Mythic Mannoroth - Looking for Input

[Scyclone]

Hello Everyone,

We've been sort of smashing our face against the Mannoroth wall for a little while and although we are making some progress, there are some things that I feel that we can really shore up to try and get this guy down.

Here are some logs from our most recent attempts (with our best attempts being at 40% and several others in the 40-50% range).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NpwJ8XZ7QxrAcjGv

If possible, could I get some input regarding our damage specifically and how we are handling things? I feel like our damage output is not as great as it needs to be (save for our awesome rogues) and have been trying to find ways to optimize it properly.

Currently, we are using the box soak strategy for Wraths. While this is a bit new for us to get some practice on, we seemed to have gotten better at it throughout the night (despite me blinking into my suicide once there lol).

Any input or suggestions would be greatly beneficial. We tend to get a 3rd doomlord right around the transition of phases. Sometimes if all goes well, we have the ring blow up and kill him before he can cast doom on us.

Thanks,
Azure

[Deleted]

I'm not sure if what you're doing there is planned or a known mistake on the last few tries but you might not have understood the box strategy properly. The 1st soaker is better to be someone that has the immunity up already while he walks in and keep a mage as a third so that he can block the potential shadowforce. Shortly after that shadowforce/third soaker I found it a good idea to just abandon the soaking and spread the remaining debuff to the raid since it's more convenient to have the raid together than avoiding some extra moderate damage. Also the switching of soakers must be seamless, not leaving 2 second gaps. It does not soak as fast and it may kill a soaker.

[Scyclone]

I'm not sure if what you're doing there is planned or a known mistake on the last few tries but you might not have understood the box strategy properly. The 1st soaker is better to be someone that has the immunity up already while he walks in and keep a mage as a third so that he can block the potential shadowforce. Shortly after that shadowforce/third soaker I found it a good idea to just abandon the soaking and spread the remaining debuff to the raid since it's more convenient to have the raid together than avoiding some extra moderate damage. Also the switching of soakers must be seamless, not leaving 2 second gaps. It does not soak as fast and it may kill a soaker.

Regarding soaking (mostly since we only have 1 hunter generally), we have hunter first, then myself (mage), then another mage, with paladin/rogues as backups. So what we should be doing is have hunter in place, then before their second deterrence fades, I blink in and position on them, iceblock as the hunter runs off. Then when my IB is about to wear off, the other mage blinks in, IBs on me, then I invis/blink the hell out of there? -- Oh man... I can foresee some deaths there lol.

[Deja Thoris]

You need to make improvements in every aspect of this fight to be honest.

Damage taken:
Fel imposion - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=181255
Fel hellstrom https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=181566
Some people just take a TON of unneeded damage - this stuff isn't hard to reduce.

Damage done
For starters you have people playing completely suboptimal specs. What the hell are people doing playing frost as dks and mages in a mythic guild thats 11 bosses in? Why do you have a destro lock?
Your shadow priest needs to fix his rotation. Check the SP guide for that. He also needs to fire off cascade more. Use it on the infernals since imps shouldn't be a problem.

I get the impression that if people just went and read some class guides you'd beat the 3rd doomlord, that should be your aim for p2.

[Deleted]

We generally do it with pala or hunter->hunter->mage (the last is me). In fact, I figured that it can even be done with hunter or pala and mage only because I could block when the 1st ends and I would still usually have block up when shadowforce comes, which is an important bit of the strategy, to block the shadowforce of the soaker. I ended up being second or third even when I have wrath myself, but I wouldn't suggest it without being too careful.

It's generally not as hard as it seems, because if you actually survive at least with 2 soakers doing the soaking properly, the rest can normally just spread the debuff to the raid since it's not really enormous damage if they are moving around a lot, relatively healable easily.

The only time I noticed a serious issue with damage of that sort in that fight was when we tried 3 healers but I don't think that boss requires it since it only makes the very last phase faster (in a meaningful manner) while even that phase could use more healing.

[Scyclone]

You need to make improvements in every aspect of this fight to be honest.

Damage taken:
Fel imposion - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=181255
Fel hellstrom https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=181566
Some people just take a TON of unneeded damage - this stuff isn't hard to reduce.

