Remove the group finder tool

[Lilija]

@dexodar Out of pure curiocity, how old were you when you started playing WoW?

[Jibjub]

The best we can hope for is pristine servers ... I think we'll hear something about this BlizzCon. I would go as far to say that we will see progression servers that might work like Diablo season (just last longer), but that's probably wishful thinking!

[Ratyrel]

Spamming chat used to be so fun. Yay.

[Lilija]

Did you actually do dungeons in vanilla? Because that's not how it was.

That was my experience whenever I've done pug dungeons. That's why I started avoiding pugging till Wrath. Pugging in Vanilla was terribad, that's why I've done dungeons with guild only as soon as I had a raiding guild. In a casual guild there was always a problem with not enough tanks and healers and people logging less and less.

And someone that knew they had to leave would not join a group, because it would be a waste of their time -- but of course life happens and once in a while you're forced to leave, but it was rare.

Actually, people often didn't know how long the dungeon run will take. Ever done BRF? That was basicly a whole day challenge since hardly any pug could stay for the whole run.

[Deleted]

That was my experience whenever I've done pug dungeons. That's why I started avoiding pugging till Wrath. Pugging in Vanilla was terribad, that's why I've done dungeons with guild only as soon as I had a raiding guild. In a casual guild there was always a problem with not enough tanks and healers and people logging less and less.

Actually, people often didn't know how long the dungeon run will take. Ever done BRF? That was basicly a whole day challenge since hardly any pug could stay for the whole run.

You've been clearly playing on some alternate reality server. With BRD in particular you always specified the type of run and people would be fully aware how long it was expected to take depending on the run.

[Airwaves]

No thanks. Been stuck in a city spamming for a healer or a tank was not fun at all.

[denzildk]

But how could casual bob beat the WoD heroics without the lfd buff ?

Casual Bob can't beat silver prooving grounds, as long as they keep mythic dungions, normal+ raids, rbg's and rated arenas non-queueable i'm fine with it, easy stuff for casual Bob and hardcore stuff for people who want's to be social in some way. the custum group creater/finder tool could be fixed for more socializing but that's minor.

[Deleted]

You can't make this game more sociable it's down to the players for talking to you and being sociable. If I don't want to talk to you in a 5 man dungeon then I will say nothing a lot of players say nothing in 5 man because they don't want to talk to you.

You can't make people more sociable removing things like group finder is stupid it is a tool to allow people to play the game they want. Spamming chat is not fun and its a waste of time, the amount of time you used to spend spamming chat for a tank or healer was insane sometimes you could have even run the whole raid in the time it took you to find a healer.

[Deleted]

No thanks. Been stuck in a city spamming for a healer or a tank was not fun at all.

Still more fun than the brain dead LFG zerging.

[Azgraal]

I don't care if I have to be in a main city for 30 min to make a group.

You'll find the vast majority of players, the silent masses that don't flood the forums with their own divergent opinion, does care about it and certainly don't want that commodity taken out.

- - - Updated - - -

Still more fun than the brain dead LFG zerging.

How can you say that and mean it, that idling for 30mins is better than doing a dungeon in a rushing manner?

[Lilija]

You've been clearly playing on some alternate reality server. With BRD in particular you always specified the type of run and people would be fully aware how long it was expected to take depending on the run.

You do realize my experience varying from your doesn't deny it? I am giving you examples of fails of the old system. Real examples that happened to me... and given some comments on this forum not only to me. I trust it worked for you but for many others it made game close to uplayable - especially if they didn't have tons of free time.

What you fail to realize is that your system limits people in ways that aren't their fault. New system gives freedom to people on how to play the game - especially that you are still free to do dungeons in the old way.

P.S. I am still curious, how old were you when you started playing WoW. If you are shy, I'll go first: I was 23.

[Airwaves]

How can you say that and mean it, that idling for 30mins is better than doing a dungeon in a rushing manner?

Because.

1. He never played before LFG was a thing there for has no idea how bad it was.

2. He clearly forgets what it was really like and is blinded by nostalgia.

[Azgraal]

Because.

1. He never played before LFG was a thing there for has no idea how bad it was.

2. He clearly forgets what it was really like and is blinded by nostalgia.

I agree, you don't even have to go as far as vanilla. Back in early Wotlk on my old server we would spend an entire night trying to find people to do raids with, only to have some leave due to boredom when we were just about close to complete the group. Or even having to spam trade for a couple hours before we could get a dungeon group going. Mind me, this was a low pop realm, and even more so a 5/1 horde alliance ratio. then LFG came and we saw the difference.

Sure, waiting for hours in Dalaran instead of doing fast content (yes, I'm conting Occulus) was sooo much better. /s

[Deleted]

You do realize my experience varying from your doesn't deny it? I am giving you examples of fails of the old system.

Examples that make no sense, because they never happened to me and there were big disincentives to behave in that manner.

What you fail to realize is that your system limits people in ways that aren't their fault.

I don't get what you mean by "limits people". There were certain types of content and gameplay that had certain requirements. That doesn't "limit" you in any way, unless you falsely believe you have a god given, automatic right to every single thing in the game.

Does the current system "limit" players that are not in mythic guilds because they cannot get the highest ilvl gear? Should that "limitation" be removed by putting in a vendor where non-raiders could pick up the max ilvl gear for free?

