who failed wow? the players vs blizzard management

[Cæli]

WoW hasn't failed. It got old.

Name me a 10 year old game that has more players now than it has ever had? The only possibility is Counter Strike, and that's if you even consider that a fair comparison as CS, CS:Source, CS:GO are technically three separate games.

Did the devs make mistakes? Absolutely.
Did the players make mistakes? Absolutely.

Happens in every game.

Well ... Super Mario World ? Zelda Ocarina of Time ? Pokemon ? Check speedrunning communities, if a game is good, it is always played. Also, chess, soccer, ...

[Manabomb]

WoW hasn't failed. It got old.

Name me a 10 year old game that has more players now than it has ever had? The only possibility is Counter Strike, and that's if you even consider that a fair comparison as CS, CS:Source, CS:GO are technically three separate games.

Did the devs make mistakes? Absolutely.
Did the players make mistakes? Absolutely.

Happens in every game.

Considering they remake the game every 2 years with expansions, the whole "10 year old" game really doesn't hold credence at all.

It'd be like saying Halo 2 is 10 years old, but has more players now than it did because of Halo 5.

[Teebone]

Rough numbers, but EVE has lost 30%, WoW has lost 50% (at last known numbers). While less severe you've only reinforced my point, old games peak.

A point I too was exemplifying. You simply asked for another game other than CS:GO. I provided it ^_^

[Deleted]

Well ... Super Mario World ? Zelda Ocarina of Time ? Pokemon ? Check speedrunning communities, if a game is good, it is always played. Also, chess, soccer, ...

Once again I didn't ask for old games, retro games like Pacman would be an instant example. But do you believe any of those games have more players now than they ever had before? You believe Zelda is currently at it's peak user base? This entire thread is about WoW being a failure due to population decline, I am saying it's normal.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Urgh the "10 year old game" argument BS. Pretty sure WoD was released 2 years ago and Legion will launch this year.

[wych]

Once again I didn't ask for old games, retro games like Pacman would be an instant example. But do you believe any of those games have more players now than they ever had before? You believe Zelda is currently at it's peak user base? This entire thread is about WoW being a failure due to population decline, I am saying it's normal.

They're totally false equivalences

[Teebone]

Considering they remake the game every 2 years with expansions, the whole "10 year old" game really doesn't hold credence at all.

It'd be like saying Halo 2 is 10 years old, but has more players now than it did because of Halo 5.

I had a character that had items from the original Naxx invasion before BC. I had a skull that would do a self dot (anti-CC for PvP) a recipe for a potion that if memory serves correctly STILL removes all curses, poisons and disease, the first ever shaman raid armor to ever drop etc etc.

My point is the game may have changed but the players and their characters did not. Same game. 12 years running.

[Thelxi]

This is really not a case of egg or chicken. A lot of blatant stupidity in this thread.

[tankbug]

Hard to say. Blizzard can't keep up with the player's ever increasing demand for new content, so who's to blame?
I think the community has to realize that Blizzard is just a bunch of humans, and not demigods that can conjure up content that can please everyone.
It's hard to fight old age, and all that the community has come up with as solutions is to start over from vanilla, which is stupid.

[Alvito]

WoW hasn't failed. It got old.

Name me a 10 year old game that has more players now than it has ever had? The only possibility is Counter Strike, and that's if you even consider that a fair comparison as CS, CS:Source, CS:GO are technically three separate games.

Did the devs make mistakes? Absolutely.
Did the players make mistakes? Absolutely.

Happens in every game.

Age or not anything causing a decline is some sort of failure. Has WoW out performed any game like it, yes by miles. That still doesn't mean each expansion gets a pass based on the age of the core game.

[Darkeon]

WoW hasn't failed. It got old.

Name me a 10 year old game that has more players now than it has ever had? The only possibility is Counter Strike, and that's if you even consider that a fair comparison as CS, CS:Source, CS:GO are technically three separate games.

Did the devs make mistakes? Absolutely.
Did the players make mistakes? Absolutely.

Happens in every game.

I actually believe that the "It's old" explanation is over used. Sure, it's a contributor to the issue, but I do feel it's used way more often than it's true.

WoD's launch showed that, a 10-year old game, the players were willing to come back to WoW and give it a chance.

And then came "Cyclical" excuse. Sure, some people will quickly get bored of it and leave, bound to happen when we push the numbers that high again - however I do not believe for a second that the quality of the expansion had less to do with the max-exodus than the "Cyclical" Excuse did.

[Cæli]

Once again I didn't ask for old games, retro games like Pacman would be an instant example. But do you believe any of those games have more players now than they ever had before? You believe Zelda is currently at it's peak user base? This entire thread is about WoW being a failure due to population decline, I am saying it's normal.