Damage done
For starters you have people playing completely suboptimal specs. What the hell are people doing playing frost as dks and mages in a mythic guild thats 11 bosses in? Why do you have a destro lock?
Your shadow priest needs to fix his rotation. Check the SP guide for that. He also needs to fire off cascade more. Use it on the infernals since imps shouldn't be a problem.

I get the impression that if people just went and read some class guides you'd beat the 3rd doomlord, that should be your aim for p2.

Not offering much in the way of information here besides "lol you suck, go read guides", no offense. As for frost vs arcane, played both of them if you check the fights. Arcane does quite well, but the RNG factor really bites on some parts (certainly when things are not dying as quick as they should be). Frost at the moment was proving more reliable on an attempt by attempt basis, ultimately arcane would be better, but it is what it is there.

As for the destruction lock, destruction actually does quite well on mannoroth. Not as well as demonology mind you, but it does place #3 out of all specs/classes on manny overall damage at the 75th, 90th, 95th and 99th intervals (probably more, didn't check beyond those). How much of that is class/raid composition, and how much of that is different assignments in things. Absolute optimization doesn't really occur for groups that don't have the most options when it comes to raid class comp/distributions (hince our 1 hunter issue).

Theres things that can be easily changed and things that can't. I'm less concerned about being Method, and more concerned about what are we doing wrong in terms of strategy, cooldown usage, dps assignments and other factors that are much more manageable from both a raider and a person aspect. I can't, for example, go to a boomkin whos been raiding with the guild since before I even got there and say "Go feral or we put in this applicant instead", just doesn't work that way.

But yes, I see your point on the damage taken. I am quite guilty of it as well, looking over some of that stuff. I wonder if part of it is because we are all conglomerated within Mannoroth's red circle for the most part to maximize imp grips and such.

- - - Updated - - -

We generally do it with pala or hunter->hunter->mage (the last is me). In fact, I figured that it can even be done with hunter or pala and mage only because I could block when the 1st ends and I would still usually have block up when shadowforce comes, which is an important bit of the strategy, to block the shadowforce of the soaker. I ended up being second or third even when I have wrath myself, but I wouldn't suggest it without being too careful.

It's generally not as hard as it seems, because if you actually survive at least with 2 soakers doing the soaking properly, the rest can normally just spread the debuff to the raid since it's not really enormous damage if they are moving around a lot, relatively healable easily.

The only time I noticed a serious issue with damage of that sort in that fight was when we tried 3 healers but I don't think that boss requires it since it only makes the very last phase faster (in a meaningful manner) while even that phase could use more healing.

Interesting, we can give that a shot with Hunter, Paladin, Mage. Using another paladin as a back up for Hunter/Pally, and the other mage as a backup for myself. So after we've soaked for all 3, do we just have the wrathed characters run back into the thick of things?

[Deleted]

Yeah shortly after the ice block is down we just spread them around. It's very healable. Most will have only max 5 or 10 stacks and even in some bad cases of some high stacks moving a bit around will make it healable.

[Deja Thoris]

Not offering much in the way of information here besides "lol you suck, go read guides", no offense.

You aren't wrong but when people are parsing below 10% for their spec for 40 pulls I'm not going to analyse whats wrong, I'll point to a guide. I'm happy to dissect logs to point out improvement places, I'm not happy to do it to teach people basic rotations and whether you want to hear it or not, its what some people need. I mean one pull I checked, a dps potted 15 seconds in when the boss spawned.

With regards to the "dps" in an attempt to be constructive you need to divvy up "jobs" to people so you can maximise boss damage and ideally push before a 3rd doomlord (or time the ring to kill it). I'd personally have the warrior and locks nuke the imps and get the boomies / mages / hunter/ SP to give love to the infernals. They are low prio most groups don't focus them much at all but our group likes to kill them before they relocate.

As to the mages, I'd be annoyed id ours played frost for the fight. It's hands down the worst spec. The only reason its showing decent numbers for you is that some of your mages are using the doom nova and the iskar trinket so its add padding. Boss damage kills the boss, not padding on adds that a bladestorm or chaos wave is going to kill anyway. If you struggle with imps just have them be arcane with supernova imo.

Finally, if your mages are going to soak the wraths theres a glyph that makes you immune to spell damage for 3 seconds after iceblock ends. Ours greater invis in, block and blink out.

