Offical response from blizzard on legacy servers.

[Froggy]

I will definitely resub if they make these "pristine" realms. I really hope they do a few more things with it though.

- Decrease XP gain from all sources
- Increase difficulty of all Mobs
- No flying mounts

Those are the main things I can think of.

[Dormie]

Translation: Too expensive, too,much work for almost no return.

Which is exactly what they said previously.

In short: No.

In short: Enjoy watching people keep asking for them and playing private realms.

[Simplex]

That's about as close to real talent trees as the "pristine" realms are to legacy ones.
And just like the evocation of pristine realms are a half-voiced admission that their new game design is shitty, their reintroduction of bastardized talent trees is an admission that their new talent design is shitty (though I recognize that at least, the new talent design came from a good idea).

Removal of boosting, cross-realm stuff including LFG and LFR are a popular demand on the forums but are generally met with just as strong opposition. Meaning there is space for variation. They are discussing these changes that would appease the first crowd while leaving the second alone. It's an admission they hear feedback from both sides. And if those realms weren't in the blue post, they'd have little to do with the actual legacy server discussion.

[Saucerian]

I will definitely resub if they make these "pristine" realms. I really hope they do a few more things with it though.

- Decrease XP gain from all sources
- Increase difficulty of all Mobs
- No flying mounts

Those are the main things I can think of.

In a nutshell, this. Append this to the "pristine" feature list and I'd be on board.

I would actually like flying to remain; been part of the game for a long time and there are so many cool flying mounts people have collected. But I could forego it as a compromise.

[Deleted]

Let's take all what these pristine realms are going to offer and see if anyone has asked for any of it. OK?

• Leveling acceleration: I've seen lots of threads where people say that leveling is too quick. People have different opinions of course but people have certainly complained about leveling out of zones before they are half done. As far as I know they haven't specifically said that quest and objective XP would be lowered but I certainly would like that as would others.
• Heirloom gear: People have certainly complained about being in groups with those who are fully decked out in heirloom gear. So yes, that's been asked for. Much slower leveling as well.
• Character transfers: Plenty of people think that character transfers destroyed early realm communities. No problem there. Requested many times.
• Character boosts: Boosts have become a fairly normal thing but there are still plenty of people who think they are pay-to-win and that they encourage bad play since learning a bit about your class as you level is non-existent. So yes, people have asked for boosts to be removed.
• WoW Token: Same as character boosts; lots of people think they are pay-to-win and would like to see them removed.
• Recruit-A-Friend bonus: Can't say that I've seen much of anyone complaining about RAF in the last few years. So removing that might qualify as something no one asked for.
• CRZ: Many people still go on about CRZ. So enough about that. There's a lot of people asking for that to be gone.
• Group Finder: Right up there with many as one of the primary reasons, if not the reason, why the game has lost a sense of community. Ridiculous to say that no one has asked for that. Realm reputation will matter again. No LFR.

Granted that the proposed realm type is not a vanilla realm but Blizzard never said it was in the first place. And it's clear that much of what they are removing is indeed stuff that people have wished was gone due to the effects that it's had on 'community'.

Fact is the game is better when there is a community, and while what they are proposing isn't what you want, if the things they have removed lead to a greater sense of being in a realm community that's going to be a win for the players there. Because it's just better to have that than not to have it at all.

So I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it simply because Blizzard didn't meet your demands. And again, a great deal of what they want to change are things that many have wanted changed. People should step back a bit and just look at the proposal on its own merits rather than continue to stew that their personal vision isn't to be realized. Especially since I'm guessing that you have asked for a lot of this yourself at one time or another.

It's a great idea. The only problem I have with it is the leveling experience on Live is a rollercoaster ride now as opposed to an open world.

We shall see!

[Saucerian]

It's a great idea. The only problem I have with it is the leveling experience on Live is a rollercoaster ride now as opposed to an open world.

We shall see!

Yeah, unfortunately the overuse of phasing is going to continue to prevent people from seeing each other, but only true Classic would remedy that, which they still can't feasibly do (or so they say).

Still, it is a good start, and hopefully the Classic crowd becomes willing to try to meet Blizz in the middle.

But making the leveling game challenging again is absolutely vital. It will make dungeon gear a significant advantage again, providing needed incentive for people to do the extra social legwork to form the groups and make the treks to the actual entrances.

