Russia's foreign minister warns Sweden off Nato

[Skroe]

Sweden and Finland are in the EU. Chances of Russia attacking EU are similar to winning the lotto 5 times in a row.

Just remember, NATO has "first look" rights for European defense under the Lisbon Treaty.

Sweden is basically protected, along with Finland.

[zealo]

whats the big advantage of an island compared to a base in germany/poland/latvia/estonia/lithuania?

The only access Russia have to the Baltic Sea at this point is near St. Petersburg in the east, and from Kaliningrad sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania, where the Russian Baltic fleet has its HQ.

You can probably imagine how they feel about having NATO setting up aviation and naval bases right in the middle of that. There is a lot of strategical value to that island if it comes to controlling the baltic in times of war.

[Deleted]

Just remember, NATO has "first look" rights for European defense under the Lisbon Treaty.

Sweden is basically protected, along with Finland.

Yeah but.... Protected against what?

[Kuntantee]

Bluff. Pure bluff.

[Deleted]

The only access Russia have to the Baltic Sea at this point is near St. Petersburg in the east, and from Kaliningrad sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania, where the Russian Baltic fleet has its HQ.

You can probably imagine how they feel about having Nato setting up aviation and naval bases right in the middle of that. There is a lot of strategical value to that island if it comes to controlling the baltic in times of war.

What times of war?

[Skroe]

Yeah but.... Protected against what?

All threats. First and foremost Russia.

Your recognition of this reality is not required.

[Deleted]

All threats. First and foremost Russia.

Your recognition of this reality is not required.

Reality? What reality? A reality where RUSSIA INVADES EU?!
Dat reality.

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You make me sick.

Strong man Gabriel would rather FIGHT TO THE DEATH in a 15 year long war. After all he does it everyday on call of duty. Its not THAT different isn't it?

[Skroe]

Reality? What reality? A reality where RUSSIA INVADES EU?!
Dat reality.

Yes. That reality. The only delusional one here is you Djalil. But then again, we're entering year two of your world view being comprehensively rejected.

I mean fundamentally your opinion on these issues does not matter. US and European defense spending is going up. NATO defenses against Russia are being redoubled. These are facts. They have happened. They are happening.

You're free to think whatever the hell you like. Your opinions are not policy.

[Deleted]

Sweden shouldn't kneel to anyone. Not kneeling to NATO doesn't mean kneeling to Russia and vice versa

Before Sweden were armed to the teeth, all men were basically conscripts, and the phonebook, did have first page like "all orders that armed resistance shall end is false" "if the government fall all military units will shall continue to fight autonomously"

Back in the old bad days Sweden could be neutral, who want to mess with Sweden, you need to use loots of nuclear weapons or need to pay a ridiculously high price in blood to conquer Sweden, better to let Sweden be.

But after the fall of USSR, the conscription stoped and large amounts of military material scrapped, that was no probelm Yeltsin wanted to be frend with Sweden.

Now then we have unpredictable Putin as neighbor, Sweden stand there with a small professional force and make a critical assessment about Swedens own ability to resist a invasion, then the last generations of conscripts is too old, hence the idea of joining NATO.

[Crispin]

I'd rather view Russia as a threat and act accordingly, than live in a "peace for our time" illusion.

[Deleted]

Yes. That reality. The only delusional one here is you Djalil. But then again, we're entering year two of your world view being comprehensively rejected.

I mean fundamentally your opinion on these issues does not matter. US and European defense spending is going up. NATO defenses against Russia are being redoubled. These are facts. They have happened. They are happening.

You're free to think whatever the hell you like. Your opinions are not policy.

Look how cute you are going all defensive.
What its been two years Russia has invaded the EU?
Reality check bro REALITY CHECK.

[Marcellus1986]

Look how cute you are going all defensive.
What its been two years Russia has invaded the EU?
Reality check bro REALITY CHECK.

Living in and hoping in the short term is the reality of a fool, but considering your posting history and general position on matters, this isn't surprising.

[Deleted]

Before Sweden were armed to the teeth, all men were basically conscripts, and the phonebook, did have first page like "all orders that armed resistance shall end is false" "if the government fall all military units will shall continue to fight autonomously"

Back in the old bad days Sweden could be neutral, who want to mess with Sweden, you need to use loots of nuclear weapons or need to pay a ridiculously high price in blood to conquer Sweden, better to let Sweden be.

But after the fall of USSR, the conscription stoped and large amounts of military material scrapped, that was no probelm Yeltsin wanted to be frend with Sweden.

Now then we have unpredictable Putin as neighbor, Sweden stand there with a small professional force and make a critical assessment about Swedens own ability to resist a invasion, then the last generations of conscripts is too old, hence the idea of joining NATO.

I understand what you're saying. European security doesn't come in the form of bombs though. We have this thing called trading. European and Russian economy are already intertwined in such a way that one attacking the other would have catastrophic economic consequences. Banks collapsing and all that jazz. This is how we do security. Long term security that is.

There is no way in earth putin or anyone is going to invade the EU and be responsible for the collapse of the economy

[Skroe]

Look how cute you are going all defensive.
What its been two years Russia has invaded the EU?
Reality check bro REALITY CHECK.

What's to be defensive about Djalil? I've won. My position reflects policy. Yours does not.

Russia threatened Europe. Rather than make conciliatory gestures, NATO mobilized and adopted a defensive posture that directly counters Russia's attempts at undermining its security. Two years ago, that is exactly what I wanted.

How have the last two years worked out for you? With the above happening. With NATO expanding. With Defense spending increasing. With sectoral sanctions still in place.

I have nothing to be defensive about. Your beliefs have enjoyed two years of consistent rejection and failures while mine has seen two years or becoming policy.

[Deleted]

Living in and hoping in the short term is the reality of a fool, but considering your posting history and general position on matters, this isn't surprising.

Funny you talk about short term when your long term solution to a threat that doesn't exist is increasing tensions and subsequently damaging long term security? Want long term security? Look what Italy Germany France and Benelux did a few years after bombing each other. This is political will to achieve peace.

[Crispin]

I somehow don't see trade beeing Putin's number 1 priority, if it were he probably would be busy doing whatever he can to get rid of sanctions, yet he is not.

[Deleted]

What's to be defensive about Djalil? I've won. My position reflects policy. Yours does not.

Russia threatened Europe. Rather than make conciliatory gestures, NATO mobilized and adopted a defensive posture that directly counters Russia's attempts at undermining its security. Two years ago, that is exactly what I wanted.

How have the last two years worked out for you? With the above happening. With NATO expanding. With Defense spending increasing. With sectoral sanctions still in place.

I have nothing to be defensive about. Your beliefs have enjoyed two years of consistent rejection and failures while mine has seen two years or becoming policy.

250 k to write stuff like this? We've the same age skroe. Start acting like the adult you are.

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I somehow don't see trade beeing Putin's number 1 priority, if it were he probably would be busy doing whatever he can to get rid of sanctions, yet he is not.

It is. Obviously. Its everyone's priority.

[zealo]

What times of war?

Obviously its a hypothetical, but I don't think the Russians are trying to intimidate us away from NATO because they want to be friends with the Nordic and Baltic countries and respect the sovereignty of the region. Quite the opposite in fact.

[Deleted]

Crispin keep in mind trading has increased massively between Russia and EU under Putin.

[Deleted]

Only takes 1 Russian nuke to defeat Sweden. And since it's such a short distance, there is no stopping it either.

If Russia wants to be annihilated, they'll surely do that.