[Scyclone]

You aren't wrong but when people are parsing below 10% for their spec for 40 pulls I'm not going to analyse whats wrong, I'll point to a guide. I'm happy to dissect logs to point out improvement places, I'm not happy to do it to teach people basic rotations and whether you want to hear it or not, its what some people need. I mean one pull I checked, a dps potted 15 seconds in when the boss spawned.

With regards to the "dps" in an attempt to be constructive you need to divvy up "jobs" to people so you can maximise boss damage and ideally push before a 3rd doomlord (or time the ring to kill it). I'd personally have the warrior and locks nuke the imps and get the boomies / mages / hunter/ SP to give love to the infernals. They are low prio most groups don't focus them much at all but our group likes to kill them before they relocate.

As to the mages, I'd be annoyed id ours played frost for the fight. It's hands down the worst spec. The only reason its showing decent numbers for you is that some of your mages are using the doom nova and the iskar trinket so its add padding. Boss damage kills the boss, not padding on adds that a bladestorm or chaos wave is going to kill anyway. If you struggle with imps just have them be arcane with supernova imo.

Finally, if your mages are going to soak the wraths theres a glyph that makes you immune to spell damage for 3 seconds after iceblock ends. Ours greater invis in, block and blink out.

Ok, I feel stupid. I completely skipped over the second part of that glyph, regarding the immunity. Consider that one fixed lol. I saw the frost nova and was like "Thats no use to us" didn't even notice the part after it.

I don't disagree that people need to step things up, but it is essentially like trying to run up an escalator going in the opposite direction. Nearly everything you could gain, you'll lose, despite the effort put in. The thing is, I can slam their skull through guides all day, but unless I know what they are actually screwing up on, I can't bitch at them to correct it. We can't just up and kick half the guild out of the raid either, expecting some magically skilled people to arrive either... There's over 30 mythic guilds on our server, we are rather surprised we are placed as well as we all, all things considered for a guild that only raids 2 days a week for 3 hours.

Regarding the potting, are you meaning someone popping a pot during Mannoroths spawn, or are you meaning like 15 seconds after everyones been damaging away on Mannoroth (meaning they most likely missed the ring as well)? - Things like this, I can fix and correct

Currently, we are assigning jobs to different people, though we do on the odd occasion have a bit of issues with imps not dying quick enough. Infernals at the moment (not entirely sure why) are somewhat a high priority (not over imps or doomlord mind you, but higher priority than anything boss damage wise) where our leader complains that we fail the damage check if an infernal does in fact relocate somewhere.

Is it really padding if the imps aren't dying fast enough anyway? That is part of an issue at the moment, it has a very noticable effect when there isn't something like that hitting imps. We've had our moments where imps get casts off only on occasions when my doom nova (arcane or frost, doesn't matter there) doesn't seem to want to proc. Not often mind you, but it has happened. So is the issue that our AOE group isn't killing these fast enough which warrants a dependency on supernova/icy nova, doom nova, etc or is it that mages are even paying attention to the imps in the first place? On a side note tho, Arcane would still be using doom nova, by your own terms are they not padding the meters either? :P

[Adramelch]

Is it really padding if the imps aren't dying fast enough anyway? That is part of an issue at the moment, it has a very noticable effect when there isn't something like that hitting imps. We've had our moments where imps get casts off only on occasions when my doom nova (arcane or frost, doesn't matter there) doesn't seem to want to proc. Not often mind you, but it has happened. So is the issue that our AOE group isn't killing these fast enough which warrants a dependency on supernova/icy nova, doom nova, etc or is it that mages are even paying attention to the imps in the first place? On a side note tho, Arcane would still be using doom nova, by your own terms are they not padding the meters either? :P

You shouldn't have to rely on random stuff (doom nova, spirit eruption and the likes) for the imps. If you're missing damage on them and the doom nova covers it up, then you need to redefine roles.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1795&wipes=1

Why is Nasks doing double the imp damage compared to Coppelia? Surely the latter has lesser gear, but nowhere enough to warrant such big difference. Also if you go log by log, you'll see them having huge variations in damage done to the imps. That means that you can't get consistent tries in. Also, I shouldn't need to mention that the Demo lock doing less imp damage than the Destro is a travesty. Why does he only have 25 Chaos Waves and 25 Cataclysm casts in 29 tries? Additionally, your ret should be doing much more damage on them. Understand he was subbed in and out so he wouldn't be able to compare, but for starters he should be playing Final Verdict, so that when imps are about to spawn, he already has a FV buff up and holy power for a divine storm, so he fires off a buffed divine storm and an unbuffed one, for tons of damage. Rallex can also do some serious imp damage with double Chi Torpedo and Chi Burst.

