blood elves and dalaran in legion

[Deleted]

Do you have some source that Jaina did not got the approval? Because ingame, it looks like the Kirin Tor stand behind her in MoP and their are no problems while she leads the Kirin Tor into the Alliance, suggesting that she has indeed the Approval of the Council.

Also, the Traitors used Portals from Dalaran to steal the Bell and the Sunreavers have Guards. It was to assume that the Sunreavers are guilty and there were too dangerous to wait before arresting them. Two Times there were betrayal from the ranks of the Sunreavers, the first time it annihilated Theramore and killed the Leader of the Kirin Tor, a crime over which Aethas took the responsibility and the second time Garrosh, a genocidal Warcriminal, got the Divine Bell, a Artifact with which one can control the power of Sha. This guys were too fucking dangerous to be free and with they fighting against the Silver Covenant that was assigned with arresting them and Rommath attacking the City, it looked like they were indeed guilty.

[FelPlague]

She teleported there, yelled and killed Sunreaver guards the moment she saw them.
She went in there and murdered innocent people.


1. No, she doesn't. That is the entire point of a council.
2. The Sunreavers did not commit warcrimes.
Do you want to know something that IS a warcrimes?
Hint hint: It's collective punishment!
Source?
Source? That is now how a council works.
Being the president in a meeting doesn't give you more say than others.
Banning council members from the Kingdom without discussing it with the council isn't "right", that are plain and simple Kim-Jung-Ill actions.

So you're defending her by saying she only killed half of the innocent people? Okay, I guess?

The only one committing warcrimes is Jaina herself.
And fcs, even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing.
Thinking you're doing the right thing is never a good excuse.
And stop calling it her city. It wasn't her city.
She was a member of the council and so where the Sunreavers, it was just as much their city as hers.
And the moment someone pointed out that it was their city too, she started to use violence.

Innocent Sunreavers vs infected citizens that will turn into Scourge.
Seeing as you are a major lore nerd I challenge you to name the differences.

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Aethas was part of the council.
He clearly disagreed.

It's the "in Darnassus"-part that was breaking neutrality.

Hahaha.
Because trusting the Night Elves with gigantic power has never gone wrong before.
It would probably be safer in the hands of the Blood Elves.
Because the Alliance's warcry should be changed to: "Do as I say, not as I do!"

1. they drew weapons on her
2. she saw that the blood elves had betrayed her trust and needed to catch those responsible so she dident get time to talk to the council... yeah she should have but she couldent let those who did t get away, and was hoping to get the bell back to the alliance
3. they used her neutral city to steal from the alliance during a time of peace
4. looking for scource... but again think 1 spy can open a portal big enough for a bell to go through (most that large would need about 3-4 mages) and 1 spy to carry the bell!?
5.she had enough say to convert dalaran over to the alliance almost instantly as she says later talking to varien, so apparently the council either whent "yeah you just murdered a bunch of horde lets go ally" or she has ultimate say, as the council of 6 (we see this in legion) has been no more since arthas and when kaelthas/kelthuzad betrayed them
6.she killed those who drew weapons, or were casting spells, she teleported those away who were not threats to her, as i said when she enters the room there is 5 gaurds, 4 draw weapons, she kills them, the middle one does not, she lets them live
7.being the president talking to a bunch of advisers does give your priority
8.and he was in charge of the sunreavers, and to let a massive bell to be teleported through the city, and not do anything about it, it was his job to stop this but he did not
9.it was her city, it was appointed to her by antonidas and the old council, but was to be shared with all who seeked to learn magic, but she was higher in the leftover council (of her, a few advisers and the sunreavers)
10.she started using violence when they drew weapons on her
11.some sunreavers who charged to attack her when she started telporting them away. and some who hid and tried to stay safe versus undead who charged to attack arthas when he came in, and innocent humans who tried to hide and stay safe
12. lower ranking then jaina, from what we know of the council its her>aethis>her advisers
13. the horde during a time of peace broke into darnassus breaking treaty, and then using dalaran, a neutral city to transport the stolen goods, otherwise unable to transport, as they needed to use dalaran as a mid point, as the portal would have to be very powerful to teleport something so big all the way from darn to silvermoon, so they whent to dalaran first, kept it there for a few days, then new portal to silvermoon
14. dalaran and the allaince trusted it with the elves as they are very protective of relics, and also they dident trust garrosh, no one did so most of the factions were fine with the night elves holding it and did not intervene

please explain "Because trusting the Night Elves with gigantic power has never gone wrong before." i dont know exactly what your talking about... the well of eternity? cause that was the highborne.. not the night elves

[Friendlyimmolation]

they drew weapons on her

so self defense is bad?