[Vaelorian]

Let's take all what these pristine realms are going to offer and see if anyone has asked for any of it. OK?

• CRZ: Many people still go on about CRZ. So enough about that. There's a lot of people asking for that to be gone.
• Group Finder: Right up there with many as one of the primary reasons, if not the reason, why the game has lost a sense of community. Ridiculous to say that no one has asked for that. Realm reputation will matter again. No LFR.

People don't ask for the tool to be removed. They are too short sighted to think about what they really mean and aren't vocal enough to correct their mistake.
The LFX-tool is in fact FINE. The crossrealm features implemented aswell as the teleportation that comes with it right now is what is wrong with it.

No one wants to spam trade or be in a city to get people to come along. No one wants to port back to the capital for a replacement.

[RickJamesLich]

Let's take all what these pristine realms are going to offer and see if anyone has asked for any of it. OK?

• Leveling acceleration: I've seen lots of threads where people say that leveling is too quick. People have different opinions of course but people have certainly complained about leveling out of zones before they are half done. As far as I know they haven't specifically said that quest and objective XP would be lowered but I certainly would like that as would others.
• Heirloom gear: People have certainly complained about being in groups with those who are fully decked out in heirloom gear. So yes, that's been asked for. Much slower leveling as well.
• Character transfers: Plenty of people think that character transfers destroyed early realm communities. No problem there. Requested many times.
• Character boosts: Boosts have become a fairly normal thing but there are still plenty of people who think they are pay-to-win and that they encourage bad play since learning a bit about your class as you level is non-existent. So yes, people have asked for boosts to be removed.
• WoW Token: Same as character boosts; lots of people think they are pay-to-win and would like to see them removed.
• Recruit-A-Friend bonus: Can't say that I've seen much of anyone complaining about RAF in the last few years. So removing that might qualify as something no one asked for.
• CRZ: Many people still go on about CRZ. So enough about that. There's a lot of people asking for that to be gone.
• Group Finder: Right up there with many as one of the primary reasons, if not the reason, why the game has lost a sense of community. Ridiculous to say that no one has asked for that. Realm reputation will matter again. No LFR.

Granted that the proposed realm type is not a vanilla realm but Blizzard never said it was in the first place. And it's clear that much of what they are removing is indeed stuff that people have wished was gone due to the effects that it's had on 'community'.

Fact is the game is better when there is a community, and while what they are proposing isn't what you want, if the things they have removed lead to a greater sense of being in a realm community that's going to be a win for the players there. Because it's just better to have that than not to have it at all.

So I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it simply because Blizzard didn't meet your demands. And again, a great deal of what they want to change are things that many have wanted changed. People should step back a bit and just look at the proposal on its own merits rather than continue to stew that their personal vision isn't to be realized. Especially since I'm guessing that you have asked for a lot of this yourself at one time or another.

Seperately yes, but I can't really remember seeing many, if any threads pretty much asking for a combination of all of these things. I think at this point people have just accepted this stuff is going to be in the game and not removed. For example, how many threads have you seen where people ask for no CRZ, no recruit a freind, no character boost, or transfers all lumped up? The answer here is similar if blizzard's response to "no flying" was to give people more teleport spells lol. While the effect has *some* similarities, for all intents and purposes it's still miles off from what much of the community is asking for. On the nost forums for example, I've yet to see someone mention they'd return to the game if this stuff was removed, for example, yet I've seen hundreds of people state they would return if legacy servers were implemented.

Also when people ask for something like LFD and LFR to be removed, 98% of the time they aren't asking for it to be removed from one server, rather all of the game. And don't get me wrong, some of these changes would be good, but there are too many changes players would want to the point where blizzard would likely say this isn't feasible either.

[Marakesh]

I don't recall previous expansions getting rolled into the basic WoW game package, or being free to returning players, at least no until the next expansion released. I saw on the Nost forums that Blizz has put WoD as active on accounts that never bought it. Logged into my account and sure enough there it is. I wasn't motivated to try it out at $10, not sure how this helps. I doubt its a coincidence both the $10 drop and then free (apparently) happened right after the Nost fiasco.

[Donair]

Once again you do realise Blizzard is a business right? They are not ur buddy or ur best friend, They are a business and its profit first. There is no money in making a classic server because it will get used up in a month and empty in the 2nd month.

