The Ebon Blade's new Four Horsemen (massive spoilers)

[JustRob]

Remember in Blood and Honor when Uther performed a ceremony to strip Tirion of his powers? I had no idea Uther could do that. Although in the end to his surprise, Tirion still had his powers anyway. The Light didn't betrayed him.

I don't understand how Uther can even be arrogant enough to think he could do that. If paladins truly believe in the Light as a holy, god-like deity, surely he must realize that it's not his place to decide who gets to use the Light and who doesn't? And Uther was the most faithful one of them all, he definitely should have known better.

[Maxilian]

Here's the thing. People here seem to be equating the Warcraft Paladin in the exact same vein as a D&D Paladin. They are similar, but not the same. If they were the same, Arthas would have lost his Paladin abilities the second he purged Stratholme and the Scarlet Crusaders would have lost theirs the second they began to think everyone who even had a case of pinkeye is a Scourge infectee. Because those sure as hell are not 'Lawful Good' actions, which a D&D Paladin would need to be in order to keep being a Paladin.

That only apply to old editions DnD Paladin, in 5E paladins don't need to be Lawful good, you can be a Chaotic Evil Paladin if you wish

[Deleted]

A Paladin follows, by standard, idealistic principles. Only paladins who are unbridled by politics and someone else's authority can fully honor those principles. Which means, in other words, that a fully Lawful Paladin can't be the "Ideal Paladin", exactly because ideals and law has the common habit of clashing constantly. Can every Paladin be like Tirion? Nope. But even the paladins of Alliance and Horde should strive to follow those principles, they're not supposed to relive in hatred, vengeance and bloodlust only because they serve a political faction, the protection and safety of their people should always be the only concern. If an Alliance paladin harbors hatred for the Horde or an Horde one does towards the Alliance then they're doing something wrong.

And I think that this is wrong. No one should have the right to place himself above law and order. I think that it's wrong. And Eitrigg made his choice. He had the choice not to take place in wars against races that never harmed his people. Every Orc killed the Draenei, killed humans and drank Demon Blood, all by his own free will. And he was Member of the Horde in the First and the Second War, so it's pretty sure that he took place in the destruction of Stormwind.

You say Eitrigg is a fine man. I say he is a swine, scum, because he doesn't even have decency to admit the crimes he committed, like Saurfang. But I don't want to speak about it anymore. I have my opinion and I don't think that its believable that many Paladins beside the Argent Dawn would view Fordring as a role model. If they did this, they would have followed him into exile and I think if Uther knew about the Crimes the Orcs commited in their homeworld, he would personally had smashed Eitriggs fel-corrupted skull.

And I think Tirion Fordring was a bad hero in Wotlk. He was just those empty white Knight. He didn't had any form of personality in Wotlk, besides his self-righteous old man attitude. And I don't think that he is a believable Ashbringer. Ashbringer is the pure embodiment of the Retribution Specc, a Weapon that burns evil to ashes. Tirion Fordring is not a believable retribution Paladin.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And that's why she founded her Order that did its best to defile everything that was holy?

She didn't found the order, Rommath did

[Deleted]

And I think that this is wrong. No one should have the right to place himself above law and order. I think that it's wrong. And Eitrigg made his choice. He had the choice not to take place in wars against races that never harmed his people. Every Orc killed the Draenei, killed humans and drank Demon Blood, all by his own free will. And he was Member of the Horde in the First and the Second War, so it's pretty sure that he took place in the destruction of Stormwind.

You say Eitrigg is a fine man. I say he is a swine, scum, because he doesn't even have decency to admit the crimes he committed, like Saurfang. But I don't want to speak about it anymore. I have my opinion and I don't think that its believable that many Paladins beside the Argent Dawn would view Fordring as a role model. If they did this, they would have followed him into exile and I think if Uther knew about the Crimes the Orcs commited in their homeworld, he would personally had smashed Eitriggs fel-corrupted skull.

And I think Tirion Fordring was a bad hero in Wotlk. He was just those empty white Knight. He didn't had any form of personality in Wotlk, besides his self-righteous old man attitude. And I don't think that he is a believable Ashbringer. Ashbringer is the pure embodiment of the Retribution Specc, a Weapon that burns evil to ashes. Tirion Fordring is not a believable retribution Paladin.

