Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

This. People need to be realistic and see that what they want to experience will not be the same as what it once was. Sure you'll get something similar but only for several months at which point people will either want the next patch or expansion or quit completely.

For Blizzard this doesn't sound viable at all.

All other MMOs that have done this disagree with you.

[Lolsteak]

This. People need to be realistic and see that what they want to experience will not be the same as what it once was. Sure you'll get something similar but only for several months at which point people will either want the next patch or expansion or quit completely.

For Blizzard this doesn't sound viable at all.

It's been 12 years since Vanilla released and people are still playing it, Next.

[Pann]

Really? So you'd go with the guy who hasn't gotten a single good achievement under his belt for over ten years after leaving Blizzard, has two colossal failures in his track record as his latest accomplishments, over Blizzard's words? (not mine, but Blizzard's, since I just point out at what Blizzard says in reply to vanlla servers).

Seriously. Go read the testimonies from people who worked under him in his company: he was a very bad manager and his views of what to do in a game would change constantly, according to what an ex-employee of his said: "He would swoop in one afternoon and berate a series of features several teams had spent months on, declaring they begin again and LISTEN to what he told them to do. He’d be back in a few days to see if it was done. This crushed morale, and forced people into spontaneous, isolated crunch mode. He would shout and scream his perspectives. He would ignore anything that didn’t fit his immediate viewpoint – which was subject to sudden, violent changes. He would rage-email people in the small hours of the night, or on weekends."

Can you imagine how bad WoW would be, had Mark Kern stayed with Blizzard working on WoW, considering how he managed FireFall and The9? Considering how he'd change his mind often, radically, about features being worked into the game, insulted employees, etc?

This might raise some red flags if Kern was putting himself forward to run a legacy server project however he has volunteered to be nothing more than a glorified (and probably unnecessary) mail man. I am under no illusion that his reasons are at least in part motivated by self promotion but none of his failings as a developer or a manager mean he is unable to deliver a petition.

I just hope he still has his bus, I would pay good money to see him rock up to Blizzard HQ in his $3million, 1980's vision of the future of public transport.

[Jewsco]

Thought that the WoW tokens did count towards subscription, so even less real players.

How is that less than real players? The token is paid for with real money, actually more money than a sub is. So it is more money for blizz. Blizz is more than happy for players to be paying for subs with tokens.

[Pann]

Yeah. now that leads us a few years down the road. When all patches have been used up. Less and less people will play. Turning it into something that will not profit. The only sulotion would be to close them down the second they are not making money off of it. And people won't like that. So they do not start servers at all. Better for everyone.

Stop living in the past.

If the servers are making so little money that they need to be shut down then it is unlikely that there will be many players/customers around not to like it.

[Jewsco]

This might raise some red flags if Kern was putting himself forward to run a legacy server project however he has volunteered to be nothing more than a glorified (and probably unnecessary) mail man. I am under no illusion that his reasons are at least in part motivated by self promotion but none of his failings as a developer or a manager mean he is unable to deliver a petition.

I just hope he still has his bus, I would pay good money to see him rock up to Blizzard HQ in his $3million, 1980's vision of the future of public transport.

You truely believe he wants nothing out of this? What world are you from? You know damn well he will also throw in that he would be more than happy to run the legacy servers for them. Be head of legacy servers. No way is he not wanting something out of this.

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It's been 12 years since Vanilla released and people are still playing it, Next.

For free. I play a lot of phone or computer games for free but am way more selective in the games or quaility of the games if I have to pay for it.

[Lolsteak]

You truely believe he wants nothing out of this? What world are you from? You know damn well he will also throw in that he would be more than happy to run the legacy servers for them. Be head of legacy servers. No way is he not wanting something out of this.

He says he's retired and doesn't want to return to Blizzard, Multiple times.

You say he wants something out of it.

I wonder who to believe.. The guy in question or forum user #5235267..

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You truely believe he wants nothing out of this? What world are you from? You know damn well he will also throw in that he would be more than happy to run the legacy servers for them. Be head of legacy servers. No way is he not wanting something out of this.

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For free. I play a lot of phone or computer games for free but am way more selective in the games or quaility of the games if I have to pay for it.

Illegally

Don't forget that

[Ielenia]

He himself admitted to some mistakes, but clearly debunked most of these claims. It's easy to target someone reputation when you disagree with him. It's called a fallacy.

Not that simple. People are using his reputation (worked on Vanilla WoW) to say/imply that his support of the vanilla server idea has any validity. That opens the door to have his reputation questioned.

