blood elves and dalaran in legion

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Poor writing was the reason the Blood elves even thought about leaving. If Blizz writers were better Garrosh would have been handled better.

- - - Updated - - -



Forsaken barged right the hell in.

I love how if its a decision you don't like its "poor writing.." and if its something that the Alliance does wrong youre all about calling them dumb hypocrites... ironic, really.

[Dellis0991]

The AA supported Garithos, and the Kirin'tor stood by slack jawed when he sentenced them to death. The main reason they hate the Alliance is because they sent spies and saboteurs when the Scorge threatened to overrun them, and only the Horde sent real concrete help.

Alliance: Quick guys kick em while their in danger of being steamrolled by a undead army!
Horde: Are you fucking serious? I thought you guys were allies at some point?
Alliance:......no comment...
Horde: but-
Alliance: NO....COMMENT...

- - - Updated - - -

I love how if its a decision you don't like its "poor writing.." and if its something that the Alliance does wrong youre all about calling them dumb hypocrites... ironic, really.

I'm a alliance fella and even I see the fuck ups that happen with alliance like why the fuck is Greymane worrying about fighting the forsaken when we got demons marching through portals by the thousands and flipping us the bird?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm a alliance fella and even I see the fuck ups that happen with alliance like why the fuck is Greymane worrying about fighting the forsaken when we got demons marching through portals by the thousands and flipping us the bird?

I wasn't implying the Alliance never fucks, I was stating that that poster is a huge hypocrite.

*Alliance does something bad* DIRTY BASTARDS!

*Horde does something bad* BAD WRITING! IT WASN'T THE HORDES FAULT!!!!

Thats how he is always is on these matters.

[Wildmoon]

I'm a alliance fella and even I see the fuck ups that happen with alliance like why the fuck is Greymane worrying about fighting the forsaken when we got demons marching through portals by the thousands and flipping us the bird?

People have emotions. If everyone is rational then it becomes unrealistic. Malfurion warned against creating the new world tree and he got blamed for not caring about his people. Tirion helped Etrigg and he was stripped of his title.

[Koryn123]

Get used to it. The Legion is here, so I'm sure WoW is spiraling toward the end of its story, and I doubt Blizzard is going to take any time to give any non-human races any nice development before the end.

These days, everything goes to humans/Dalaran. They get everything.

It's not bad writing that the Horde and Alliance are cooperating in Dalaran again.

It's bad writing because Blizzard is having every character in WoW pretend they love each other, when a year before, one side was hunting and gleefully beating the other side to death for imagined slights. (Vereesa and the Silver Covenant against Sunreaver civilians because "they killed her husband." Oh, but Garrosh? Nah, "here, Anduin. This is the guy actually responsible for my husband's death, so I'm going to tell you that his food is poisoned, and because you're a naive adolescent priest of the Light, you're obviously going to tell him so he doesn't eat it, resulting in the deaths of thousands or maybe even millions when he goes free. Hooray for us Alliance, we do the right thing~")

Blood Elves are perfectly willing to work in Dalaran, even their hundreds or thousands of year old magi are kowtowing to the all-knowing 30-year old human magi's way of doing things.

Blood Elves are perfectly willing to work with the Silver Covenant at the Hunter Order Hall. And they're perfectly willing to be subservient to not only Vereesa (the grunt-rank ranger who betrayed her kingdom, then subsequently formed a racist militia for the sole purpose of opposing the Blood Elves who'd done nothing to her, giving herself the title of "Ranger-General," a rank historically used by those noble heroes of Quel'thalas who gave their lives to defend it, and most recently by her sister, while all she's ever done is harm it, thus being in incredibly poor taste), but also her own grunt-rank underlings.

Vereesa is the stupid hot girl that survives in the horror movie, while the person who actually uses their brain dies, normally trying to help the girl because they did something stupid.


A good way to rationally bridge the gap at least between the Silver Covenant and Farstriders in the Hunter Order Hall would have been to have Auric Sunchaser be the one in charge of the mission to recover Alleria. He was Alleria's third-in-command (second-in-command hasn't been mentioned since the WC2:BtDP novel, and is either dead or with Alleria fighting her 1,000 year war), and is a Captain in the Farstrider Ranger Corps., so his expertise and skill would be recognized and acknowledged by both the Blood Elf Farstriders (who still honor the Allerian Stronghold high elves as heroes of Quel'thalas) and the Silver Covenant.

Auric has shown interest in bridging the gap before, during the Quel'Delar quest chain. He's the perfect choice.

