Colorado school district to arm school guards with assault rifles

[Stone the Crow]

I'd rather we do something to fix the fundamentally broken US cultural system that spawns so much violence and anger. Nowhere else in the advanced western world has so much violence against others. Even countries in the west that have loose gun laws still don't see near this level killing and destruction. IMO its a direct result of the dog eat dog system the US has adopted, and you can see it reflected in this board also where so many americans don't give a damn about any of their other citizens.

I'm pretty sure a good (somewhere approaching 80-90% even) of it has to do with the romanticization (is that even a word?) Americans have of criminal culture.

[Annoying]

Rapid firing for long periods of time without burning yourself is an advantage.

Point of order, literally every rifle that's not made by some sort of unscrupulous company will have this feature. That's not an "advantage". That's like saying having a seat belt in a car is an "advantage" when they all pretty much have it. Using your mini-14 example, it has a handguard that prevents you from burning yourself. A barrel shroud just encircles the whole barrel (the top half is what "matters") and provides no noticeable advantage with regards to burning yourself. It's pretty much impossible to have a rifle without a handguard, unless it's mounted on something or designed for bipod use only.

[Tyrianth]

I have no problem with highly trained, armed school security officers. Providing them with Bushmasters does seems a bit excessive. I suppose having one locked in a vehicle that they could access to in an emergency isn't the end of the world.

What kind of society do you live where a school needs guards, let alone ARMED guards?

[Tijuana]

I'm pretty sure a good (somewhere approaching 80-90% even) of it has to do with the romanticization (is that even a word?) Americans have of criminal culture.

This American agrees with you. We had guns for ~200 years with no mass shooting problems.

[Zoldor]

I like that the consultant didn't necessarily agree with the idea and pointed out a pretty important thing. Using a rifle like this could easily cause as much problem as it could solve. Rifles like this are not the most optimal for closed quarters combat with a bunch of civilians in those closed quarters. Storage issues are a big cause as well. Locked in a car hasn't stopped a lot of people from stealing anything in a car. Also, being in the car seems a good distance from being useful in any situation. These are also retired or no longer police officers in this particular situation. At my school we had a legitimate police officer on duty there as a resource officer. But I think either way this is something that will never have an issue or reason for being. I think this fear mongering we have been doing about guns and shootings over the passed 10 years is getting ridiculous. Most places in the US are not nearly dangerous and we should stop making ourselves so scared over minimal probabilities. Then again it keeps the budgets big and lines the pockets of military contractors as once their military contract is up they can start selling to police and civilians all those wonderful weapons they create.

[TITAN308]

What kind of society do you live where a school needs guards, let alone ARMED guards?

One where we have a shitty mental health system and people who hate our way of life.

[Theinquisition]

I'd rather we do something to fix the fundamentally broken US cultural system that spawns so much violence and anger. Nowhere else in the advanced western world has so much violence against others. Even countries in the west that have loose gun laws still don't see near this level killing and destruction. IMO its a direct result of the dog eat dog system the US has adopted, and you can see it reflected in this board also where so many americans don't give a damn about any of their other citizens.

I'll agree that we have a cultural problem of glorifyin crime, but I disagree in saying that Americans Don't care about our fellow citizens.

I think we do for the most part.

Many just get jaded or sick of the people who bitch about how everyone has more than them and blame everyone else for their problems

[Zoldor]

I'm pretty sure a good (somewhere approaching 80-90% even) of it has to do with the romanticization (is that even a word?) Americans have of criminal culture.

I agree with this and it isn't just criminal culture, but our serious fascination with violence. Even on TV everything shown seems to be resolved with violence. That some how a physical fight will resolve an issue, when most of the time it just escalates the issue to more violence. We've normalized violence, but live in utter fear of sex and the human body. It's pretty impressive that we've made the idea of killing each other so normal, but the idea of boobs or dicks some kind of taboo thing to be vilified.

[Berengil]

One where we have a shitty mental health system and people who hate our way of life.

Well at least we can appear to agree that increasing mental health care capacity is a good thing.

I would also add far more stringent means of keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. One part of which would be placing strict requirements on gun owners ( to secure their weapons) when a mentally ill person shares the same home. Such as the Sandy Hook killer.

[TITAN308]

Well at least we can appear to agree that increasing mental health care capacity is a good thing.

I would also add far more stringent means of keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. One part of which would be placing strict requirements on gun owners ( to secure their weapons) when a mentally ill person shares the same home. Such as the Sandy Hook killer.

I don't personally have a problem with this one particular measure of gun control. However I am not sure how to enforce it nor how it would realistically stop a crazy person should others in the home choose to ignore such court mandated orders.

I mean really, if someone doesn't secure their weapons with a known crazy person in the home. Well a shitty gun owner is a shitty gun owner not sure if a law is going to alleviate the situation.

[alexw]

I'm pretty sure a good (somewhere approaching 80-90% even) of it has to do with the romanticization (is that even a word?) Americans have of criminal culture.

