Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Ielenia]

Yes, you have. This discussion ends with this quote, as you fail to comply with established fact.

It's not a fact, not only because you have failed to prove your case that did, but also because I never did. Again, just because you can't comprehend what others post or twist in your head what they write to suit your narratives doesn't mean the fault is on me. It's all on you.

You start out by assuming Blizzard has approached the topic and done market research, which there is no evidence of beyond quotes from blue posters and borderline insulting QA's which are recorded.

In other words: evidence shown, evidence ignored.

Then, you proceed to imply that Blizzard would act on it if it was profitable

Why wouldn't they? Ego? That excuse has been put to death when Blizzard went back on their decision to not add flying at all to Draenor.

The latter is also an assumption, as Blizzard can not be expected to act on every possibly profitable endeavour that exist.

Yet we're not talking about 'any' endeavor. People are asking for something, as they say, is well within the realm of 'easy' and possible.

Their research may be faulty and imply something is not profitable when it can be. In theory.

It doesn't change the fact that an average schmuck knows more than Blizzard about the market. He may make a lucky guess, bu know more? Nope. And that's the whole point.

As such, you HAVE claimed that Blizzard knows this for a fact based on nothing more than your biased opinion of how competent Blizzard is.

The only thing I claimed is that Blizzard knows more than you about the market. Which is the entire basis on why I tend to trust them over the word of criminals like the Nostalrius gang.

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

Good quote. Ok, I'll give you one point for that.

P.S: when I say "Go ahead, do so." That means I don't argue against it.

No, it doesn't. It means mockery (therefore disputing the assertion) and taunting.

[Atelniar]

No, it doesn't. It means mockery (therefore disputing the assertion) and taunting.

Again, with the assumptions. I literally meant it when I wrote that (And I know that for a fact, I wrote it). I don't compare myself to a company which consist of multiple people. You do. I was not taunting at all.

To take that as mockery and "disputing the assertion" is a major stretch of logic, at best. If not down-right dishonest.

Also, PR excuses to appease a user base does not equal evidence of market research. I don't know how you came to such a conclusion.

With that, our discussion ends.

[Deleted]

In other words: evidence shown, evidence ignored.

What evidence?

The only thing I claimed is that Blizzard knows more than you about the market. Which is the entire basis on why I tend to trust them over the word of criminals like the Nostalrius gang.

The fact that you keep using words like "criminals" says enough about you. It must hurt you greatly that a very small group of people can do what Blizzard can't: bring fun to players.

[Unholyground]

Unfortunately they had a ddos attack plus 18k people trying to login at the same time! they postponed the launch for 1-2 days now



There was a nice thread lately, in wow reddit about legacy servers and how blizzard could make legion have a vanilla feeling...it was a good read.. almost 90%+ of people said that Blizz should remove cross-realm lfg, crz and merge servers if needed (more merges) while at the same time have only 1 raid difficulty. Also to make the content outside raiding challenging again, etc.



This is no weird thing though... I think Daybreak have bought project 1999 for everquest, and actually made it official..so it happened before.

They need to connect all servers and create cross server guilds, if they want community they need to adapt their created technologies along with community instead of throwing new things out before they think about the repercussions. It could work well, allow anyone from any server to be in your guild, if you want you can hop between the guild masters server and your origin server. This would allow guilds to have more reach and appeal.

[A dot Ham]

I for one. Another friend of mine as well. So yeah, I don't need data. Its called common sense. If you need to edit a wow config file you risk damaging your game.

WoW so we have 3 now.

You still have no numbers.

Too many people are playing this guessing game and passing it off as statistical evidence. "You and your friend" and "I bet even more people are interested" and "my dad can beat up your dad".

Real business decisions are not made on such shaky information. If it is unverifiable it is next to worthless. Tell me if its common sense how many people chose NOT to participate in Nost because it wasn't officially sanctioned? Go on... give me a specific number. I certainly hope you have the evidence to back up that number as well... No? Then you don't have relevant data. Case closed.

Field of Dreams - "If you build it, they will come."

[Tharkkun]

All of this is assuming blizzard can not use the original server code from back then, which I'm sure they still have in some form, but might hard to get running. Say they release the following statement.