As you can see you have a lot of classes with the appropriate tools to deal with the Imps, so you shouldn't gimp mages and the likes just to deal with them.

Infernals are definitely not a priority. Besides, you have boomkins, shadow priests (not as much if they're playing CoP but still - Cascade), a hunter and a destro lock. Those classes alone should be able to deal with them (hunters for the extra damage on >80% health targets, shadow priests, unholy DKS and boomkins with DoTs and Cascade/Starfall and destro lock to snipe Shadowburns for embers), without really focusing them down.

[Scyclone]

You shouldn't have to rely on random stuff (doom nova, spirit eruption and the likes) for the imps. If you're missing damage on them and the doom nova covers it up, then you need to redefine roles.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1795&wipes=1

Why is Nasks doing double the imp damage compared to Coppelia? Surely the latter has lesser gear, but nowhere enough to warrant such big difference. Also if you go log by log, you'll see them having huge variations in damage done to the imps. That means that you can't get consistent tries in. Also, I shouldn't need to mention that the Demo lock doing less imp damage than the Destro is a travesty. Why does he only have 25 Chaos Waves and 25 Cataclysm casts in 29 tries? Additionally, your ret should be doing much more damage on them. Understand he was subbed in and out so he wouldn't be able to compare, but for starters he should be playing Final Verdict, so that when imps are about to spawn, he already has a FV buff up and holy power for a divine storm, so he fires off a buffed divine storm and an unbuffed one, for tons of damage. Rallex can also do some serious imp damage with double Chi Torpedo and Chi Burst.

As you can see you have a lot of classes with the appropriate tools to deal with the Imps, so you shouldn't gimp mages and the likes just to deal with them.

Infernals are definitely not a priority. Besides, you have boomkins, shadow priests (not as much if they're playing CoP but still - Cascade), a hunter and a destro lock. Those classes alone should be able to deal with them (hunters for the extra damage on >80% health targets, shadow priests, unholy DKS and boomkins with DoTs and Cascade/Starfall and destro lock to snipe Shadowburns for embers), without really focusing them down.

There is so much great information in this that I literally copied your quote over to the guild. Yes, I agree, having to rely on ANYTHING random really sucks and makes things very inconsistent.

Regarding Nasks and Coppelia, I am curious as to what could be causing such a huge variations. Is one not activating blade flurry soon enough or something?

I'll be talking to the locks and ret pally some to see if we can shape things up a bit. Our guild only just recently brought in a ret paladin as he used to be our guilds feral druid.

[Deleted]

Your group is WAY to stacked most of the fight. The only points you need to stack tightly is Gaze, rest just be loosely spread cause people are taking way to much dmg from imps spawns and Helstorm (like Deja Thoris linked above). Just make sure your ranged are in hitbox of boss when imps spawn to grab them. Get this into peoples head early and you save yourself alot of damage and potential deaths.

I see you are using the tactic where you stand on one side of the boss and move to the other side when felseeker comes. I have tried this tactic myself aswell but i felt its actually making it harder then it is. Its less space to move around and spread and very annoying with infernals. We do it so we just stand around the whole boss hitbox and move out to the middle for felseeker and stack behind the boss (all facing same way) for gaze and then spread again. I understand tactics on this boss theres certain preferences but i feel this strat isnt working very good for you guys, seeing the damage you take, so you might want to consider something else.

You are also way to stacked for p3, people are literally dying from imps spawning and helstorm again. As we do it is that we move/spread from helstorm, move in for shadowforce, if u dont get shadowforce move out again, be in ranged for imps spawn but not stacked, stack for gaze and move out for felseeker and repeat in whatever order the next combo is coming.

I havent checked but also be sure you are assigning healing cds for these p3 combos

I also took a look at your disc priest and i see hes specced into Divine star wich i think is a horrible talent here. Altho on your longest wipe he even had 0 casts on it and barely cast it overal... take Halo so you can cast it when you walk back from gaze and such, its way better. He is also not keeping Solace on cd at all, he has 11 casts out of 30ish on your longest wipe. If he cant keep it on cd then he might aswell swich to mindbender, its gonna hurt his mana later on.