I really don't agree. Outstanding games are not just games, it's part of our culture. Those kinds of games are becoming more and more valuable over time. A very good game has the potential to last forever. Not saying it's an easy feat to pull.

[Manabomb]

I had a character that had items from the original Naxx invasion before BC. I had a skull that would do a self dot (anti-CC for PvP) a recipe for a potion that if memory serves correctly STILL removes all curses, poisons and disease, the first ever shaman raid armor to ever drop etc etc.

My point is the game may have changed but the players and their characters did not. Same game. 12 years running.

It is not at all the same game functionally, systematically or otherwise. You cannot say that Vanilla World of Warcraft and Warlords of Draenor are the same game. That is completely baseless.

And my Halo analogy fits even better with this train of logic, considering Halo has had the same base formula and design since it's inception, just like Warcraft and is still insanely popular and release expansions (as new titles) on groundwork they made years ago.

So no. Just because you have a couple of pixels that are 10 years old does not mean that the game functions anywhere CLOSE to the same it did 10 years ago.

Nor does it mean a brand just gets "old". There are brands that are over a hundred years old still using the name they were in 1916. Those brands do not at all function anywhere close to how they functioned a hundred years ago. And many are as popular or if not more popular. It isn't a matter of time at all. It's a matter of keeping Warcraft timeless, which is difficult when neither the developers nor the writers put passion in their work.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

Failed isn't the word I'd use, more like stumbled from some questionable decisions from Blizzard. I also don't think it's fair to compare it to something like Super Mario World or other older titles since those games are static and WoW changes.

[Deleted]

I'll stay in this thread for a little while, but I feel people are glossing over a major part of my initial reply.

Did the devs make mistakes? Absolutely.
Did the players make mistakes? Absolutely.

I don't think it's possible for any game to keep coming up with new and innovate ideas that only increase sub/user numbers. Failure and population decline is normal.

[Deleted]

Players always wanting an easy ride ruined it. Look at early Cataclysm as a prime example. Those dungeons were near perfect in skill requirements a few were a bit over the top. But the cry babies wanted faceroll.

[Deleted]

So no. Just because you have a couple of pixels that are 10 years old does not mean that the game functions anywhere CLOSE to the same it did 10 years ago.

I don't know Halo so I can't compare, WoW I'd imagine has a lot more intricacies, because, from a high level yes it does. You do quests, kill big monsters as a group(raid), you PvP, you main form of advance is levels/gear.

[Teebone]

It is not at all the same game functionally, systematically or otherwise. You cannot say that Vanilla World of Warcraft and Warlords of Draenor are the same game. That is completely baseless.

And my Halo analogy fits even better with this train of logic, considering Halo has had the same base formula and design since it's inception, just like Warcraft and is still insanely popular and release expansions (as new titles) on groundwork they made years ago.

So no. Just because you have a couple of pixels that are 10 years old does not mean that the game functions anywhere CLOSE to the same it did 10 years ago.

Trinity class system: Tank, Heal, DPS. Choose between two factions. Multiple races, classes dedicated between certain races. Load-free zone changes, dedicated servers for each continent. Aggro leashing. Flight paths. Hearthstones. Raid endgame. Mail system.

These are all fundamentals of WoW, ones that HAVE NOT changed dramatically since 2004 (maybe hearthstones, but do we really want to count QoL?). Same. Game.

- - - Updated - - -

Players always wanting an easy ride ruined it. Look at early Cataclysm as a prime example. Those dungeons were near perfect in skill requirements a few were a bit over the top. But the cry babies wanted faceroll.

If any players ruined it, its people like you who always jump on those not at 'their level'.

[Goondicker]

Definitely the design team.

The community has always had good and bad eggs. Now, you have the option to play the game like a single-player, so there's no need for the "tight-knit" community.

[purebalance]

WoW hasn't failed. It got old.

Name me a 10 year old game that has more players now than it has ever had? The only possibility is Counter Strike, and that's if you even consider that a fair comparison as CS, CS:Source, CS:GO are technically three separate games.

Did the devs make mistakes? Absolutely.
Did the players make mistakes? Absolutely.

Happens in every game.

So you consider each of those different games but then not WoW when in reality WoW is exactly like the CoD and the Maddens in terms of expansions=new versions.

On topic: Devs are to blame for catering to bad players who were apart of the gimme gimme now now generation and players are to blame for being those people. There's a huge difference between not having the "Collect 50 fangs... oh by the way they have like a 10% drop rate" to some of the changes they've made in more recent history.