But instead, it's Vereesa, and she says "I'm going to go in alone. It's my fight, so nobody follow me." And a concerned Farstrider says she shouldn't do that, rightly stating that she's too emotionally invested in the mission, which she unconvincingly denies, and she doesn't listen. So, the concerned Farstrider disobeys her and goes through the portal. She says "No, it's too dangerous to go alone, even though I was just about to do the exact same thing." And what do you know, the guy ends up dead. He's the practical rationally-thinking guy in the horror movie who dies trying to help the stupid stubborn hot girl, Vereesa.

So, the Farstriders kowtow to Vereesa, despite her being a grunt-rank ranger who betrayed her kingdom and has acted as a terrorist to it ever since. But hey, standing in front of Zul'Aman next to them doing nothing was nice of her, right?


I wouldn't mind it at all if she'd built on the cooperation at Zul'Aman in Cataclysm, but she hasn't. She hated the Blood Elves in WotLK, then helped them in Cata at Zul'Aman, then readily showed up at Theramore to help defend it, calling them monsters, then in MoP, gleefully sent Alliance to murder innocent Blood Elf shopkeepers remaining in their homes and businesses, staying out of the fight, and sent them to murder someone withdrawing his own assets from the bank before fleeing, claiming he deserved to die because he was "probably" going to steal their stuff too, and so she said he should die, and his stuff would now be theirs, because hypocrisy is hilarious.

Then on Isle of Thunder, she was still blaming the Blood Elves for Garrosh killing Rhonin. Then in War Crimes, she makes the choice that will obviously result in Garrosh living. After she gave the Blood Elves so much crap for imagined slights.


But hey, the Farstriders should totally follow her. Because reasons.


Same with any Blood Elves, or even any Horde being at all interested in helping the Kirin Tor in the mage order hall.


Again, it's not bad writing that they're working together. It's bad writing that Blizzard is sweeping their obvious animosity under the rug and pretending nothing ever happened in hopes that nobody will ask, so they don't have to put any effort into the story and can just focus on bringing notable names back into the game, but attaching them to characters that are unrecognizable from the last time we saw them, hoping the name fame will boost their subscription numbers (Magni being a greater-good diamond dwarf, Turalyon and Alleria replacing Draenei as the immortal Legion-hunters for no reason other than so they're high and mighty and all-knowing and thus have no interest in the High Elf/Blood Elf conflict so Blizzard doesn't have to make one group of fans mad by actually making a decision as to whether Alleria would be loyal to her people or become another childish Vereesa clone whose sole purpose in life is killing them, Illidan being called a champion of the Light, etc.).


And in some cases, going WAY overboard in making the non-human races lick the humans' boots. Most notably, Aethas committing high treason just for the chance to be allowed back in Dalaran where he'd be mistrusted and hated forever.

And nobody objecting when the guy who sat back while the selfless strongest of the surviving Blood Elves led by his fellow Council member Kael'thas, only there in Dalaran to help the humans, were nearly executed asks how do they know Aethas won't betray them again, and the no-name crappy cancelled Dark Riders comic bastard says that recovering a sword that belongs to your kingdom and giving it back to your kingdom would be untrustworthy of him.


Humans are always loyal to humans before their fellow Kirin Tor's lives when they're elves, so why does Jaina, Ansirem, or anyone else blame Aethas for putting his people before his fellow Kirin Tor's feelings?

[Lochton]

The Sunreavers betrayed Dalaran.

Actually, they didn't. A select few did. Jaina then got pissed at everyone.

Though, luckily, the Dalaran in Legion is run by Khadgar - Blood Elves are once more welcomed.

[FelPlague]

no, the sunreavers didn't. garrosh's agents did.

dalaran were the ones that went and started slaughtering sunreaver civilians that had no idea why it was going on.

ok so as a major lore nerd? FUCK OFF

the quest litterally has you go to silvermoon and the bell IS THERE with a bunch of blood elves

jaina and the others at first were not hostile, she started by teleporting the sunreavers to silvermoon forcefully, but they started to attack back, so she froze them then teleported them (as seen if you walk up to her well shes walking around) then they kept attacking ,then she had to draw blood

yes what she did was overall wrong... but the horde.. the horde she had sacrificed so much for, helped keep them alive, for them to betray her AGAIN and just after the bombing of theramore...

the people who killed everyone you know and love... yet you let them stay in YOUR CITY.... then they still betray you? she was hurt... she had every right to kick them out... sadly just the sunreavers fought back and some were killed... yes it was under garrosh's orders not the blood elf council... but it was the horde... it was bloodelves under garrosh, and jaina could not have known, as even if she talked to them (as some reccomended) that would prove nothing ,they could have lied

- - - Updated - - -

Alliance: Quick guys kick em while their in danger of being steamrolled by a undead army!
Horde: Are you fucking serious? I thought you guys were allies at some point?
Alliance:......no comment...
Horde: but-
Alliance: NO....COMMENT...