[Jewsco]

[QUOTE=Lolsteak;39970492]He says he's retired and doesn't want to return to Blizzard, Multiple times.

You say he wants something out of it.

I wonder who to believe.. The guy in question is forum user #5235267..




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Sure people do things like this all the time out of the kindness of thier hearts. Why make a public scene if he doesn't want attention? Couldn't be just call up the people from blizz and talk to them about it quietly? Also, no one ever comes out of retirement either right?

[Lolsteak]

Not that simple. People are using his reputation (worked on Vanilla WoW) to say/imply that his support of the vanilla server idea has any validity. That opens the door to have his reputation questioned.

If we were talking about Firefall sure, We are however not.

We're talking about a game he worked on which was a huge success. His recent career history doesn't change what happened in the past.

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Sure people do things like this all the time out of the kindness of thier hearts. Why make a public scene if he doesn't want attention? Couldn't be just call up the people from blizz and talk to them about it quietly? Also, no one ever comes out of retirement either right?

Because he wants to drum up support for Vanilla Servers? Why does he have to do it quietly?

[Eliseus]

You truely believe he wants nothing out of this? What world are you from? You know damn well he will also throw in that he would be more than happy to run the legacy servers for them. Be head of legacy servers. No way is he not wanting something out of this.

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For free. I play a lot of phone or computer games for free but am way more selective in the games or quaility of the games if I have to pay for it.

What if he did? The game has already been made. He would just be overwatching (pun) it. Good luck screwing that up.

Also you just openly admitted that the free to play people on a classic server would pay. You choose a quality of gaming that typically appeals to a free to play audience. The payment with Nost is irrelevant since most of those players would most likely pay to play. Again, this isn't a stereotype because it isn't true.

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Not that simple. People are using his reputation (worked on Vanilla WoW) to say/imply that his support of the vanilla server idea has any validity. That opens the door to have his reputation questioned.

Still waiting for real life credentials from you. You must be a CEO of several gaming companies, or be a dev for Blizzard with all the claims you make while downplaying someone else credentials. What is it?

[Ielenia]

If we were talking about Firefall sure, We are however not.

We're talking about a game he worked on which was a huge success. His recent career history doesn't change what happened in the past.

Listen: either his past matters as a whole, or it doesn't matter at all. You don't get to pick-and-choose which parts of his past matter and which doesn't. You want to point out at a project he worked on in the past that because successful? Fine. But that means we also get to point out at other projects he worked on in his past that became failures.

[MoanaLisa]

I just hope he still has his bus, I would pay good money to see him rock up to Blizzard HQ in his $3million, 1980's vision of the future of public transport.

It's unlikely. The bus never ran like it should have and as built is too wide to travel on city streets without a front and back escort and using alternate routes.

West Coast Customs, who built the bus, told them that it was too wide to drive but were told to build it anyway. It's supposed to be sitting in a warehouse somewhere. No one has seen it in years apparently.

[Eliseus]

Listen: either his past matters as a whole, or it doesn't matter at all. You don't get to pick-and-choose which parts of his past matter and which doesn't. You want to point out at a project he worked on in the past that because successful? Fine. But that means we also get to point out at other projects he worked on in his past that became failures.

YOU don't get to pick and choose to ad hominem your arguments. How about giving some actually relevant concrete evidence to your opinions on the failures? Oh, you can't.

[Lolsteak]

Listen: either his past matters as a whole, or it doesn't matter at all. You don't get to pick-and-choose which parts of his past matter and which doesn't.

Sure I do, We're discussing Vanilla servers for a version of WoW which is already complete and has been complete for 10 years, This isn't a new game in the making.

You want to point out at a project he worked on in the past that because successful? Fine. But that means we also get to point out at other projects he worked on in his past that became failures.

Doesn't work like that, WoW Vanilla is already complete and has been complete for 10 years we players simply want to play it again, Just look at all the re-releases of older games on newer hardware nowadays.

[Pann]

You truely believe he wants nothing out of this? What world are you from? You know damn well he will also throw in that he would be more than happy to run the legacy servers for them. Be head of legacy servers. No way is he not wanting something out of this.

Uhm, no. That is why I wrote "I am under no illusion that his reasons are at least in part motivated by self promotion...". I don't damn well know that and neither do you.

Please try to reply to something that I have actually written instead of some random argument you've constructed as a result of not reading my post.