And yet you idolize the Scarlet Crusade, an order who, by and large, don't even have the decency to admit the crimes they continued to commit until Cataclysm, turning against each and every thing that is not "Scarlet Crusade", torturing and murdering innocents due to nothing more than paranoia and the manipulations of the evil all Paladin's should stand against.

[Zahlen]

Soo --- any word on where the hell the Paladin PCs are when these ebonfags are in OUR base.. killing OUR dudes.
I'd love to test my new Ashbringer against the fragments of the frostmourne...

[Raetary]

Soo --- any word on where the hell the Paladin PCs are when these ebonfags are in OUR base.. killing OUR dudes.
I'd love to test my new Ashbringer against the fragments of the frostmourne...

probably kicking demon ass on the isles.

[Zorish]

Soo --- any word on where the hell the Paladin PCs are when these ebonfags are in OUR base.. killing OUR dudes.
I'd love to test my new Ashbringer against the fragments of the frostmourne...

you are in the thread of Ebon blade and talking "our"... hm... feed him to ghouls!!!

anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYubHrPOv_4 by watching this i think - you was busy kicking Balnazzar ass and getting your holy dread lord follower because Liandri not presented there (or i not see her)

[Maxilian]

Soo --- any word on where the hell the Paladin PCs are when these ebonfags are in OUR base.. killing OUR dudes.
I'd love to test my new Ashbringer against the fragments of the frostmourne...

Fighting demons in the isles or helping out Velen in the Priest order hall cause they are being invaded by Balnazzar

[Zorish]

Have they implemented last Horseman quest? And how do you think - will it end there or after raising Tirion campaing continue? (i saw in legion thread some strings like our class enemy is Malganis so...)

[Deleted]

And yet you idolize the Scarlet Crusade, an order who, by and large, don't even have the decency to admit the crimes they continued to commit until Cataclysm, turning against each and every thing that is not "Scarlet Crusade", torturing and murdering innocents due to nothing more than paranoia and the manipulations of the evil all Paladin's should stand against.

I don't idolize them. I like them as a fictional Faction because they are nothing you should idolize and because I like stories that just don't potray war as something that makes you a great and respectable Person that can only win as long as you fight honorable and good. I would like a Story were war turns good people into murderers and criminals, not because they are evil but because they reach the point were they don't see another way. I like the Scarlet Crusade for what a good writer could make of them: A Paladin Faction that leaves every idealism and heroism on the topic Paladin behind. I think Scarlet Crusade as a playable faction after the whole Arthas Stratholme Story would have been a good opportunity to destroy the whole Paladin-Myth in Fantasy, by tossing them into a situation were you have only the choice that you could do it the wrong way and save at least a few or the honorable and good way and save nothing, because the enemy uses everything you hold dear against you. I would love a more consequent and realistic war Paladins against a enemy a Paladin with his methods, his moral standarts and his honor never could beat because he uses methods that forces a Paladin into sacrificing his standarts or losing. That has nothing to do with idolizing, more with what a Story I would prefer. But its easier to write a story about how the good defeat the bad only by virtue.

[Deleted]

Have they implemented last Horseman quest? And how do you think - will it end there or after raising Tirion campaing continue? (i saw in legion thread some strings like our class enemy is Malganis so...)

Is he really? I'v been waiting for Mal'ganis to return after Wotlk questline in Icecrown after he didnt show up in ICC

[Zorish]

Is he really? I'v been waiting for Mal'ganis to return after Wotlk questline in Icecrown after he didnt show up in ICC

i can't confirm this. I only remember http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s#post37917520 this post from legion disscusion thread and http://legion.wowhead.com/npc=94471/malganis#sounds npc. This from more early builds when campaings wasn't implemented so... nothing confirmed. That's why i want to know what happen during assault of Light's Hope and after.