- - - Updated - - -



I'm a alliance fella and even I see the fuck ups that happen with alliance like why the fuck is Greymane worrying about fighting the forsaken when we got demons marching through portals by the thousands and flipping us the bird?

1. no one helped them during the war against the scourage cause it came out of no where...
2. because both sides know "if we win then we will lose alot of people on both sides and will need to grow, and if we can kill the oposite faction well their weak, we can rebuild the world, under out faction name"

also alot of them still have gripes, sylvanas ruined greymanes homeland ,and killed his only son... his only chance at his family name going on....

[Arrashi]

Telling jaina to fuck off and stripping her from leadership was a solid apology. Lets just hope she will get corrupted in a fit of rage and end up dead.

[Koryn123]

also alot of them still have gripes, sylvanas ruined greymanes homeland ,and killed his only son... his only chance at his family name going on....

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tess_Greymane

Just a name. No big deal. One should be sadder over the death of the person, not the fact that people won't be writing it on their school assignments anymore.

Besides, WoW isn't a very accurate representation of medieval themes. Tess might not change her name if she were to get married at some point in WoW.

Jaina and Arthas got married in the alternate timeline Thrall visited in the Twilight of the Aspects, and it made no mention of "Jaina Menethil," only "Jaina Proudmoore."


Also, about Jaina "sacrificing so much for the Horde" here's a long post I did that details most of what happened. There were a few mistakes that were corrected over the course of the conversation in that thread, but for the most part, I think it's accurate.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post39570729

Also, you don't know your lore. Jaina was never teleporting Sunreavers to Silvermoon. She was teleporting them to the Violet Hold.

The Sunreavers weren't involved in the Divine Bell heist at all. Fanlyr Silverthorn was loyal to Garrosh, wasn't a Sunreaver, and hijacked the Kirin Tor's portal network to get Horde agents into Darnassus to steal the Divine Bell.

Aethas walked in on them as they were doing it, and Garrosh's lackey Ishi stomped up to Aethas and said that if he did anything to give them away, the Blood Elves would pay the price.

So, Aethas put his people before the Kirin Tor, just like the Kirin Tor did when they sided with Garithos when Garithos was going to execute Kael'thas (who was one of the oldest members of Dalaran's ruling council) and the other Blood Elves.

Aethas was the ONLY Sunreaver aware that anything was up. The rest were completely innocent. Anyone who says differently is a dork.


Also, about their resisting arrest, what do you think would happen if the president ordered the KKK to arrest all black people? Do you think the black people would just take their word for it? No, of course not. They know full well that the KKK hate them, and thus wouldn't trust them at all.

That's exactly what it was like for the Silver Covenant to walk up to the Sunreavers and say "Hey, Jaina gave us permission to arrest you, so trust us, the people that obviously hate you."

The Silver Covenant is an organization that was formed by Vereesa for the sole purpose of opposing the Blood Elves' readmission to the Kirin Tor, so it was only natural for the Sunreavers to resist.

If Jaina wanted things to not be a bloodbath, she should have sent Kirin Tor to apprehend the Sunreavers for a thorough investigation. The Silver Covenant have no political authority in Dalaran, as they are not Kirin Tor members (unlike the Sunreavers), nor are they Dalaran's police force.

And Jaina doesn't have the authority to make such decisions on her own anyway. She's the "leader" of the Council of Six thanks to Krasus' bs prophecy that Blizzard is thankfully sweeping under the rug two years after it was given, but it's still a Council. She's not High Queen of Dalaran.

[Austilias]

Though, luckily, the Dalaran in Legion is run by Khadgar - Blood Elves are once more welcomed.

Of course they are...

I can't imagine why anyone would play this game for the writing, nowadays.

[FelPlague]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tess_Greymane

Just a name. No big deal. One should be sadder over the death of the person, not the fact that people won't be writing it on their school assignments anymore.

quick
greymane does not know if she lives or not, as she is a assasin, a rogue, in hiding, he does not know if she is alive or dead
also this is a "kingdom" type game ,where a surname means alot, its a legacy, a meaning, the scottish still have this feeling to the date of "our legacy must live" and yes, a surname living on means ALOT

also males keep name, females lose name, so yeah his only child that can keep the "greymane" surname going, as if tess married she would take the males last name

[Wyrt]

They got screwed over because they're a subject nation of the horde. Next time don't become a subject nation.