They would basically say, "you can have your legacy servers, but they might suck until we feel like fixing them". No need for them to spend loads of money on support or development, and the private server crowd would LOVE them, just as the dark souls crowd loves from when they said: "we'll make a pc version, but it will probably suck, since we didn't plan to make it originally, and we're not pc developers"

Blizzard would never do that though. They have too much pride to release something half ass. They would rather delay something to get it right then release it in a piss poor state. If it was any other company they would've released it years ago in a broken ass state just to appease people.

[melodramocracy]

They have too much pride to release something half ass.

You missed out on Warlords, I take it.

[jvbastel]

Blizzard would never do that though. They have too much pride to release something half ass. They would rather delay something to get it right then release it in a piss poor state. If it was any other company they would've released it years ago in a broken ass state just to appease people.

That could be the case, yes. It would be a great way to test the waters, though.

[Ielenia]

Again, with the assumptions. I literally meant it when I wrote that (And I know that for a fact, I wrote it).

And you have the galls to berate me about poor wording, then?

- - - Updated - - -

What evidence?

Blizzard's answers every time they're asked about vanilla realms.

The fact that you keep using words like "criminals" says enough about you.

It's not my fault if you choose to ignore certain parts of reality just because they're giving you what you want.

It must hurt you greatly that a very small group of people can do what Blizzard can't: bring fun to players.

Blizzard still has millions subscribers, on WoW alone, not to mention the playerbase of Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Hearthstone and now Overwatch, so I'd say that Blizzard can and is bringing fun to players. Many, many more than Nostalrius did. And what's worse: they're doing that with their own products, with their own creations. They're not stealing someone else's product.

[Deleted]

In the glorious capitalist world we live in its rather simple: People demand a certain product, someone will deliver it.

Lets say people really want some characters rewritten in GoT, someone will write fanfiction to please these people. If he gets popular enough maybe even a book. Why should G.R.R.Martin have the write to stop him? Different products attract different people, maybe some even look into both.

Same with private servers, Blizzard evolved WoW, some people like old version better. Blizzard doesn't supply, so they go where ever they can.
It's the same with the war on drugs, you cannot win it... but you can be the one to provide the best supply and drown our competition.
But Blizzard ain't willing to provide so of course private servers spring up everywhere, there is a lot to be gained. Even the free servers get a certain reward: Respect and Admiration, it cannot buy you anything but it's good for the selfsteem.

[zmp]

Logic

Please dont add logic to this thread, you are only allowed to post unreal comparisons, Blizz-facts (based on own opinions) and exaggerate like crazy.

[Deleted]

You missed out on Warlords, I take it.

WoD in terms of raiding (which is the only reason i ever played this game for) was good, although i dont like how 'good' addons are getting. Many bosses would be alot harder if they hadn't had specific addons to aid the fight. But still the raid content was on par with mop imo which was pretty good.

passionate fans

how many new words are we going to use for "criminals" in this thread? stop talking like they did a good thing. they did something illegal they got shut down, they can be happy that they arent getting dragged to court.

[Deleted]

Please dont add logic to this thread, you are only allowed to post unreal comparisons, Blizz-facts (based on own opinions) and exaggerate like crazy.

Oh shit, I'm sorry... I forgot that I am in the internet and not somewhere with people who care Tanks for the reminder

[Deleted]

In the glorious capitalist world we live in its rather simple: People demand a certain product, someone will deliver it.

Lets say people really want some characters rewritten in GoT, someone will write fanfiction to please these people. If he gets popular enough maybe even a book. Why should G.R.R.Martin have the write to stop him? Different products attract different people, maybe some even look into both.

Same with private servers, Blizzard evolved WoW, some people like old version better. Blizzard doesn't supply, so they go where ever they can.
It's the same with the war on drugs, you cannot win it... but you can be the one to provide the best supply and drown our competition.
But Blizzard ain't willing to provide so of course private servers spring up everywhere, there is a lot to be gained. Even the free servers get a certain reward: Respect and Admiration, it cannot buy you anything but it's good for the selfsteem.

Vert well said

[A dot Ham]

A lot of us feel that ZG, MC, BWL, AQ, and Naxx have more character than the current raids. The current raid encounters aren't bad, don't get me wrong - they're probably the only really successful thing about WoD. But the old raids are iconic at this point, while new raids can't help but just feel generic not matter how well the encounters are designed. How long will people remember the Kargath Bladefist fight, or Twin Ogron? Those fights aren't iconic in any way, and they have no lasting power. People have fondly/grudgingly remembered the Baron Geddon fight for years, even though the mechanics are much simpler than anything nowadays, and that's not even taking into account the more complex and memorable fights of the time like Razorgore.