. she saw that the blood elves had betrayed her trust and needed to catch those responsible so she dident get time to talk to the council... yeah she should have but she couldent let those who did t get away, and was hoping to get the bell back to the alliance

So its ok to let the overwhelming innocent majority suffer and get killed/ beaten because you got bit in the ass?

. they used her neutral city to steal from the alliance during a time of peace

holy fuck super hypocrisy, she used Dalaran to give the bell to the Alliance.

looking for scource... but again think 1 spy can open a portal big enough for a bell to go through (most that large would need about 3-4 mages) and 1 spy to carry the bell!?

Read warcrimes.

she had enough say to convert dalaran over to the alliance almost instantly as she says later talking to varien, so apparently the council either whent "yeah you just murdered a bunch of horde lets go ally" or she has ultimate say, as the council of 6 (we see this in legion) has been no more since arthas and when kaelthas/kelthuzad betrayed them

The council still exsisted, Jaina just had stormwind Soldiers teleported in to help her. She took over the city before any meeting.

being the president talking to a bunch of advisers does give your priority

Doesnt work like that, she lead meetings but everything still needed to be decided by vote.

and he was in charge of the sunreavers, and to let a massive bell to be teleported through the city, and not do anything about it, it was his job to stop this but he did not

If you bothered to do a little research you would know he was threatened his life and the lives of any blood elves the orcs would get their hands on if he said anything about it.

was her city, it was appointed to her by antonidas and the old council, but was to be shared with all who seeked to learn magic, but she was higher in the leftover council (of her, a few advisers and the sunreavers)

There still was a council, and she outright broke it's laws

.she started using violence when they drew weapons on her

again, pulling out your weapons because a batshit hypocrite is coming towards your leader is the average reaction of any guy. She would have been violent either way.

lower ranking then jaina, from what we know of the council its her>aethis>her advisers

not at all, All had equal say in the council, Jaina just called for the meetings, but didn't have any more power in voting than the others.

the horde during a time of peace broke into darnassus breaking treaty, and then using dalaran, a neutral city to transport the stolen goods, otherwise unable to transport, as they needed to use dalaran as a mid point, as the portal would have to be very powerful to teleport something

Dalaran already broke that treaty by having Jaina teleport the bell to Darnassus. Again, giant hypocrit to get mad when they do the same thing you did.

dalaran and the allaince trusted it with the elves as they are very protective of relics, and also they dident trust garrosh, no one did so most of the factions were fine with the night elves holding it and did not intervene

Surley I don't have to explain how fucking bad that reasoning is. Your enemies take a weapon, laughing that they have the bell, and you fucking expect them not to use it? The night elves have a terrible track record of things with power.

please explain "Because trusting the Night Elves with gigantic power has never gone wrong before." i dont know exactly what your talking about... the well of eternity? cause that was the highborne.. not the night elves

Night elves were highborne and vice versa. There is also the 2nd world tree, Dire maul, etc.

[Combatbutler]

1. they drew weapons on her

They stay prepared but do absolutely nothing even after Jaina kills some of them.

2. she saw that the blood elves had betrayed her trust and needed to catch those responsible so she dident get time to talk to the council... yeah she should have but she couldent let those who did t get away, and was hoping to get the bell back to the alliance

The purge was justified, but how she went about it was abyssal, for example using the silver covenant was a big mistake

3. they used her neutral city to steal from the alliance during a time of peace

She used Kirin tor resources to help the alliance against horde infiltrators. She was not neutral herself.

4. looking for scource... but again think 1 spy can open a portal big enough for a bell to go through (most that large would need about 3-4 mages) and 1 spy to carry the bell!?