You tell us to get something in our head but yet ignore basic logic.

I agree. And everyone does realize how many hundreds of millions of dollars it is costing to develop Legion? They're blowing their OWN hard earned money on this larger than ever development staff with god knows how many man hours and payroll going through the roof. It's gotta be wreaking havoc on their bottom line.

All the 3d rendering and artwork, developing mechanics and implementing new models and character animations. This is a massive project requiring massive effort and it absolutely has to be putting a strain on Blizzard financially. And what do they get out of it? A few million box sales for Legion with half or more leaving after the first month or 2 after release?

Financially speaking from a business perspective, WoW of 2016 compared to say Hearthstone cannot possibly be more lucrative. Look at the minimum effort required for HS. It's a fucking CARD GAME. A 2d top down view card game. The biggest risk that game faces is exhausting the artists who have to create all the dumbass card pictures. And it is literally printing money for Blizzard. Look at all the damn updates it gets compared to WoW. Every other month I'm getting email alerts on my phone about their next exciting expansion set.

If we're all properly concerned about Blizzard's bottom line like we should be as responsible consumers (like Jtbrig7390 and Redroniksre adamantly are), we need to accept that WoW is simply too expensive to maintain. I mean, people are still slopping up swill from the last patch released in June of last fucking year! Happily chugging along beating their heads against the wall on the 50th difficulty level of HFC, pet battling, collecting xmog, derping around doing whatever and the game hasn't received an update in 10 months! Hell forget ever updating WoW ever again. It's doing absolutely nothing now and generating money! Why bother wasting man hours on content updates? They're not a charity after-all so why waste so many hundreds of millions of dollars on development on a new xpac when people are still paying for WoD and meanwhile right next door HS is printing money for them for minimal effort.

The smart businessman would say "Fuck WoW, too expensive to develop and there's a core of about 4-5 mil drones who will never unsub no matter what. Keep wracking in their money and farting out HS cards." Wouldn't you agree Jtbrig7390 and Redroniksre? Since we care so much about Blizzard's bottom line?

[Joozt]

Pristine Servers: Hell no
Legacy server: Hell yes!

Pristine is a retarded idea...

[Deleted]

-snip- Since we care so much about Blizzard's bottom line?

They didn't say we care about it, they said that Blizzard cares about it. And that the decision is theirs to make, not yours / ours.

[Deleted]

i'm sick of waiting for legacy servers now. i just want to play wow

[Akka]

People don't ask for the tool to be removed. They are too short sighted to think about what they really mean and aren't vocal enough to correct their mistake.
The LFX-tool is in fact FINE. The crossrealm features implemented aswell as the teleportation that comes with it right now is what is wrong with it.

No one wants to spam trade or be in a city to get people to come along. No one wants to port back to the capital for a replacement.

The tool to build groups they added in WoD is fine (don't remember how they call it, the thing where you look what groups/raids are looking for more, and you can join or not), and is about the only good thing WoD added. It should be expanded (by showing WHO is already in the group for example), but it's a good tool.

The AUTOMATED grouping is an abomination that should never have appeared to begin with. Automation has no place in a social game.

[MoanaLisa]

Seperately yes, but I can't really remember seeing many, if any threads pretty much asking for a combination of all of these things. I think at this point people have just accepted this stuff is going to be in the game and not removed. For example, how many threads have you seen where people ask for no CRZ, no recruit a freind, no character boost, or transfers all lumped up? The answer here is similar if blizzard's response to "no flying" was to give people more teleport spells lol. While the effect has *some* similarities, for all intents and purposes it's still miles off from what much of the community is asking for. On the nost forums for example, I've yet to see someone mention they'd return to the game if this stuff was removed, for example, yet I've seen hundreds of people state they would return if legacy servers were implemented.

Also when people ask for something like LFD and LFR to be removed, 98% of the time they aren't asking for it to be removed from one server, rather all of the game. And don't get me wrong, some of these changes would be good, but there are too many changes players would want to the point where blizzard would likely say this isn't feasible either.

I get what people are asking for with vanilla realms but an underlying subtext in many of them is "loss of community". If that's a primary root cause for the unhappiness then the pristine realm proposal is a idea and laboratory of sorts for resolving that. If you play exclusively on that realm for all effective purposes, LFD/LFR are removed from the game. CRZ is removed from the game. That by itself makes the idea worthwhile to try out.

