Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[gcsmith]

Having a character that's committed to his ideals, even if they're sometimes difficult ones, is a good thing honestly.
Not every single character needs to be a warmonger.

Their's commited to ideals, and there's stupid. Jaina was commited to her ideals during Wrath Gate event when she was preventing faction fighting. Anduin however has personally been taken prisoner by the horde and dealt with random hordies first hand "Why don't we kill him and be done with it..."

[Imnick]

Their's commited to ideals, and there's stupid. Jaina was commited to her ideals during Wrath Gate event when she was preventing faction fighting. Anduin however has personally been taken prisoner by the horde and dealt with random hordies first hand "Why don't we kill him and be done with it..."

Yeah, and having a character committed to making peace even with people who have done him wrong, is still an admirable thing.
If everyone always tried to get revenge, it would be an impossible goal, so he tries to move above it.

Every single character being wrathful and holding grudges that prevent them from reconciling is bad writing.
That Anduin is willing to try and forgive people who did him wrong in the name of the greater good, and thus is not the same character with the same arc as multiple other Warcraft characters, is good writing. It even links in to his association with The Light, and as a possible future general of the Army of Light, which will be composed of both Alliance and Horde working together, rather than trying to kill each other over past slights.


It is an established fact of the universe that neither the Alliance nor Horde are perfectly good, nor irredeemably evil, because they are both player factions and we are not intended to be the villains.
So Anduin holding out that even after they have done wrong to him, the Horde could still become their friends, is clearly not incorrect. Especially because he has literally been given visions of the future in which that is true.

[gcsmith]

Yeah, and having a character committed to making peace even with people who have done him wrong, is still an admirable thing.
If everyone always tried to get revenge, it would be an impossible goal, so he tries to move above it.

Every single character being wrathful and holding grudges that prevent them from reconciling is bad writing.
That Anduin is willing to try and forgive people who did him wrong in the name of the greater good, and thus is not the same character with the same arc as multiple other Warcraft characters, is good writing. It even links in to his association with The Light, and as a possible future general of the Army of Light, which will be composed of both Alliance and Horde working together, rather than trying to kill each other over past slights.


It is an established fact of the universe that neither the Alliance nor Horde are perfectly good, nor irredeemably evil, because they are both player factions and we are not intended to be the villains.
So Anduin holding out that even after they have done wrong to him, the Horde could still become their friends, is clearly not incorrect. Especially because he has literally been given visions of the future in which that is true.

That's cool, the fact he understands their is niceness in the horde is one thing. But the reality is, horde has broken peace time and time again, most recently in Ashran, since he's going to be taking his fathers throne, he needs to learn how to deal with the situation in a way that protects his people and stop being so damn naive.

[Taeldorian]

I have the blue mop cm set for paladins, but the new order hall set is the golden version of it without the wings. Makes me happy that I main a pally.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That's cool, the fact he understands their is niceness in the horde is one thing. But the reality is, horde has broken peace time and time again, most recently in Ashran, since he's going to be taking his fathers throne, he needs to learn how to deal with the situation in a way that protects his people and stop being so damn naive.

He's allowed to be naive, it's part of his character. Also we know all the details of the whole Warcraft story. Anduin doesn't necessarily.

I have the blue mop cm set for paladins, but the new order hall set is the golden version of it without the wings. Makes me happy that I main a pally.

For now.

[Imnick]

That's cool, the fact he understands their is niceness in the horde is one thing. But the reality is, horde has broken peace time and time again, most recently in Ashran, since he's going to be taking his fathers throne, he needs to learn how to deal with the situation in a way that protects his people and stop being so damn naive.

Varian was also trying to make peace with the Horde.
I know people think it's cool to hate on idealistic characters, but Anduin hasn't yet done anything wrong as king. You're pre-judging based on nothing.

Besides the Alliance have also created conflict multiple times. Again, we're not talking about a case where he's baselessly trying to appeal to monsters... he's seeing the good in people who are only as flawed as his own people.
That's the point of Warcraft. Neither of the factions is the "bad guys".

[Taeldorian]

For now.

Well if ret sucks (seems like they're paying attention to feedback, helllooo divine purpose and fuck you greater blessings) I'll go prot, but this latest build is one step forward. They probably won't take equality out, but if they tweak holy wrath a bit like make it a 30 sec cd or castable while moving our 100 talent row will be as good as the other rows. All we need currently is to be tuned correctly and we'll be in a good place for pve. For pvp obviously mobility is still an issue, I want to see what they're going to do about that.

[FluFF]

So we are 4 months out till release, they said this will be one of the longest pre-patch times ever so pretty much certain it will be 4+ weeks, probably between 5 and 8 so that shaves off waiting to somewhere in July.

Surely PTR must be creeping up soon, maybe somewhere during the 2 weeks between OW open beta and release ? can't imagine PTR being up less then 4 weeks during a X.0 patch test. ( just wishful hoping cause I'm dying to try out a DH )

[Nihilan]

Any recent beta invite waves sent out?

I just noticed I had Legion Alpha in Battle.net client, don't know how long it's been there. I don't check that drop-down menu at all while I play only on EU servers.

