Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Pwellzor]

Calling me an arcmhair engineer, accountant or marketing director doesn't win you any prizes for superious logic. It just goes to show you can't argue against logic properly. Theories about how something can be done does not equate to nonsense just because you wish it so. Especially when proper logic has been applied to the possible demographic and what kind of payment models could be effective (anything that isn't a 15 dollar-scam, basically).

But you are cute, for trying to keep up.

Unequivocal statements about how a game can definitely make a profit is nonsense from a user with no possible insight on the work, costs, advertising involved are nonsense. You can disagree, but I would wonder why.

[Kyanion]

If it could be implemented and profitable, don't you think Blizzard would have done it? Or are they not doing it, just to piss people off?

Are you saying you have knowledge in business that Blizzard doesn't?

Yes that is what they are implying. The demand is there, you can't stop the REVOLUTION. or some shit like that.

[Triks]

Hey I think 10/25 man parity was one of the good things about Cata/MoP. Forced 20 man mythics isn't that amazing imo.

The parity was the best thing they have done raid-wise since they introduced Ulduar HM. Regarding Mythic, I don't think it being a fixed size was the problem but more their unwillingness to allow cross-realm recruitment and well, the fact that raiding as a whole has been getting progressively harder since Cata with WoD being brutal.

[Deleted]

If it could be implemented and profitable, don't you think Blizzard would have done it? Or are they not doing it, just to piss people off?

Are you saying you have knowledge in business that Blizzard doesn't?

It couldn't possibly not be profitable. All they have to do is sell the ip for each xpac to a private server and take a cut. There is no way they can not make money doing this, they wouldn't be spending any money or resources.

[Perkunas]

Hey I think 10/25 man parity was one of the good things about Cata/MoP. Forced 20 man mythics isn't that amazing imo.

It forced Blizzard to homogenize classes further, spend too much time balancing between sizes, and split the raid community. This was a terrible idea. Wrath's model was better and I don't even like Wrath's model. I prefer BC's raid model. Mythic has actually been a good idea and has fixed a lot of the problems I've mentioned.

[Akka]

Your boy burt didn't catch the memo.

Even if he didn't, his own counter-argument is also valid : the typical "players grew up and got responsability" takes the weird (and coincidentally self-serving) basis that somehow there is only one population who ever played on WoW and it eroded over time. The question being why would new people growing up during WoW lifetime wouldn't pick it up like their elders ?

[Pwellzor]

If it could be implemented and profitable, don't you think Blizzard would have done it? Or are they not doing it, just to piss people off?

Are you saying you have knowledge in business that Blizzard doesn't?

Apparently blizzard's pride is holding it back from making millions and millions of dollars. While at the same time they are attacked on the daily about how they'd sell a potato as a legendary for profit.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yeah 'cuz Vanilla, Diablo 2 and Starcraft sucked. If you want to point fingers at knee-jerk reactions than point them at Cleavecrawler.

When people assign efforts of whole team to a single person who was kicked out/left the team later it makes me giggle. I've been in a whole bunch of global projects, worked in teams that consist off people from all around the globe, and i can easily say that if you take a one person out the whole team - he is worthless, but as part of a team - he can be really helpful. This works here too, especially with quotes about this dude, who you assign all glory and success from projects that were created by work of huge amount of people, that he is not that good of a team player i don't think that his opinion is somehow more relevant to opinions of any random doods on the internet.

And you want to know why? Because he have no access to actual information that certain blizzard employees have.

[sunxsera]

They should really just hire the Nostalrius team ... both sides win.

[Kyanion]

The parity was the best thing they have done raid-wise since they introduce Ulduar HM. Regarding Mythic, I don't think it being a fixed size was the problem but more their unwillingness to allow cross-realm recruitment and well, the fact that raiding as a whole has been getting progressively harder since Cata with WoD being brutal.

Well they are sticking with 20 man mythic next expansion so if nothing else they are finally sticking to their guns as far as raid sizes go. Not that I like it though. I really miss 10 man raiding, now that was some close-knit get to know the people you are playing with good times for me. Got to meet almost all of my guild at Blizzcon in 2014 and we had a blast. Now 20 man mythic has shoved that fun/closekint feeling and it got replaced with too many voices. Also the more people you add the more chances you have of a random douchebag/asshole.

[Pwellzor]

Even if he didn't, his own counter-argument is also valid : the typical "players grew up and got responsability" takes the weird (and coincidentally self-serving) basis that somehow there is only one population who ever played on WoW and it eroded over time. The question being why would new people growing up during WoW lifetime wouldn't pick it up like their elders ?

Was more to address the pseudo intellectual "haha my side of the argument is so logically and factually superior" post you made earlier. Both sides of this trainwreck of a thread is full of misinformation. Propainn and I addressed this 500 pages ago.

[peterpan007]

They should really just hire the Nostalrius team ... both sides win.

Logic has no place here! Shooo!!

[Kyanion]

It forced Blizzard to homogenize classes further, spend too much time balancing between sizes, and split the raid community. This was a terrible idea. Wrath's model was better and I don't even like Wrath's model. I prefer BC's raid model. Mythic has actually been a good idea and has fixed a lot of the problems I've mentioned.