[Scyclone]

Your group is WAY to stacked most of the fight. The only points you need to stack tightly is Gaze, rest just be loosely spread cause people are taking way to much dmg from imps spawns and Helstorm (like Deja Thoris linked above). Just make sure your ranged are in hitbox of boss when imps spawn to grab them. Get this into peoples head early and you save yourself alot of damage and potential deaths.

I see you are using the tactic where you stand on one side of the boss and move to the other side when felseeker comes. I have tried this tactic myself aswell but i felt its actually making it harder then it is. Its less space to move around and spread and very annoying with infernals. We do it so we just stand around the whole boss hitbox and move out to the middle for felseeker and stack behind the boss (all facing same way) for gaze and then spread again. I understand tactics on this boss theres certain preferences but i feel this strat isnt working very good for you guys, seeing the damage you take, so you might want to consider something else.

You are also way to stacked for p3, people are literally dying from imps spawning and helstorm again. As we do it is that we move/spread from helstorm, move in for shadowforce, if u dont get shadowforce move out again, be in ranged for imps spawn but not stacked, stack for gaze and move out for felseeker and repeat in whatever order the next combo is coming.

I havent checked but also be sure you are assigning healing cds for these p3 combos

I also took a look at your disc priest and i see hes specced into Divine star wich i think is a horrible talent here. Altho on your longest wipe he even had 0 casts on it and barely cast it overal... take Halo so you can cast it when you walk back from gaze and such, its way better. He is also not keeping Solace on cd at all, he has 11 casts out of 30ish on your longest wipe. If he cant keep it on cd then he might aswell swich to mindbender, its gonna hurt his mana later on.

Updating with last nights attempts.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Lqva6f7RyAJ1C2Ph

From what it seemed, we managed to get to the next phase much easier and more often, though our best % was 43% whereas the night before we had gotten to 40% (negligible since it wasn't a phase change or anything).

Some stuff I noticed

• We are taking way too much damage from area things. I, personally, feel that we are extremely cramped during the fight (especially when are are stuck at the pillar)
• We seem to fall to pieces after the Wrath (3rd Soak) / Shadowforce. The next mechanics that follow leave us in complete disarray.
• I did some damage assignments for various classes and such, it seemed to improve things in the first phase.
• We still cannot push to the next phase in 2 doom lords, our GM even dropped a healer for a few attempts and the third still spawned (despite my DBM saying 15 seconds till curse)
• Our second phase positioning feels extremely out of place, though I am not sure as to better options given that we use the box strategy for wraths.

We improved significantly on wrath soaking, with me being in place for each third wrath (provided I wasn't targeted by wrath) to soak during shadowforce.

I would like to somehow get us out of this phase and into the DPS race portion of the fight, even if it feels like we'd wipe a lot in it.

[Deja Thoris]

This is the video of our first kill, I don't know if you can glean much from the positioning there https://youtu.be/FDi18qKFnVQ
We also didn't beat the 2nd doomlord on our first kill so the comparison should be somewhat valid.

Basically when you're in front of the boss its important to spread lightly for fel hellstorm and also when the imps land. You need to collapse to infront of the pillar when shadow force or the fears are imminent.

The curse that you let expire is the hardest part of this phase. You will get shadowforce / imps / doomlord spawning and very shortly after that the fears.
The play by play of how to deal with it is something like this. (Happens at 4:15 on the linked video)
1) Doomlord spawns. It's first cast MUST be interrupted
2) Shadowforce. People without it move slightly away from pillar so imps don't all land on shadowforce people exploding you.
3) Imps land. This pack above all HAS to be obliterated. Save stuff for this. Bladestorms / mirror trinkets / anything. Solar beam the fuckers so they don't get a cast off.
4) Fears and marks go out. People with mark need to gtfo immediately. Use a roar for this. Stack on the people that are feared. Let a doomlord cast go off to break the marks.
5) At the same time fel hellstorm will start so make sure you aren't all stacked at the pillar - its safe to be away from it here.

Around this combo you want to use raid CD's pretty liberally to prevent deaths. I'd smokebomb the shadowforce with a barrier a little later just before the fears. When the doomlord cast is about to go off use personals and rally here to give people the HP buffer to survive if they aren't topped off.