[Lochton]

Of course they are...

I can't imagine why anyone would play this game for the writing, nowadays.

Well, the writing changed at lore when Jaina lost control of Dalaran. The Blood Elves has been long members, all the way back through their High Elven days too. Even if it was for the writing, it would be a loss to not permit them back. The problem on the table is all the Forsaken stuff........

[Koryn123]

quick
greymane does not know if she lives or not, as she is a assasin, a rogue, in hiding, he does not know if she is alive or dead
also this is a "kingdom" type game ,where a surname means alot, its a legacy, a meaning, the scottish still have this feeling to the date of "our legacy must live" and yes, a surname living on means ALOT

also males keep name, females lose name, so yeah his only child that can keep the "greymane" surname going, as if tess married she would take the males last name

And where is your evidence that he doesn't know if she's alive or not? Baseless headcanon?


"Males keep name, females lose name" is a tradition in most patriarchal societies, but you're not compelled to do it these days. Some women hyphenate, or don't change their last name at all when they get married. It's not a requirement. WoW isn't real life. If it were like real-life medieval times, do you think Jaina, Tess, or any other notable female characters would get the chance to be notable? No, they'd be sitting in castles wearing dresses and sewing.

In WoW, men and women are equals, for the most part. I highly doubt that you'd be executed or anything if you said "no, I'm gonna leave my name as is."

[FelPlague]

And where is your evidence that he doesn't know if she's alive or not? Baseless headcanon?


"Males keep name, females lose name" is a tradition in most patriarchal societies, but you're not compelled to do it. Some women hyphenate, or don't change their last name at all when they get married. It's not a requirement. WoW isn't real life. If it were like real-life medieval times, do you think Jaina, Tess, or any other notable female characters would get the chance to be notable? No, they'd be sitting in castles wearing dresses and sewing.

yes but we have seen from those married in this game that females do change their name, also its because he does not mention her at all, and does not see her, and mentions a few times "my last child" could be reference to him being his "last born" also jaina's parents are dead... tess ran off.. so if they were with their parents yes they would be locked up in a castle... as jaina was when her father was alive, she was not to leave sight, or dalaran without escorts by royalty...

[Koryn123]

yes but we have seen from those married in this game that females do change their name, also its because he does not mention her at all, and does not see her, and mentions a few times "my last child" could be reference to him being his "last born" also jaina's parents are dead... tess ran off.. so if they were with their parents yes they would be locked up in a castle... as jaina was when her father was alive, she was not to leave sight, or dalaran without escorts by royalty...

That'll be Tess's choice when/if the time comes. If Genn treats his legacy as dead because his son is dead, while he still has a healthy daughter, that'd be douchy of him to Tess. He's still muscular and fit and a worgen and all that. If he really wanted, he could be a sleazebag and make another son behind Mia Greymane's back.

That's a dad being protective of his daughter living in another country. You'd do the same if you were an important figure with the power to keep her safe while she was studying abroad.

Please provide a canon source saying that Tess ran off. The last we heard from her before Legion was that she reached Teldrassil safely. Genn's wife also hasn't been mentioned. Neither have many other characters. That doesn't mean they're in hiding or sneaking around or dead. It means Blizzard doesn't have a use for them yet and doesn't have them appear anywhere in-game.

Putting the future of your people and your entire world at risk because your successor might not have Greymane as their last name is incredibly shallow and stupid of Genn. He's an idiot if he thinks that'll somehow fix anything.

[Oneirophobia]

Doesn't mean anything, really. You can call it lazy writing, but the Sunreavers are responsible .

If all of the Sunreavers are responsible for the actions of one, then all of the humans are responsible for Arthas, Kel'thuzad and the Scourge.

- - - Updated - - -

Sunreavers are Horde, they are not independent. They take responsibility for the actions of the Horde. Garithos wasn't new Alliance yet Blood Elves just love blaming him for all their woes.

The Horde betrayed the Kirin Tor, and Sunreavers are Horde. Therefore, the Sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor.

The Blood Elves were in the process of leaving the Horde. They would be Alliance if not for Jaina. She got in shit by Varian over what happened in Dalaran for a reason.


Arthas was human, Kel'thuzad was a human of the Alliance, therefore the humans are responsible for the Scourge.