The entire thing was orchestrated by garrosh to blame the sunreavers

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...rthemar-theron

Garrosh sabotaged his diplomatic efforts by organizing a heist in Darnassus and focusing blame on the blood elves

5.she had enough say to convert dalaran over to the alliance almost instantly as she says later talking to varien, so apparently the council either whent "yeah you just murdered a bunch of horde lets go ally" or she has ultimate say, as the council of 6 (we see this in legion) has been no more since arthas and when kaelthas/kelthuzad betrayed them

The council never ceased to exist and her voice was not more important that those of the others, they might have agreed after everything was said ad done but not immediately.

6.as i said when she enters the room there is 5 gaurds, 4 draw weapons, she kills them, the middle one does not, she lets them live

She killed all of the guards, despite them doing nothing.

7.being the president talking to a bunch of advisers does give your priority

She is not the boss of Dalaran, never was, she can't do anything without the other council members.

8.and he was in charge of the sunreavers, and to let a massive bell to be teleported through the city, and not do anything about it, it was his job to stop this but he did not

Yes Aethas was guilty of inaction, that doesn#t mean all Sunreavers are guilty

9.it was her city, it was appointed to her by antonidas and the old council, but was to be shared with all who seeked to learn magic, but she was higher in the leftover council (of her, a few advisers and the sunreavers)

It was never her city, Antonidas never appointed. Jaina was appointed the head member of the six in tides of war, ironically her biggest supporter was Aethas.

10.she started using violence when they drew weapons on her

She killed them, there was no reason to do that, at the time she didn't even know for certain who was responsible, she just acted on her emotions.

12. lower ranking then jaina, from what we know of the council its her>aethis>her advisers

Again Jaina has not more say in decisions that is not how Dalaran works, the council needs to reach consensus.

13. the horde during a time of peace broke into darnassus breaking treaty, and then using dalaran, a neutral city to transport the stolen goods, otherwise unable to transport, as they needed to use dalaran as a mid point, as the portal would have to be very powerful to teleport something so big all the way from darn to silvermoon, so they whent to dalaran first, kept it there for a few days, then new portal to silvermoon

Horde and Alliance were at all out war at the time, Jaina helped the Alliance keeping the bell from the horde, thus breaking neutrality herself.

14. dalaran and the allaince trusted it with the elves as they are very protective of relics, and also they dident trust garrosh, no one did so most of the factions were fine with the night elves holding it and did not intervene

The night elves merley took the bell and the shen'dralar were keeping watch over the bell, some of the most scumbag highborne to ever exist.

please explain "Because trusting the Night Elves with gigantic power has never gone wrong before." i dont know exactly what your talking about... the well of eternity? cause that was the highborne.. not the night elves

Highborne are night elves, they are the same race.

[Deleted]

The argument with the bell is dumb and you guys know that. The Alliance has already decided not to use the bell, Garrosh was already known as a genocidal maniac who misuses dangerous magical artifacts and the Kirin Tors job is to keep dangerous artifacts save.

[FelPlague]

They stay prepared but do absolutely nothing even after Jaina kills some of them.



The purge was justified, but how she went about it was abyssal, for example using the silver covenant was a big mistake



She used Kirin tor resources to help the alliance against horde infiltrators. She was not neutral herself.



The entire thing was orchestrated by garrosh to blame the sunreavers

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...rthemar-theron

Garrosh sabotaged his diplomatic efforts by organizing a heist in Darnassus and focusing blame on the blood elves



The council never ceased to exist and her voice was not more important that those of the others, they might have agreed after everything was said ad done but not immediately.



She killed all of the guards, despite them doing nothing.



She is not the boss of Dalaran, never was, she can't do anything without the other council members.


Yes Aethas was guilty of inaction, that doesn#t mean all Sunreavers are guilty


It was never her city, Antonidas never appointed. Jaina was appointed the head member of the six in tides of war, ironically her biggest supporter was Aethas.



She killed them, there was no reason to do that, at the time she didn't even know for certain who was responsible, she just acted on her emotions.


Again Jaina has not more say in decisions that is not how Dalaran works, the council needs to reach consensus.



