3 tiers in 3 years

[Sury]

More details per this r/wow post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ll_drop_i_put/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

These numbers look even worse.

Your links do not dispute my post. In fact the second one agree with it.

The game has evolved and the graphs make it evident but the title of this thread and OP is cheery picking the facts to fit an agenda. I was simply bringing a little more context to the thread.

[hulkgor]

They look worse because they try to make them look worse. Can someone list the 9 raids of vanilla for example?

UBRS
MC
Onyxia
BWL
ZG
AQ20
AQ40
Naxxramas

Strat\Scholo might have been regarded earlier on (or played as raids due to lack of player limit inside), but weren't raids. World Bosses like Kazzak or Azuregos also aren't.

Which one did i miss?

[Alvito]

Cata actually is pretty OK. It just came right after WotLK, so the comparison couldn't have been fair.

It also paid the price for 13 months of ICC. The Wrath burnout rolled into Cata and people rapidly gave up as a result. SC2 also launched right before Cata. So they gimped themselves with one of their own games.

[Mullet Man]

They look worse because they try to make them look worse. Can someone list the 9 raids of vanilla for example?

You are correct.
There are 8, and it could be debated that UBRS was not a real raid.

UBRS
MC
Ony
BWL
ZG
AQ20
AQ40
Naxx

[Lamora]

UBRS
MC
Onyxia
BWL
ZG
AQ20
AQ40
Naxxramas

Strat\Scholo might have been regarded earlier on (or played as raids due to lack of player limit inside), but weren't raids. World Bosses like Kazzak or Azuregos also aren't.

Which one did i miss?

UBRS is in the same category as Strat/Scholo, it was just a dungeon that allowed more players. Never heard of it referred to as a raid.

[Sury]

I find it interesting one of the graphs chooses to include Sinestra but excludes Drov, Rukhmar, Tarlnar, and Kazzak

[Donair]

Your links do not dispute my post. In fact the second one agree with it.

The game has evolved and the graphs make it evident but the title of this thread and OP is cheery picking the facts to fit an agenda. I was simply bringing a little more context to the thread.

Into what? A shittier version of its former self with dramatically less content and bang for your buck? Yeah man. I agree. Unfortunately.

[Spiral Mage]

Oh Blizzard, how harshly have you fallen...

But it's okay, guise! We might have bare minimum, but at least Blizzard is racking in those moneys as hard as they ever did!

With how many subs they've lost? Hah, not likely.

And someone saying "raiding has to die for WoW to live!" -- OK, just because you take it as a personal challenge to be too lazy to bother to take the 20 minutes or so, it'd take to know enough to go do a raid, doesn't mean the rest of us want to be bad like you.

If Raiding died, that'd be the end of WoW, because that's what the overwhelmingly majority of players play WoW for.

[Sierra85]

UBRS is in the same category as Strat/Scholo, it was just a dungeon that allowed more players. Never heard of it referred to as a raid.

well when you made a group for ubrs 10 or 20, u had to turn the party group into a raid group. probably the source of your confusion.

[Cosmophile]

It's incredibly important to keep in mind that these longer tier times wouldn't be nearly as much as an issue if there was other relevent content in the game. If Blizz took out the shortcuts to gearing up (LFR for gear), which effectively make anything that isn't the latest content out irrelevant (with the exception of getting your "legendary" quest done), then the game would be much more enjoyable.

BC and Wrath wouldn't have been as great if they allowed people to gear up super quickly and avoid legitimate progression through the tiers. Wrath had a good balance, imo. But I digress.

[Baine]

This thread is pointless. Either you
1-Unsubscribe and write to Blizz to offer your opinion on the topic
2-Stay subscribed and move along.

Those 2 options are not really new. It is why it is a pointless thread.

[Mullet Man]

It's incredibly important to keep in mind that these longer tier times wouldn't be nearly as much as an issue if there was other relevent content in the game. If Blizz took out the shortcuts to gearing up (LFR for gear), which effectively make anything that isn't the latest content out irrelevant (with the exception of getting your "legendary" quest done), then the game would be much more enjoyable.

BC and Wrath wouldn't have been as great if they allowed people to gear up super quickly and avoid legitimate progression through the tiers. Wrath had a good balance, imo. But I digress.

I agree completely.
The reality is gating people behind gear checks slows down the consumption of content, and is a "good thing".

Having people skip raid tiers is not good for the game overall.
Does it suck for alt levelling? Sure. But is needed for the overall health of the game.

[threads]

it's all ok cause we're getting these expansions out at record pace

[NFA]

I never expected to see Blizzard apologists so vehemently protest to what the graphs very obviously point towards.

"The game has evolved" - Evolved to have less content across the board? That's regressive, not evolutionary.

[Denkou]

cataclysmic greed occurred after wotlk

I see what you did there...

[Sury]

As a rep junky I find the reputation graph to be an odd choice to include considering how much rep has changed over the years. Most of the Vanilla reps served next to no purpose.

22 Vanilla
17 BC
14 WotLK
7 Cata
14 Mist
12 Warlords

The 12-17 seems well within a tolerable variance considering most of the Vanilla reps had little reward and Cata represents the too few side of the spectrum. I do not think it demonstrates anything of any real importance.

[NFA]

Most of the Vanilla reps served next to no purpose.

Care to give some examples as to why?

[Deficineiron]

This thread is pointless. Either you
1-Unsubscribe and write to Blizz to offer your opinion on the topic
2-Stay subscribed and move along.

Those 2 options are not really new. It is why it is a pointless thread.

note to OP - when you see this as a response, you know that would-be detractors aren't quite sure how to argue with that graph.

- - - Updated - - -

it's all ok cause we're getting these expansions out at record pace

biggest team ever!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

I agree completely.
The reality is gating people behind gear checks slows down the consumption of content, and is a "good thing".

Having people skip raid tiers is not good for the game overall.
Does it suck for alt levelling? Sure. But is needed for the overall health of the game.

I have concluded, in part based on blizzard themselves posting publicly participation/completion metrics on new raids, that blizzard is for whatever reason strongly motivated to get as many people into the NEWEST raid as possible, to such a degree that they willingly render last year's raid useless instantly to accomplish that.

[The7]

There's nothing left to do but take our own lives.

Well said.
Meanwhile i'm playing HotS, Heartsthone, Diablo, Starcraft and Overwatch, just to name the Blizzard's ones.

[Sury]

Into what? A shittier version of its former self with dramatically less content and bang for your buck? Yeah man. I agree. Unfortunately.

Which is your opinion. Claiming the game has dramatically less content and band for your buck is nothing more than your own dissatisfaction with what the game currently has to offer you personally. I have more to do now then I ever did in Vanilla. I raided 40 mans and pvp'd. I know what the game had to offer and in my opinion it was less than what the game offers me now. As a Diablo III player, Legion is going to have more to offer me than this game has every had to offer it date.