I mean we can agree to disagree. I really liked TBC's raiding as it was some of my best times, but I wouldn't trade 10 man SoO for anything. I don't think I'd have hated mythic as much if it was 15 people. 20 was just a few too many for me and killed my enjoyment of it.

[Atelniar]

If it could be implemented and profitable, don't you think Blizzard would have done it? Or are they not doing it, just to piss people off?

Are you saying you have knowledge in business that Blizzard doesn't?

This is piss-poor logic. Is Blizzard the almighty profit-god that will make any and all proftable choices available to them? If so, why didn't they manage to make a relatively large PvP scene become e-sport competetive in time before MOBA's hit the scene? If so, why didn't they manage to make garrisons work as proper player housing as people wanted to? If so, why did they utterly destroy gathering professions and many crafting professions the last five years? Why, why, why? Because they aren't that competent. They aren't almighty. And you certainly CAN NOT under ANY circumstance use that as evidence that legacy servers will not be profitable. Because Blizzard has proven on multiple accounts that they are not perfect, which undermines your entire assumption that they would make the right decision in this case.

Care to continue discussing that fact? Or do you think losing half your subscribers in less than two years shows all-knowing competence?

[Kyanion]

They should really just hire the Nostalrius team ... both sides win.

I think that is about as far as you can get from winning as possible.

[Triks]

They should really just hire the Nostalrius team ... both sides win.

Jeez that's what I have been saying for the past 3 hours. It's like a fucking carnival ride.

Well they are sticking with 20 man mythic next expansion so if nothing else they are finally sticking to their guns as far as raid sizes go. Not that I like it though. I really miss 10 man raiding, now that was some close-knit get to know the people you are playing with good times for me. Got to meet almost all of my guild at Blizzcon in 2014 and we had a blast. Now 20 man mythic has shoved that fun/closekint feeling and it got replaced with too many voices. Also the more people you add the more chances you have of a random douchebag/asshole.

I preferred 25-man raiding because the more people you had, the more diverse personalities and interests there were but I get what you are saying. Meeting all of your guild in Blizzcon is something that's really cool, though.

[Kyanion]

Logic has no place here! Shooo!!

Yeah cause if it is true they went through with the lawsuit on Nost's team + their server hosts. I don't think they'd ever hire them. So yeahhh..

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This is piss-poor logic. Is Blizzard the almighty profit-god that will make any and all proftable choices available to them? If so, why didn't they manage to make a relatively large PvP scene become e-sport competetive in time before MOBA's hit the scene? If so, why didn't they manage to make garrisons work as proper player housing as people wanted to? If so, why did they utterly destroy gathering professions and many crafting professions the last five years? Why, why, why? Because they aren't that competent. They aren't almighty. And you certainly CAN NOT under ANY circumstance use that as evidence that legacy servers will not be profitable. Because Blizzard has proven on multiple accounts that they are not perfect, which undermines your entire assumption that they would make the right decision in this case.

Care to continue discussing that fact? Or do you think losing half your subscribers in less than two years shows all-knowing competence?

Ok so can you agree that there is a chance classic realms blow up in their fucking faces? And it might not be worth taking that risk? Sure it could work out great and it could also be an epic failure that costs them money.

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I preferred 25-man raiding because the more people you had, the more diverse personalities and interests there were but I get what you are saying. Meeting all of your guild in Blizzcon is something that's really cool, though.

Yeah sadly I lost some of those friends because they refused to do 20 man mythic and I don't blame them. We really liked 10 and heroic 10~flexi just wasn't enough of a challenge.

[Perkunas]

I mean we can agree to disagree. I really liked TBC's raiding as it was some of my best times, but I wouldn't trade 10 man SoO for anything. I don't think I'd have hated mythic as much if it was 15 people. 20 was just a few too many for me and killed my enjoyment of it.

20 is too small in my opinion. I think 25 was the perfect size, but Blizzard decided 20 and I'm content with that. Whether you like the size or not you have to admit that the homogenization required for 10 man competitive raiding gutted many of the unique aspects of classes. I miss niche roles as I believe they make the game more fun. Utility DPS was a role that was lost and BC Elemental Shaman was one of my favorite classes. Not because my damage was amazing(it was shitty) but because the utility I brought in the form of buffs to my group compensated and then some.

[Atelniar]

Unequivocal statements about how a game can definitely make a profit is nonsense from a user with no possible insight on the work, costs, advertising involved are nonsense. You can disagree, but I would wonder why.

My studies consists mostly of C#, Java, HTML, CSS, PhP, JavaScript, C, SQL, etc. I use tools like VisualStudio on a daily basis. I have enough insight to know a bullshit excuse about "losing old code" from what actual developers do in their line of work. How about you? Oh, and I have been a part of the MMORPG-scene for well over a decade.

[Triks]

Yeah cause if it is true they went through with the lawsuit on Nost's team + their server hosts. I don't think they'd ever hire them. So yeahhh..

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Ok so can you agree that there is a chance classic realms blow up in their fucking faces? And it might not be worth taking that risk? Sure it could work out great and it could also be an epic failure that costs them money.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah sadly I lost some of those friends because they refused to do 20 man mythic and I don't blame them. We really liked 10 and heroic 10~flexi just wasn't enough of a challenge.

I have really horrible memories from flex raiding. The numbers were poorly balanced and basically made you to get as many people as possible in order to cheese the boss. At 10-man it's just annoyingly hard.