowd control effects by 15%.

I really like some of your ideas; however, the bolded options a bit too OP compared to other options in the row, asp the Pursuit of Justice the speed buff and reduced CC is insane buff for pvp. Also what are your thoughts for making Ret viable in RBGs? Since most of your abilities are ST.

Also off topic, i was reading up on PvP forums, and there was a post where a person said that apparently he dueled every class as Ret and won all the duels (lets for argument sake assume this is true) due to Ret's good sustain self healing. My questions to ppl with Alpha, does Ret actually have good healing capabilties in PvP? Since what i can tell from talents, its all castable heals (not counting WoG) which can be easily interrupted/kicked, so how then Ret can maintain good healing, while chasing some1 if its all cast-base? Thx in advance.

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yep that´s what I want to say. too many user like ret therefore the management doesn´t like us back. We are the harry potter of wow and are not allowed out of the cupboard.

Or put in business terms. We can lure customers with a shiny product that made of sheep china shit? Awesome! Once they have it we can hook them on something else and even make money of it! Business at it´s finest.

That also means don´t call for kalagan´s head too much. He might have a deep sitting hatred for ret but he wouldn´t be able to live out his sadistic streak if the system wouldn´t look the other way.

Yep thats how i actually see it, the ONLY way for Blizzard to properly balance Ret spec, is when almost no-one will play it, it will become so dead that blizzard will have no choice but to make it decent on par with other dps-classes.

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It was indeed, I remember using the 2P bonus and Gur'thalak (for it's tentacle slow) in Arena. Good old times

Yep i remember that too lol, i actually lead my own Pugs to Heroic Dragon Soul for 2p set bonus + Heroic PVE trinkets (never got past Heroic Spine with my pugs...so never got that OP heroic sword)

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Good times? Like with ret-exclusive Gur'thalak proc nerf? Those were no good times at all.

Come on Storm, don;t tell me you do not miss 80% hp heal on our SH if target below 30% hp, the 2x Ret was actually viable in 2s, and the nub-rush of 3x DPS: 2x Ret/Frost DK or Ret/Hunter/Rog, even though it was a nub fest, i enjoyed that s11

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I never got Gur'thalak.



EVER


I was maining a warrior at the time but even then I never got Gur'thalak. RNG loot and other specs got it even though it was their OS spec(LFR mind you so yeah)

[Snegovik]

I never got Gur'thalak.



EVER


I was maining a warrior at the time but even then I never got Gur'thalak. RNG loot and other specs got it even though it was their OS spec(LFR mind you so yeah)

I got the Regular Gurth, but i never used it after i got my elite PvP-sword, since it was better for burst (and it looked sexier)