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Listen: either his past matters as a whole, or it doesn't matter at all. You don't get to pick-and-choose which parts of his past matter and which doesn't. You want to point out at a project he worked on in the past that because successful? Fine. But that means we also get to point out at other projects he worked on in his past that became failures.

Nothing about his past indicates that he is not qualified or capable of delivering some mail.

[Deficineiron]

It's a cute construct you've made. It's very binary and untrue at some level. Things were more difficult then, only the dull and uninformed would not agree. As a priest or mage, drinking after every mob you engaged with was tedious. The two states can co-exist simultaneously. Just as holy paladins and some others who leveled as healers have stories about how back in the day it would sometimes take a very long time to kill a mob due to their low damage output while they were fairly safe themselves that's also a bit of both although if you're fairly safe but taking a while to knock down quest mobs that qualifies as tedious. So come on, it's not one or the other. Taking several minutes longer to finish a quest due to low damage output while in little danger otherwise is tedious. It's also not very difficult. A lot depends on what spec you were leveling in.

on a serious note, I don't disagree. You no doubt have seen folks stating explicity that mobs doing more damage isn't difficulty, but just adding tedium. The only way I know how to debate with that standard is to simply take it as a given and illustrate how it can be applied. So when the thread gets thick with the 'taking more damage and doing less damage isn't a difficulty factor, it is just tedious' crowd, you may see me agreeing. Why shouldn't I?

Once damage done/damage taken/healthpools/time to level etc. are 'eliminated' as diffuclty factors, why not take the absurd to a higher extreme? am I supposed to actually 'debate' with that kind of claim?????

I haven't seen all 1000 pages but have you taken this up with 'the dull and uninformed' folks who made the claim in the first place? They were dead serious as far as I could tell.

The matter (taking up the tedium issue with me instead of the folks who are actually arguing it seriously) seems like ignoring the guy on the corner with a sign saying the earth is flat, while debating the satirist across the street doing a show based on the flat-earther's claim.

An optimistic interpretation is that, unlike the geniune Tedium adherents, I am actually getting a point across - that discounting damage ratios as a difficulty factor is laughable and absurd.

Sometimes it is fun to take these strange notions one sees on the internet and 'try them on,' so to speak. For example, with the Tedium Rule, once it is granted that damage numbers do not influence difficulty (and you have folks saying exactly that) unless there is a mechanic change, you can start trying to apply that standard to video games in general. Suppose a mob moves a bit faster. I would think that decreases tedium (moves to you faster, over faster), but if damage isn't difficulty, is mob speed? If it isn't, you can prove a large quantity of early video games that had levels or other progressive effects were not getting more difficult, just more tedious, because the enemies only moved faster and hit harder, neither of which is a factor in difficulty.

I think the Tedium Rule adherents have already proven (perhaps unintended) that a fair amount of multi-difficulty content on wow was in fact only multi-Tedium, as there was no difficulty increase. They have clearly proven that the % nerfs to bosses in late bc and icc had no impact on difficulty, because just reducing/increasing damage has no impact on difficulty!!

Seriously, look across at the guy across the street. I am just the comic relief!! what happened to the jester in King Lear anyway??

[Flower Milk]

Blizzard responds to 200k+ person petition being delivered to them:

https://twitter.com/Frank_Pearce/sta...37366523867136

#EarthDay2016 I hope everyone opted for electronic copies in lieu of printed documents.

Basically some smug comment about how they're just going to throw it away and don't really care. This is becoming ridiculous. Is this really how they treat fans of their game? Real professional. As this continues to go on they just seem to becoming more and more assholes in response to this.

[Deficineiron]

Blizzard responds to 200k+ person petition being delivered to them:

https://twitter.com/Frank_Pearce/sta...37366523867136



Basically some smug comment about how they're just going to throw it away and don't really care. This is becoming ridiculous. Is this really how they treat fans of their game? Real professional. As this continues to go on they just seem to becoming more and more assholes in response to this.

why would you expect anything else? The flock doesn't tell the shepherd how to dress.

[Kalador]

Blizzard responds to 200k+ person petition being delivered to them:

https://twitter.com/Frank_Pearce/sta...37366523867136



Basically some smug comment about how they're just going to throw it away and don't really care. This is becoming ridiculous. Is this really how they treat fans of their game? Real professional.

no you're assuming it was aim at the petition, guess what, not every thing blizzard people say is an hidden msg about legacy/petition... And even if it was.. printing it on 11k sheet is pretty retarded and a giant waste of time/money.