From here bait felseeker and you should be close to transition. Its super important that noone is at the pillar at this time. It will start to aoe and it will wreck non tanks.

After transition how you handle it is up to you. We try to be in a line behind the boss. Grip imps and wreck them. Shortly after that is the fears. The fight can fall apart if too many people soak and the white pools get too big. Assign soakers here. Ideally you need enough people to soak two lots of fears. Mages / hunters / priests and rogues can probably do it well. Just have one person soak each lot so you don't spawn too much white crap. I have to admit we deal with wraths a bit badly here. Ideal is ranged move off to the left so they don't interfere with anyone and melee should dps for the ring and then probably sac and get ressed.

If the last phase goes well its very short. Bloodlust when it starts, ring on the imps so you get the explosion on the boss and nuke hard.

[Scyclone]

Here is what I am thinking with regards to our strategy and positioning then, Deja:

After the third soak/shadowforce/gaze, EVERYONE who is not a tank (wraths especially) need to collapse past Orange (This is where we bait felseekers out, similar to where you guys run for yours). Please note we WILL have a hellstorm going at this same exact point in time. We do NOT dispel the curse and instead hold it. After felseeker is baited, we need to get back to the pillar immediately. As soon as Curse is 1-2 seconds left, we need to dispel it (we honestly need all the time we can get here). Then we pop ring as soon as Doom Lord spawns, there will be a shadow force going out at the same time.

Once doom lord spawns, shadow force will go out (we need to be spread out some) and imps will spawn. We have an 8 second window to kill ALL imps before Mark of Doom goes out. We need to annihilate them. As soon as mark of doom goes out, we need a druid to spam stampeding roar and get the marks out of the raid immediately. There can be no delay on this, they need to turn and just run (even if they overlap one another, we dont really care at this moment). Gaze is being cast at the same exact time mark is. Once gaze is dealt with, we can pop the marks that we need to clear.

------

So basically, Bait Felseeker, Head to Pillar, Spread Out, Remove Curse at 1-2 Seconds, Pop all CDs as soon as Doom Lord is available. Wreck into both Doom Lord and Imps (Imps being the higher priority, but aoe is aoe). As soon as imps die, make sure doom lord dies, with marks gtfo-ing as fast as possible to get out of the group. From there, once gaze is dealt with, we can worry about the marks (we'd prob use a tank to break them).

Sound about right?

[Deleted]

We generally do it with pala or hunter->hunter->mage (the last is me). In fact, I figured that it can even be done with hunter or pala and mage only because I could block when the 1st ends and I would still usually have block up when shadowforce comes, which is an important bit of the strategy, to block the shadowforce of the soaker. I ended up being second or third even when I have wrath myself, but I wouldn't suggest it without being too careful.

It's generally not as hard as it seems, because if you actually survive at least with 2 soakers doing the soaking properly, the rest can normally just spread the debuff to the raid since it's not really enormous damage if they are moving around a lot, relatively healable easily.

The only time I noticed a serious issue with damage of that sort in that fight was when we tried 3 healers but I don't think that boss requires it since it only makes the very last phase faster (in a meaningful manner) while even that phase could use more healing.

Destruction lock is decent on this fight. My warlock is Afflic / Dest spec. Afflic is a no-go on this fight, you have to dps down the adds quickly. Mass chaos bolt deals with imps while havoced chaos bolt deals with doom lords and infernals. On my first kill I had about 95k dps overall, 733 ilvl.

[Dizzeeyooo]

As to the mages, I'd be annoyed id ours played frost for the fight. It's hands down the worst spec. The only reason its showing decent numbers for you is that some of your mages are using the doom nova and the iskar trinket so its add padding. Boss damage kills the boss, not padding on adds that a bladestorm or chaos wave is going to kill anyway. If you struggle with imps just have them be arcane with supernova imo.

considering that their frost mages are topping boss damage in the linked logs, I'm not really sure it is just add padding that is causing them to show decent numbers

also not sure why anyone talking about padding on adds would think frost is a weaker spec then fire for Mannoroth progression

[AioliaBR]

Hello,

My guild kill Manno on last sunday after 300+ wipes with more than 10 attempts with 0,1 and 2% left....