If 'perfect' is the enemy of better then the desire for vanilla realms, which are unlikely in any case, are going to be the enemy of pristine realms (which many might think better). And that's the path to getting nothing at all except for retail.

If Brack or any of his minions happen to see this I would welcome a more complete explanation with some actual specifics and details of what they have in mind instead of a single sentence checking off some bullet points derived from a Powerpoint presentation. It would also be nice that if what Brack posted the other day means "No" for vanilla realms they just say that. All they do by talking around the main point instead of confronting it directly is extend the pain and increase the damage.

[Deficineiron]

I agree. And everyone does realize how many hundreds of millions of dollars it is costing to develop Legion? They're blowing their OWN hard earned money on this larger than ever development staff with god knows how many man hours and payroll going through the roof. It's gotta be wreaking havoc on their bottom line.

i am very interested. Please tell me how many hundreds of millions it is costings to develop legion.

[Akka]

All the 3d rendering and artwork, developing mechanics and implementing new models and character animations.

And the irony is, their new animations forcing players who don't want to, to use their shitty new models, is actually one more reason making some people decide to NOT play Legion. That's not even wasting money, that's spending money to actively sabotaging yourself ^^

If we're all properly concerned about Blizzard's bottom line like we should be as responsible consumers (like Jtbrig7390 and Redroniksre adamantly are), we need to accept that WoW is simply too expensive to maintain.

Well, it's not because it has a smaller benefit margin than low-cost with high-benefits other projects, that it means it's not still bringing benefits. There is whole entire MMO gaining money on a fraction of WoW playerbase and still producing more content. If WoW can't do this, it's because of mismanagement or incompetence, not because of some universal law.
Also WoW, even if it's declining, is still the most recognizable product. Hearthstone wouldn't have had such success (probably wouldn't even have been a success at all) if not for WoW making the trademark so massively popular/known. There is a definite risk in abandonning or breaking your "public face" (and it's probably the biggest reason, along with pride, for Blizzard refusing to start legacy servers).

[Kallisto]

i'm sick of waiting for legacy servers now. i just want to play wow

Then log into wow and stop crying about staying in Garrison when you do not have to. Many of us actually go out and do things.

[Akka]

Then log into wow and stop crying about staying in Garrison when you do not have to. Many of us actually go out and do things.

Well, maybe he isn't lobotomized enough to drone through WoD and want some actual content

In which case, the best way is simply to hop on a good Vanilla PS and enjoy WoW in its golden age while waiting for Blizz to get their head out of their ass

[Deficineiron]

I get what people are asking for with vanilla realms but an underlying subtext in many of them is "loss of community". If that's a primary root cause for the unhappiness then the pristine realm proposal is a idea and laboratory of sorts for resolving that. If you play exclusively on that realm for all effective purposes, LFD/LFR are removed from the game. CRZ is removed from the game. That by itself makes the idea worthwhile to try out.

If 'perfect' is the enemy of better then the desire for vanilla realms, which are unlikely in any case, are going to be the enemy of pristine realms (which many might think better). And that's the path to getting nothing at all except for retail.

If Brack or any of his minions happen to see this I would welcome a more complete explanation with some actual specifics and details of what they have in mind instead of a single sentence checking off some bullet points derived from a Powerpoint presentation. It would also be nice that if what Brack posted the other day means "No" for vanilla realms they just say that. All they do by talking around the main point is extend the pain and increase the damage.

beyond that, expansion on the meaning and definition of the key issue in 'We explored options for developing classic servers and none could be executed without great difficulty. " This is highly subjective and unspecific. does it mean

1) we really did manage to lose all useful secure-version backups. the horse learned to sing, the dog learned to eat code, etc.

2) great difficulty means we would be unable to do with within the budget and/or staffing parameters we would have to meet. What are those parameters (they won't say of course) and would they even be realistic for such a project or intentionally set to prevent it?

3) great difficulty as in extreme political difficulty internally.

4) great difficulty as in we could do it but it would need to be accessibilized in a way that would defeat the purpose of it (what I call the frankenstein option, or at least some parts of it)


5) some combination of the above

with regard to 2), it would be interesting to hear informed commentary from people with some knowledge of the project on how a micro-cap like Jagex was able to do OSRS. They total corporate annual revenue is only roughly a month of wow's current revenue.