Lol no. That is total bunk. People don't steal, murder, and sell drugs because they think its romantic. They do it to enrich themselves and because they don't give a damn about the harm they cause. Point 1) relates to the high levels of inequality to the US has where its hard to get ahead if you are poor (extremely low social mobility). Point 2) relates to the dog eat dog culture where no-one gives a damn about anyone else.

[BuckSparkles]

I'll agree that we have a cultural problem of glorifyin crime, but I disagree in saying that Americans Don't care about our fellow citizens.

I think we do for the most part.

Many just get jaded or sick of the people who bitch about how everyone has more than them and blame everyone else for their problems

*Raises hand*

I am very, very sick of that.

[Berengil]

I don't personally have a problem with this one particular measure of gun control. However I am not sure how to enforce it nor how it would realistically stop a crazy person should others in the home choose to ignore such court mandated orders.

Well it wouldn't stop them if the others in the home chose to ignore the law. But they would face criminal penalties for doing so. if they survived the incident of course. Unlike the Sandy Hook killer's mother.

[Ripster42]

Do a lot of schools in the US have security staff, or is it just ones in dodgy areas?

Most do. Not all of them are very serious though. The one I had when I was in high school just wrote people up for smoking on school property or broke up fights.

[alexw]

I'll agree that we have a cultural problem of glorifyin crime, but I disagree in saying that Americans Don't care about our fellow citizens.

I think we do for the most part.

Many just get jaded or sick of the people who bitch about how everyone has more than them and blame everyone else for their problems

Yeah....no. Just look at the posts on this board about things like raising the minimum wage where you have comments that they should get a better job, or that they are just lazy, and so on. Or at all the continual race baiting threads. Heck, you have the leading republican candidate doing similar pretending he does not know who the ex-leader of the KKK was, or posting false crime statistics that smear blacks. Its clear that a hell of a lot of Amercians don't give a damn about wider society.

[Zoldor]

I don't personally have a problem with this one particular measure of gun control. However I am not sure how to enforce it nor how it would realistically stop a crazy person should others in the home choose to ignore such court mandated orders.

I mean really, if someone doesn't secure their weapons with a known crazy person in the home. Well a shitty gun owner is a shitty gun owner not sure if a law is going to alleviate the situation.

Simple, make the weapon owner responsible for the crime caused for failure to secure the weapon and allowing the mentally ill person access to it. Yes, it makes it harder on some owners, but until we get some ownership in these cases we are left out on a limb. I think it should be a criminal violation, but most folks are going to disagree. But if your kid mentally ill or not takes your gun and kills people, you've failed pretty heavily as a parent and as a gun owner. You failed to instill the value of human life, the basic rules of firearm operation and you couldn't be bothered to own a safe and not have your obviously mentally disturbed kid know the combination. That is on you and others die because of it. We hold people responsible for selling booze to intoxicated people, we should hold weapon owners responsible for getting guns in the hands of people who don't have the capacity for the value of human life.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol no. That is total bunk. People don't steal, murder, and sell drugs because they think its romantic. They do it to enrich themselves and because they don't give a damn about the harm they cause. Point 1) relates to the high levels of inequality to the US has where its hard to get ahead if you are poor (extremely low social mobility). Point 2) relates to the dog eat dog culture where no-one gives a damn about anyone else.

He's using romanticize in the same sense as glorification. You numb the senses and show criminal people living this high life and it appears to be a means to the ends you are talking about. They go hand in hand actually. We make crime and violence look cool and sexy when it really isn't. Watch a real fight, looks nothing like TV, no one is smooth as Nero in Matrix, it is usually two oafs swinging relentlessly at each other until someone connects with a jaw.

[alexw]

*Raises hand*

I am very, very sick of that.

You might not like it but it is an irrefutable fact that the high levels of inequality the USA has is a very big factor in causing the high levels of crime the US has. The evidence on this is exceedingly clear.

[TITAN308]

Well it wouldn't stop them if the others in the home chose to ignore the law. But they would face criminal penalties for doing so. if they survived the incident of course. Unlike the Sandy Hook killer's mother.

I'm pretty sure Adam Lanza's mother paid the ultimate price last I recall for her poor choices.

[triplesdsu]

Locked in patrol cars?

- Risk of break-in and theft of a very dangerous weapon
- Not practical in the case of a mass shooting

This is silly. And dangerous.

That's pretty standard for cops in america to keep their rifles/shotguns in the vehicle if needed. YOu're not going to want to walk around with long guns. Usually there is a secondary lock inside the vehicle containing the weapons. As most people tend to be relatively close to their car, responding to their vehicle in case of a mass shooting is going to be far more efficient than simply calling 911/dispatch and waiting for someone to get a weapon and then respond to your location.

[Stone the Crow]

Lol no. That is total bunk. People don't steal, murder, and sell drugs because they think its romantic. They do it to enrich themselves and because they don't give a damn about the harm they cause. Point 1) relates to the high levels of inequality to the US has where its hard to get ahead if you are poor (extremely low social mobility). Point 2) relates to the dog eat dog culture where no-one gives a damn about anyone else.

How's that world of delusion you're living in? I hear the weather is fantastic.