New system gives freedom to people on how to play the game - especially that you are still free to do dungeons in the old way.

People really like to repeat this fallacy. Go ahead, go actually try to get a dungeon experience like that. It simply is not possible in practice, only in theory in your head. If it was possible, people would be playing like that on retail rather than seeking out private servers or complaining on forums.

P.S. I am still curious, how old were you when you started playing WoW. If you are shy, I'll go first: I was 23.

You can be curious all you want, but I don't see the relevance. I was a productive, tax-paying member of the society back then, not a teenager with no responsibilities, if that helps you.

[Joozt]

All I hear is people complaining that is takes to much time to make a group or that it use to take to much time to make a group.

As I said before they should merge more servers in order for this to work if the population is high you wouldnt spend hours finding the tank.

Also keep in mind that back that you only had 1 spec (duel spec was added in WOTLK) so everyone has 2 specs now (hell we could even get 3 specs if it was up to me)
So we are much more flexible and it shouldnt take that much time to find a tank or healer on your server these days!
Also we need to merge servers and get a healthy population on them again..

[Deleted]

it doesn't add more social behaviour as it's down to the players to be social in the first place.

[Joozt]

i see literary not one Aspect of trade chat spamming resulting in "more" social behavior then group tool.

Can someone explain it to me?

You played with players on your server which you would run into more often and also befriend for faster progress in the game while now you dont need that because yu can just join random groups for whatever so there is barly any incentive to befriend people.

Also the complete removal is not needed only removing the cross realm aspect is fine for me.

[Deleted]

yeah ofc this is baseline but i mean its not like pugging back then was different. The guys who you found in tradechat for Sholomance were random dudes as now, what is like the benefiting aspect when you remove lfg?


The only way you "socialize" back then was like, oh hey this is a good player i whipser to him so maybe we become pals. The same thing you can do now.

Pretty much all this. Like you could pug a group through chat right now and not a single person will talk to each other is this because of dungeon finder? Of course it's not but people seem to think that removing tools that make the game more accessible is the reason why.

I play on Draenor one of the highest pop servers in WoW and back in MOP when you still would pug to get into groups it would take ages to find a tank/healer.

[Lilija]

Examples that make no sense, because they never happened to me and there were big disincentives to behave in that manner.

Only because something didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen to other people. I am not denying your experience even tho I find it hard to believe given my experience. It would be kind if you didn't deny mine.

I don't get what you mean by "limits people". There were certain types of content and gameplay that had certain requirements. That doesn't "limit" you in any way, unless you falsely believe you have a god given, automatic right to every single thing in the game.

I'll give you the examples of limits that existed in Vanilla/TBC:
- time limitation (there was no content for you really if you could only play in 30min-1hr time intervals)
- community being crap: people had this mindset of what is "the only best way to do a dungeon" and if your class didn't fit into that mindset, tought luck (more in TBC than Vanilla but it started happening with Vanilla with "hybrids are healers" bs); if that imagination of which classes and specs are "valid" in the mind of the pug community was at least correct, it wouldn't be that much of a problem. But the case was it was all big pile of bullcrap. I've done all the heroics as a balance druid in TBC without any problem because all they required was: time and a brain.

I don't consider anything in Vanilla nor TBC to be especially challenging - for sure not 5man content which become obsolete the moment you entered a raid (with the exception of attunments which were a one time thing if you weren't a nice guild officer that helped everyone and their dog :P).

Does the current system "limit" players that are not in mythic guilds because they cannot get the highest ilvl gear? Should that "limitation" be removed by putting in a vendor where non-raiders could pick up the max ilvl gear for free?

The only limitation to joining a Mythic guild is if you have the will to raid. Sure, top guild have certain gear expectation but then again they will care for your experience and actual performance in raids. It isn't hard to join a Mythic guild. It's harder to stay in one but that's all on you. Besides, there is a huge variety of Mythic guilds - not all have top notch expectation. The majority just wants to kill bosses and they need 19 other people to do that.

People really like to repeat this fallacy. Go ahead, go actually try to get a dungeon experience like that. It simply is not possible in practice, only in theory in your head. If it was possible, people would be playing like that on retail rather than seeking out private servers or complaining on forums.

Please tell me, what exactly is stopping you from:
- making a group manually (I do it quite often)
- run to a dungeon and summon people (mythic dungeons, challenge modes are in fact like that)

Yes dear, people in current WoW run the dungeons the way it was done in Vanilla and TBC.

You can be curious all you want, but I don't see the relevance. I was a productive, tax-paying member of the society back then, not a teenager with no responsibilities, if that helps you.

That's answers what I wanted to know. I told you, I was just curious

[Deleted]

You played with players on your server which you would run into more often and also befriend for faster progress in the game while now you dont need that because yu can just join random groups for whatever so there is barly any incentive to befriend people.

Also the complete removal is not needed only removing the cross realm aspect is fine for me.

Speaking for myself here but seeing someone who I pugged with before doesn't make the raid or dungeon any more fun to play. Also I don't see any incentive to befriend that person after I might have been in a few runs with them because I either don't want to be there friend because they are a random person. Like if I want to play with people then I can play with my guild or IRL friends.