Horde and Alliance were at all out war at the time, Jaina helped the Alliance keeping the bell from the horde, thus breaking neutrality herself.



The night elves merley took the bell and the shen'dralar were keeping watch over the bell, some of the most scumbag highborne to ever exist.



Highborne are night elves, they are the same race.

then so are blood elves, blood elves and night elves are the same race also i will do some morel ooking into this, through the book, both quest text on horde and ally, but no she only killed those who drew weapons

[Friendlyimmolation]

The argument with the bell is dumb and you guys know that. The Alliance has already decided not to use the bell, Garrosh was already known as a genocidal maniac who misuses dangerous magical artifacts and the Kirin Tors job is to keep dangerous artifacts save.

You're incredibly biased, and wouldn't see logic if you walked into it, this is known. But try to think anyways. The night elvs fucking taunt the Horde player because they got the bell first, the Horde would be idiots to not try to get the bell back, the Alliance gave you no inclination they didn't plan to use the bell. And the Kirin'Tor has been shit at alot of things they do, so that's another moot point.

[Combatbutler]

then so are blood elves, blood elves and night elves are the same race also i will do some morel ooking into this, through the book, both quest text on horde and ally,

Blood elves changed additionally due to being cut off from the well of eternity and the new climate, they are evolved highborne so to speak, the shendralar on the other hand are not and are still considered night elves.

Night elves and highborne are still the same race.

High/Blood elves, Naga and Nightborne are evolved highborne.

but no she only killed those who drew weapons

She killed all the guards, true they stood there prepared, but they didn't make a move even after she gunned a few of them down. She simply killed them in cold blood.

[Deleted]

The argument with the bell is dumb and you guys know that. The Alliance has already decided not to use the bell, Garrosh was already known as a genocidal maniac who misuses dangerous magical artifacts and the Kirin Tors job is to keep dangerous artifacts save.

If they would not want to use this dangerous artifact, their first action after receiving it should be its destruction. If the Alliance is not able to destroy it, it should be warded by a neutral faction. "We will keep it but don't use it" is not a trustworthy statement in a war if it's coming from one of the warrying factions.

[Kallisto]

The purge was justified, but how she went about it was abyssal, for example using the silver covenant was a big mistake

It was not justified. Saying it was justified is saying the police can for no reason come pull you out of a house you lived in forever for no reason. The only justified action from Jaina is to start a police style investigation to find that one culprit without using any Silver covenant who should have been forced to disband or leave Dalaran, since time and time again proved to be more extreme than the Sunreavers.

[Red808]

Was is justified? Perhaps... But what I think is so funny is Jaina would use the Kirin Tor to defend her city "Theramore" against the Horde but the second the Horde uses any aid from the Sunreavers (Which are active Horde members during a time of war) it justifies genocide and breaking the neutrality of Dalaran. Besides if a few Alliance Mages used the resources of Dalaran to steal something for example, would Jaina have purged the Alliance? I think not...

I blame poor writing honestly but Jaina is very hypocritical.

[Koryn123]

It was not justified. Saying it was justified is saying the police can for no reason come pull you out of a house you lived in forever for no reason. The only justified action from Jaina is to start a police style investigation to find that one culprit without using any Silver covenant who should have been forced to disband or leave Dalaran, since time and time again proved to be more extreme than the Sunreavers.

I think what he means is that the Jaina couldn't be certain that the Sunreavers didn't have more traitors among their ranks, and thus the Sunreavers no longer having power in Dalaran was necessary and justified.

Jaina just went about it the worst way possible, ensuring a bloodbath by using the Silver Covenant and Stormwind troops rather than the Kirin Tor or Dalaran's own police force to investigate and evict the Sunreavers peacefully.



Also, it should be noted that Jaina popped directly into the Violet Citadel WITH HER WATER ELEMENTAL USED SPECIFICALLY FOR COMBAT PURPOSES, so I would be surprised if the Sunreaver magi she murdered weren't wary when the incredibly biased and mentally and emotionally damaged and very unfit-to-lead Jaina Proudmoore teleported into the Violet Citadel with the thing she uses for fighting.