Grats, you're in. They have been stealth inviting us all alpha long. I dont recall hearing a single tester who claims to have received a notification email.

People just need to check their server list from time to time. If you see alpha on there at the top, then youve been invited.

[emilylorange]

Grats, you're in. They have been stealth inviting us all alpha long. I dont recall hearing a single tester who claims to have received a notification email.

People just need to check their server list from time to time. If you see alpha on there at the top, then youve been invited.

I've seen a few people say they received the emails weeks after the launcher allowed them to join - always check your launcher!

[huth]

Having a character that's committed to his ideals, even if they're sometimes difficult ones, is a good thing honestly.
Not every single character needs to be a warmonger.

Him still believing in his ideals after all he's through makes him one of the mentally strongest character in the entire lore. And he's a priest...

He's also shown that he's not above using force if he thinks it is necessary. His idea of what constitutes "necessary" just differs from the shortsighted warmongers, both those in-universe as those on the forums.(Reference the Jade Forest Alliance questline. No, he's not going home, and you will agree with him, Dwarf.)

[TheWindWalker]

Besides the Alliance have also created conflict multiple times.

True. There were a few times in questing here and there as a mirror to what the Horde had been doing in other areas. In game, not in-Novel, the Alliance hasn't been "the bad guys" without there being a misunderstanding or a "tit for tat" since possibly Vanilla.

That's the point of Warcraft. Neither of the factions is the "bad guys".

That's not really true, unfortunately. The modern Horde under Garrosh had three leaders who would, and did, kill and torture anyone they wanted, whenever they wanted. The modern Alliance needs two books and a blue post before you can even get close to a "uh... they're the same really if you think about, right?"

If Blizzard wanted the Alliance to be "also the bad guys" canonically, Tyrande would have to go back to being who she was in WC3, the Dwarves would have to be far, far more violently xenophobic, and Varian would have to have his entire personally change during Mists retconned.

[Wootmonkey]

The Horde are the bad guys with some redeeming qualities.

Not sure why some people who play horde try to spin it otherwise.

[Imnick]

The Horde are the bad guys with some redeeming qualities.

Not sure why some people who play horde try to spin it otherwise.

I haven't played on the Horde since I was still deciding on a main in Vanilla.
Garrosh's administration is not the Horde administration, the Horde helped us get rid of Garrosh.

- - - Updated - - -

True. There were a few times in questing here and there as a mirror to what the Horde had been doing in other areas. In game, not in-Novel, the Alliance hasn't been "the bad guys" without there being a misunderstanding or a "tit for tat" since possibly Vanilla.

Jaina literally tried to destroy the whole of Orgrimmar with a tsunami, and is still the king of Stormwind's most trusted advisor.
The only current Horde leader who's a xenophobe is Sylvanas.

Baine, Vol'Jin, and Lor'Themar have all tried to personally sue for peace and even directly aided the Alliance in the past.
We wouldn't need three Alliance xenophobes to match the Horde's one.


Besides which, this isn't meant to be "which of these groups is more of a bad guy", an argument that can be re-argued forever because nobody is without bias in it, it's "which is the bad guy", the answer of which is still "neither of them".
Perhaps the Horde does have slightly more confused morals, but they're still clearly not the villains of the franchise and clearly would still be responsive to diplomatic efforts.

[Wootmonkey]

I haven't played on the Horde since I was still deciding on a main in Vanilla.
Garrosh's administration is not the Horde administration, the Horde helped us get rid of Garrosh.

- - - Updated - - -



Jaina literally tried to destroy the whole of Orgrimmar with a tsunami, and is still the king of Stormwind's most trusted advisor.

The forsaken and goblins are shady.

The fact is that outside the Tauren the Horde is rough around the edges and that is ok.

Its not like they are pure evil and need to be wiped out. I've played horde for most of my WoW time and some Alliance. The Horde is more bad than good, the Alliance is more good than bad. Neither side are perfect, neither side are villains.

[Imnick]

Its not like they are pure evil and need to be wiped out. I've played horde for most of my WoW time and some Alliance. The Horde is more bad than good, the Alliance is more good than bad. Neither side are perfect, neither side are villains.

Well I'm glad you can at least see that.
This is all that they need to be for Anduin to not be delusional, and for his character as "the one that tries to sue for peace, even when it's tough" to be a good one to have around.

Some people argue like every Alliance character who doesn't want the Horde to be exterminated is a bad character.

[Etselion]

Can i form a raid of dread lords to attack Orgrimmar?

Or all the fun its confined to my own capital?

[Wootmonkey]

Well I'm glad you can at least see that.
This is all that they need to be for Anduin to not be delusional, and for his character as "the one that tries to sue for peace, even when it's tough" to be a good one to have around.

Some people argue like every Alliance character who doesn't want the Horde to be exterminated is a bad character.

Ya Anduin is weak for wanting peace, but Jaina is crazy for wanting war.

I don't get it either, but whateva.

[Imnick]

Why is there no worgen set?

Worgen isn't a class.

[Gnarilex]

The paladin class hall set will look awesome with Ashbringer

i'm not a big fan of the paladin set. Would rather wear judgement with Ashbinger.