[KaiserSolarius]

I don't idolize them. I like them as a fictional Faction because they are nothing you should idolize and because I like stories that just don't potray war as something that makes you a great and respectable Person that can only win as long as you fight honorable and good. I would like a Story were war turns good people into murderers and criminals, not because they are evil but because they reach the point were they don't see another way. I like the Scarlet Crusade for what a good writer could make of them: A Paladin Faction that leaves every idealism and heroism on the topic Paladin behind. I think Scarlet Crusade as a playable faction after the whole Arthas Stratholme Story would have been a good opportunity to destroy the whole Paladin-Myth in Fantasy, by tossing them into a situation were you have only the choice that you could do it the wrong way and save at least a few or the honorable and good way and save nothing, because the enemy uses everything you hold dear against you. I would love a more consequent and realistic war Paladins against a enemy a Paladin with his methods, his moral standarts and his honor never could beat because he uses methods that forces a Paladin into sacrificing his standarts or losing. That has nothing to do with idolizing, more with what a Story I would prefer. But its easier to write a story about how the good defeat the bad only by virtue.

*hugs*
Brother!

[Zulkhan]

You say Eitrigg is a fine man. I say he is a swine, scum, because he doesn't even have decency to admit the crimes he committed, like Saurfang. But I don't want to speak about it anymore.

Better not, since there's nothing to talk about. You deliberately craft stuff that makes no sense outside of your head. That's not an opinion, that's what you want to believe ignoring everything canon lore blatantly shown. You have nothing but a confirmation bias to feed. That's all that needs to be said.

And I don't think that he is a believable Ashbringer. Ashbringer is the pure embodiment of the Retribution Specc, a Weapon that burns evil to ashes. Tirion Fordring is not a believable retribution Paladin.

Highlord Tirion Fordring says: We will take the fight to Arthas, and we will tear down the walls of Icecrown!
Highlord Tirion Fordring yells: The Argent Crusade comes for you, Arthas!

Sounds quite Retribution-ish I say. More than Uther or even Mograine, to be fair. Surely he beats every paladin in terms of charisma (and Bernard Hill is helpful indeed).

[steelballfc]

Better not, since there's nothing to talk about. You deliberately craft stuff that makes no sense outside of your head. That's not an opinion, that's what you want to believe ignoring everything canon lore blatantly shown. You have nothing but a confirmation bias to feed. That's all that needs to be said.




Highlord Tirion Fordring says: We will take the fight to Arthas, and we will tear down the walls of Icecrown!
Highlord Tirion Fordring yells: The Argent Crusade comes for you, Arthas!

Sounds quite Retribution-ish I say. More than Uther or even Mograine, to be fair. Surely he beats every paladin in terms of charisma (and Bernard Hill is helpful indeed).

this is the 2nd day you both speak about Etrigg "war crimes"
Note : I'm with Zulkhan the post slayer

[Chipskunk]

just think, if the glorified space goats hadn't landed on draenor, or at least had a huge sign saying, we're being chased by evil, none of this would have happened, or it might have at some point since we now know the legion wants to exterminate everything. but still, this is all the planet hopping spacegoats fault. they should have just gone to another planet not inhabited by "intelligent" life, or at least tried to prepare the native populations for the onslaught. which leads to the question of why weren't they trying to recruit? doesn't seem like they did that until they joined the alliance and that was only because they were kind of forced to. damn spacegoats ruining everyone's fun.

[steelballfc]

just think, if the glorified space goats hadn't landed on draenor, or at least had a huge sign saying, we're being chased by evil, none of this would have happened, or it might have at some point since we now know the legion wants to exterminate everything. but still, this is all the planet hopping spacegoats fault. they should have just gone to another planet not inhabited by "intelligent" life, or at least tried to prepare the native populations for the onslaught. which leads to the question of why weren't they trying to recruit? doesn't seem like they did that until they joined the alliance and that was only because they were kind of forced to. damn spacegoats ruining everyone's fun.

spacegoats
spacegoats Everywhere

[delus]

I also think Galen Trollbane just jumped to my list of "ain't even sorry" NPC's I've butchered to complete a quest. He really is a coward strutting around with a title he never deserved - I'm not sure how Thoras' line could've created such a chump in the first place. I hope Thoras comes back to Stromgarde after all is said and done in Legion to give the undead citizens a ruler worth something.

And the living ones.

[Chipskunk]

gotta remember space goats do not = spaceghost