1. 3 Healers is more than enough for this fight
2. Set a Raid Cooldowns every skill combo, Fel Hellstorm+ Imps ou Shadowforce+Imps or shadowforce + hellstorm
3. Tanks getting a Picture Wound debuff is a big error on tank mitigation management
4. Try to balance the raid composition, too many ranged is a loose of DPS because FelSeeker Moving and a lot of Melee is a risc to not kill Infernais a time enough

[dreamdaddy]

Just a few notes:

Make sure you guys are popping all CDs/Hero/Ring as soon as Manno becomes targetable. The idea is to quickly kill the Doom Lord and have the ring explosion only hit Manno.

You'll need CDs like PW:Barrier or Spirit Link Totem for the times when everyone is near the active pillar.

Have warlocks put down demonic gateways so you guys can quickly switch sides to get away from Hellstorm. For the 2nd Hellstorm, make sure people 'bait' it away from where everyone will be moving.

Good luck, keep at it.

[BaltoGames]

It looks like you're using shadowbolt volley to break the dooms correct? If so, I'd strongly suggest using the doomspike explosion from the doomguard instead. You can drastically reduce damage coming out this way. When we progressed on this boss, something we found that would really mess with us was timing of shadowbolt volley needing to go out while the dooms were out, it'd be so close to another mechanic (imps/fears/shadowforce) it just made the encounter much more inconsistent overall.

From the positioning yall seem to be using, which is like we do, we put the 3 dooms in very specific spots. Since it always picks 1 Healer, 1 Ranged, 1 Melee, we have set spots. Lining up with a pillar (I cannot post an image yet sorry) Tanking him by the pillar, you have the Healer in the middle of the pillar the melee to the right side of it and ranged to the left. Always in front of the pillar but making sure their circles do not overlap the tanks. One of your tanks will pick up the doomguard initially, get 3-4 stacks on him, the third tank will taunt the doomguard off, the dooms will go to their spot pending their role, the tank that initially picked up the doomguard, will explode for approximately 150-200k to (if your positioning is good) the other tank and the 3 people with the doom, removing the doom, causing a single mark of doom to explode on the tanks (the side ones should be far enough away to not hit the tank but to clear their dooms) instead of taking 250k to ALL raid members from shadowbolt volley... you can with this strat literally interrupt every single shadowbolt volley in your encounter, which will drastically reduce incoming damage, which from your attempts in the log you linked, on average is going to remove 5-7mil + damage from the fight that your healers do not have to deal with. On top of this, you have players that are too clumped up with the imps spawning, causing them to take extra damage. The only real drawback we had with this strat, is occasionally you will get a pretty shitty felseeker on the ranged or healer stack point during a doom, as they (at least for our timings) often coincide with a felseeker, which just makes the tanks hate things for a few seconds and have to be extra careful.

Overall, I think the single biggest point of improvement you can make to work towards a kill is reducing your damage taken by what I suggested above and watching for things like the fel-hellstorm, damage from that is fairly high, can be avoided/reduced better, imps shouldn't ever get a cast off (if they do they can hurt very badly, which again from attempts in the logs, is between 3-6mil damage that shouldn't really happen at all. If your roster is consistent with the classes on that log, you have 3 grips so imps should be able to be gripped together every time to make them very easy to control, if an imp is getting stuck out, people are not in a close enough radius (it's a fine line to walk with it due to mechanics requiring you not bee ontop of each other but close enough to deal with the imps most efficiently), but even so you have single grips as well, if they are clumped up though every time, not just for aoe, but for stunning (mass interrupt essentially) you have shockwave available or shadowfury from the locks to ensure the imps never cast felblast.

The changes above, on some of your pulls will have stopped nearly 10 million damage from being dealt to your raid and will remove a lot of the spike damage that can happen on the fight (generally the spike damage is people doing something wrong/something going off that shouldn't). Damage becomes much easier to predict this way and the doom people can be bubbled while moving in to absorb some of the doomspike damage they will take.

Hope this helps .

Edit: Regarding the pushing in 2 doomguards, things to do is like others said ensure cds are all being lined up with ring, ect. You can pop heroism early to push into that phase as well, you can also charge your ring with imps/aoe to burst (and make sure it ONLY hits Mannoroth) to try to push him faster as well. Can also /pray to RNG gods and have DKs/Rogues/(I think mages too) try to immune the doomguards (I typically find after the first one, to keep the fight pacing well) esp the closer you get to the last phase.