- - - Updated - - -

That'll be Tess's choice when/if the time comes. If Genn treats his legacy as dead because his son is dead, while he still has a healthy daughter, that'd be douchy of him to Tess. He's still muscular and fit and a worgen and all that. If he really wanted, he could be a sleazebag and make another son behind Mia Greymane's back.

That's a dad being protective of his daughter living in another country. You'd do the same if you were an important figure with the power to keep her safe while she was studying abroad.

Please provide a canon source saying that Tess ran off. The last we heard from her before Legion was that she reached Teldrassil safely. Genn's wife also hasn't been mentioned. Neither have many other characters. That doesn't mean they're in hiding or sneaking around or dead. It means Blizzard doesn't have a use for them yet and doesn't have them appear anywhere in-game.

Putting the future of your people and your entire world at risk because your successor might not have Greymane as their last name is incredibly shallow and stupid of Genn. He's an idiot if he thinks that'll somehow fix anything.

Skimming over your post briefly, I was kind of under the impression Greymane was going to marry off Tess to Anduin to unite Gilneas and Stormwind.

And also because the Wrathrion x Anduin thing is getting too popular and Blizzard wants to quash that.

[JTHMRulez1]

We all know that Jaina snap it and joins the Legion. Let's stop acting like we don't know it.

[FelPlague]

That'll be Tess's choice when/if the time comes. If Genn treats his legacy as dead because his son is dead, while he still has a healthy daughter, that'd be douchy of him to Tess. He's still muscular and fit and a worgen and all that. If he really wanted, he could be a sleazebag and make another son behind Mia Greymane's back.

That's a dad being protective of his daughter living in another country. You'd do the same if you were an important figure with the power to keep her safe while she was studying abroad.

Please provide a canon source saying that Tess ran off. The last we heard from her before Legion was that she reached Teldrassil safely. Genn's wife also hasn't been mentioned. Neither have many other characters. That doesn't mean they're in hiding or sneaking around or dead. It means Blizzard doesn't have a use for them yet and doesn't have them appear anywhere in-game.

Putting the future of your people and your entire world at risk because your successor might not have Greymane as their last name is incredibly shallow and stupid of Genn. He's an idiot if he thinks that'll somehow fix anything.

again he hasent talked ot his daughter in along time
we have no proof in this world that females can keep their surname
greymane is old... i dont think he may be able to do that anymore...

again he doesent know if shes even alive anymore, as he tried to protect her but shes alittle more well "risky" and doesent like to play by daddies rules... so shes now a rogue

she becomes a member of the uncrowned, and avoids her father as she is now a assasin and should not be recongnized... it says on the wiki she joined the uncrowned, and they dont go around socializing....

also again its not just the surname, we have 2 things that still need to be defiend for why this war starts

1. something happens during the broken shore cinematic, that ends in variens death, jaina said it goes against what varien faught for, and the horde betrayed us, how they talk about it, it seems like we rush in to fight ,the horde of demons ,but sylvanas, not wanting to risk her currently very limited people, retreats, causing the allaince to lose, so this would put ALOT more hatred towards the horde from the allaince

2. cause of this anduin says along the lines of "i know you will take the chance if it comes to get revenge.... i do no want you to, but i see why you would..."

3. as i said, in the final battle, when we beat (if we beat) the legion, the factions will be hurt, only abit left on both sides to rebuild, if one faction can wipe out the other side during this panic... means less competition later... its like the zombie apocalypse in most games....

it would be better to all gather together and work together, but for YOU it would be better to kill them off and steal their stuff to benefit YOU more, not benefit everyone more

4. depends on what sylvanas is doing in stormheim, we dont know 100% what shes doing there.. .but she seems to be making a deal with helga (a minion of the old gods) to get more valkyr to raise more undead... and in azuna we find this information and send it to greymane and he is pissed that were fighting the legion, she betrays us, and is now working with the enemy... so at this point he attacks, and would be attacking for a mix of

Betryal
revenge
working with the enemy
to rid the orcs and undead, the 2 most probelmatic races of the horde, orcs for their bloodlust, undead for well... being undead... going against everything nature...

again we will need more quests/cinematics to see who is "really in the wrong" but right now it seems syvlanas did alot of bad shit... and greymane just acted on her looking like a enemy...

[Deleted]

no, the sunreavers didn't. garrosh's agents did.

dalaran were the ones that went and started slaughtering sunreaver civilians that had no idea why it was going on.

I thought Dalaran is considered a military target and the civilians chose to stay there despite knowing about the dangers?!