One of the other contributing factors to this is the existence of multiple difficulties makes bosses seem less interesting, because they do different things at different levels. They suffer from a dilution of their identity, because you can't simply say "remember the Jek'lik fight in ZG, I always got wrecked by those damn bats" and have someone immediately know what you're talking about. Instead you have to say "remember Kormok in HFC, I always died to those pools man they were crazy", to which someone might say "I don't remember any pools on the ground", and you have to say "oh, you didn't do him on mythic I guess." Suddenly the boss isn't something you can bond over, or even really talk about, because you essentially beat two completely different encounters.

One of the major things is that the old raid model presented a real sense of progression from one raid to the next, which appeals to many of us. Nowadays you don't actually have to do anything but the last raid, because you can use the catchup mechanics to get into right away. Bored with BRF? You don't even need to have stepped foot into it to have killed Mythic Archimonde, and that is a game design that many of us dislike intensely.

Anyways, that's my two cents. Interested to hear your thoughts.

Bold - Said no one to me ever. Now I have platform... don't choke, don't choke.

I am not sure frustrating mechanics are a good thing to forge lasting relationships on. Its one thing when you are learning a fight, its another if you know what you are doing, outgear the content and it still wrecks your ass.

There are plenty of games out there that have certain fights that seem impossible, and if you learn the strategy, you feel really dumb for how easy it is.

You mentioned a few bosses from MC, would really say the rest are all that iconic? BWL-Razoregore, Vael, Nef. ZG-Hakkar, original bloodlord? AQ20 - Nothing. AQ40 - prophet, twin emps, cthun I didn't even step foot into Naxx until 80 so.

My point is I think if you are being honest with yourself each raid has certain bosses you struggle on more than others. Some have much more unique mechanics than others. Is Twin Ogron anything like Twin Emps... not at all. Was Kargath memorable... probably not. I would say Tectus was a pretty cool fight, Ko'ragh was uniqe, and Imperator as well. In BF - Gruul was a disappointment, Heart of the mountain was unique, Han/Frans and Operator were okay... and Blackhand was memorable.

I think for a lot of people early raiding just became a tank and spank. Minus a few intricacies. Blizzard decided we needed things to be much more hectic, and though that makes it a little more challenging, I don't think it makes it more fun. Look at this way Boxing these days is pretty boring now that UFC is around. Would adding a snake pit, spikes, and flame walls make boxing more interesting? No not really. Why? Because the good ones would simply learn to avoid it, and if your boxer dies to one of these elements... he has lost to the elements... not the opponent.

I like the WotLK model personally, and you had similar elements of disconnect between normal and heroic. In terms of the fights behaving differently, though some just hit harder and had more hp.

Catch up mechanics are essential for the current game model which is built specifically with the cyclical sub behavior of players.

The reverse is that the majority of players play early xpac content, and the minority plays true end game. That is bad design.

Tanaan wouldn't feel alive at all if only 5-10% of the population ever stepped foot into it. Keeping players caught up allows current content to feel more alive. As I have said before the trick becomes rewarding players appropriately. Seeing content is not its own reward.

ZG and AQ20 also greatly missed the mark back in the day. By the time ZG was released many people were already doing MC and ZG didn't provide any upgrades really. There were some amazing items locked behind a ridiculous reputation grind. But beyond that not a whole lot of reason to do it. Not rewarding players appropriately.

AQ20 was very much the same. It was way overtuned. The rewards were suboptimum, and for the players that could actually use it as upgrades it was too difficult. Not rewarding players appropriately.

[NightZero88]

In the glorious capitalist world we live in its rather simple: People demand a certain product, someone will deliver it.

Lets say people really want some characters rewritten in GoT, someone will write fanfiction to please these people. If he gets popular enough maybe even a book. Why should G.R.R.Martin have the write to stop him? Different products attract different people, maybe some even look into both.

Same with private servers, Blizzard evolved WoW, some people like old version better. Blizzard doesn't supply, so they go where ever they can.
It's the same with the war on drugs, you cannot win it... but you can be the one to provide the best supply and drown our competition.
But Blizzard ain't willing to provide so of course private servers spring up everywhere, there is a lot to be gained. Even the free servers get a certain reward: Respect and Admiration, it cannot buy you anything but it's good for the selfsteem.