Also, Plaguestorm, the Divine Bell wasn't stored by Fanlyr in Dalaran for "several days." The player places a beacon on the Divine Bell, allowing Fanlyr to teleport it directly from the Cenarion Enclave in Darnassus to the portal network in Dalaran. Then after Aethas walks in on them, they teleport it directly from Dalaran's portal network to Silvermoon.

There was no "dragging" of the Bell required. It was a quick in and out, and the reason they had to go through Dalaran was because Jaina warded Darnassus against portals to and from anywhere except Dalaran. So they had to go to Dalaran then Silvermoon. That's why they couldn't just go directly to Silvermoon or Krasarang Wilds.

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Was is justified? Perhaps... But what I think is so funny is Jaina would use the Kirin Tor to defend her city "Theramore" against the Horde but the second the Horde uses any aid from the Sunreavers (Which are active Horde members during a time of war) it justifies genocide and breaking the neutrality of Dalaran. Besides if a few Alliance Mages used the resources of Dalaran to steal something for example, would Jaina have purged the Alliance? I think not...

I blame poor writing honestly but Jaina is very hypocritical.

She is very hypocritical and childish. To her, "neutrality" means "help the Alliance as much as possible, hiding behind the fact that I /call/ myself neutral even though I'm not, so I can claim innocence and play the victim card whenever anyone uses my own logic and tactics against me."

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You're incredibly biased, and wouldn't see logic if you walked into it, this is known. But try to think anyways. The night elvs fucking taunt the Horde player because they got the bell first, the Horde would be idiots to not try to get the bell back, the Alliance gave you no inclination they didn't plan to use the bell. And the Kirin'Tor has been shit at alot of things they do, so that's another moot point.

You calling someone else biased? Hahahahaha

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If they would not want to use this dangerous artifact, their first action after receiving it should be its destruction. If the Alliance is not able to destroy it, it should be warded by a neutral faction. "We will keep it but don't use it" is not a trustworthy statement in a war if it's coming from one of the warrying factions.

To be fair I think it was being studied.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You calling someone else biased? Hahahahaha

I wasn't aware calling out bullshit and half truths (if you could even call half of M-Ra's "lore" true) and using facts made me biased

To be fair I think it was being studied.

"Don't worry we are only studying it!"

Again a shit response and reason that they didn't even bother to convey to the Horde, not that the Horde would have believed them eitherway.

[Deleted]

I wasn't aware calling out bullshit and half truths (if you could even call half of M-Ra's "lore" true) and using facts made me biased

You are the most biased of us all. I admit that the Factions and Characters I like can also do evil or wrong stuff, you act like you believe that everything Sylvanas does is 100% morally correct and if she is the nicest and most innocent Character in the whole Franchise.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You are the most biased of us all. I admit that the Factions and Characters I like can also do evil or wrong stuff, you act like you believe that everything Sylvanas does is 100% morally correct and if she is the nicest and most innocent Character in the whole Franchise.

Sylvanas is a dick, doesn't change any of the facts about her though.

I admit that the Factions and Characters I like can also do evil or wrong stuff,

is that why you constantly are trying to praise the scarlet crusade and demonize Tirion and his son?

[Deleted]

is that why you constantly are trying to praise the scarlet crusade and demonize Tirion and his son?

Highlord Taelan Fordring says: Remove your disguise, lest you feel the bite of my blade when the fury has taken control.

I don't have to demonize Taelan Fordring, the game already did it.

And I don't praise the Scarlet Crusade because they are morally correct, I like them because they are not.

And you don't even want to admit that destroying a city with Weapons of mass-destruction, hunting down the survivers and slaughtering refugees to turn them into Undeads, a state that even Sylvanas describes as a curse of you click her, is a little bit morally questionable.

[Raetary]

m-ra + immolation fight?
GET THE POPCORN!

[Friendlyimmolation]

m-ra + immolation fight?
GET THE POPCORN!

Ive been working on a project for 18 hours now, no sleep so it will have to wait.

[Combatbutler]

Ive been working on a project for 18 hours now, no sleep so it will have to wait.

Sleep is for the weak !!!!!! ;P