Your examples don't really apply though. For example, in the case of Martin he doesn't have a right to stop the person if he is using made up characters as Martin doesn't own the fantasy genre. However, if the author uses Martin's characters and Martin has a copyright on those characters (he may, not sure) then Martin could definitely legally stop him.

In the case of WoW, Blizz owns all the assets to the game and so as above they could legally take action against anyone using their IP or assets.

In the case on drugs it doesn't apply as nobody "owns" the drug industry so it doesn't apply.

Also, it sounds like you're advocating we win the war on drugs by selling higher quality.

[Deleted]

Lets say people really want some characters rewritten in GoT, someone will write fanfiction to please these people. If he gets popular enough maybe even a book. Why should G.R.R.Martin have the write to stop him? Different products attract different people, maybe some even look into both.

Fanfiction is fair use, but just watch his publisher rain down like a ton of bricks onto whoever tries to make money on his IP (like writing and publishing a book without a licence to use the characters).
For some reference, this is what Tolkien Estate does: http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...bbit-producers (even after they sold the rights in 1996)

Same with private servers, Blizzard evolved WoW, some people like old version better. Blizzard doesn't supply, so they go where ever they can.
It's the same with the war on drugs, you cannot win it... but you can be the one to provide the best supply and drown our competition.
But Blizzard ain't willing to provide so of course private servers spring up everywhere, there is a lot to be gained. Even the free servers get a certain reward: Respect and Admiration, it cannot buy you anything but it's good for the selfsteem.

It's not at all same as war on drugs. This is about copyrights. War on drugs is about illegal sale of drugs. Do not go down that rabbithole of comparing apples and oranges.

Read about copyright laws a bit, it might make things a bit clearer

[kary]

Nearly 1k pages of people bitching about this. Fantastic.

"we want vanilla realms"
"The world is evolving and that goes against what we want for our IP"
"But we want them though"
"no"

No matter what blizz says, people are going to whine and cry until they get their way. That's how entitlement culture works, boys.

[Vorkreist]

WoD in terms of raiding (which is the only reason i ever played this game for) was good, although i dont like how 'good' addons are getting. Many bosses would be alot harder if they hadn't had specific addons to aid the fight. But still the raid content was on par with mop imo which was pretty good.



how many new words are we going to use for "criminals" in this thread? stop talking like they did a good thing. they did something illegal they got shut down, they can be happy that they arent getting dragged to court.

THen stop talking like they've killed and stole food from some pour people. You act as if you'd literally die if some other people got what they wanted (which wouldn't affect you). Spam that anti legacy stuff all you want, it still won't get the morbid retail out of its grave.

[Deleted]

Your examples don't really apply though. For example, in the case of Martin he doesn't have a right to stop the person if he is using made up characters as Martin doesn't own the fantasy genre. However, if the author uses Martin's characters and Martin has a copyright on those characters (he may, not sure) then Martin could definitely legally stop him.

In the case of WoW, Blizz owns all the assets to the game and so as above they could legally take action against anyone using their IP or assets.

In the case on drugs it doesn't apply as nobody "owns" the drug industry so it doesn't apply.

Also, it sounds like you're advocating we win the war on drugs by selling higher quality.

My Example specifically states: Rewrite characters, so they exist but they get changed in the way what they say. If da different experience, why does he have any rights on the NEW thing?

Yes, but they don't offer the product so why should we not be allowed to get the product? There is no logical reason.

Yes, if you want to win against illegal drug sells: Sell better quality drugs for a better price. Then you can control the drug consum and rehabilitate people. Better then throwing them in prison and destroy any chance for them to get back into society!

- - - Updated - - -

Fanfiction is fair use, but just watch his publisher rain down like a ton of bricks onto whoever tries to make money on his IP (like writing and publishing a book without a licence to use the characters).
For some reference, this is what Tolkien Estate does: http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...bbit-producers (even after they sold the rights in 1996)



It's not at all same as war on drugs. This is about copyrights. War on drugs is about illegal sale of drugs. Do not go down that rabbithole of comparing apples and oranges.

Read about copyright laws a bit, it might make things a bit clearer

But whats the logic behind him have the right to shut down a NEW interpretation?

Copyright laws are outdated and should have been changed years ago.

But to go down apples and oranges:
Vanilla is an apple, current WoW is an orange.
People want to eat an apple, but Blizzard only offers oranges.
Now someone opens a shop where you can buy apples, but now Blizzard shuts it down, because X years ago they sold apples?
There is no logic behind it, so it should change!