Gearing system in Legion

[Krusza]

Is there anything on the alpha currently implementing this?

If so, what are the current drop rates of boxes like, and what's the ilvl difference between the tiers of gear?

They compared PvP gear to similar ilvls of raiding gear, but it increases with rating. There's currently a 35 ilvl difference (more if you include LFR) between the lowest and highest raiding tiers.

Is the stat increase in instanced PvP still 10 ilvl = 1% stat increase? If so, that means that the people with top-end gear wouldn't have that much of an advantage over the people without gear. At the moment it'd be equal to having (stat-wise) slightly under an extra ring.

That's if the ilvl differences stay the same, obviously. Anyone looked into these things on alpha?

[Livevil]

People with top end gear will have a 7% difference with someone with no gear according to blizzard. 10% is currently the difference between honor and conquest gear.

[Mafic]

Another layer of difference is those with honor talents and those without. If a player tries to engage in world PVP against someone with honor talents they are going to be missing a large chunk of tools.

I

[TrumpIsPresident]

10% is currently the difference between honor and conquest gear.

22-28% more like it.

[Kagthul]

22-28% more like it.

Just two items that i happen to have on me on the toon im playing at the moment:

iLevel 700/730 Wild Gladiator's Scaled Helm (@730)
424 Str
636 Stam
283 Haste
283 Mastery

iLevel 710/740 Warmongering Gladiator's Scaled Helm (@740)
465 Str
698 Stam
310 Haste
310 Mastery

About a 11% str gain (a little less than that)
About a 11% stam gain (again, just a hair less)
About an 11% gain to both secondary stats.

Wild Gladiator's Signet of Endurance (700/730, @730)
238 Str
357 Stam
147 Haste
170 Bonus Armor

Warmongering Gladiator's Signet of Endurance (710/740, @740)
262 Str
393 Stam
162 Haste
187 Bonus Armor

Again, roughly 11% gains across the board (or, more precisely, the values on the lower iLevel item are 90.3-90.7% of the values of the higher iLevel item)

So.. yeah. About 11-12%.

[Deleted]

Another layer of difference is those with honor talents and those without. If a player tries to engage in world PVP against someone with honor talents they are going to be missing a large chunk of tools.

I

Yeah well the thing is, you gain the lower tier important stuff quickly, like the trinket. Everyone will have those.

The later tier stuff isn't that important if you are being ganked. I can make do just fine without spell reflect for instance.

Gear will always be important. Doesn't matter if it's 2% or 7% difference. It'll always matter.

[Livevil]

Just two items that i happen to have on me on the toon im playing at the moment:

Again, roughly 11% gains across the board (or, more precisely, the values on the lower iLevel item are 90.3-90.7% of the values of the higher iLevel item)

So.. yeah. About 11-12%.

Actually the difference is less than 10%. Current conquest has about 9,5%-9,8% more stats.

[Soisoisoi]

The real numbers you should be focusing on are the difference between Honor/Conquest and NO PvP gear. Especially a season or two into the expansion. WoD is awful when you're just starting out, you literally have less than half a fully geared person's HP, and most classes can global you easily.

The last two seasons on WoD have been pretty much capped out (only a 10 ilvl difference) so we can assume they'll do that again as well, so it's a smaller jump.

[rda]

The real numbers you should be focusing on are the difference between Honor/Conquest and NO PvP gear. Especially a season or two into the expansion. WoD is awful when you're just starting out, you literally have less than half a fully geared person's HP, and most classes can global you easily.

The last two seasons on WoD have been pretty much capped out (only a 10 ilvl difference) so we can assume they'll do that again as well, so it's a smaller jump.

There's little reason to consider the difference between Honor and no PVP gear, because getting full Honor takes a couple of evenings. Yes, really, I am not exaggerating, the gear is raining (in fact, you are going to be 5 ilvls behind Honor in all slots after the first two-three hours). And if there are any concerns still, let's just scale everyone up to the ilvl of Honor - 5.

It doesn't matter how many seasons into the expansion we are either, because scaling up follows that.

[Soisoisoi]

There's little reason to consider the difference between Honor and no PVP gear, because getting full Honor takes a couple of evenings. Yes, really, I am not exaggerating, the gear is raining (in fact, you are going to be 5 ilvls behind Honor in all slots after the first two-three hours). And if there are any concerns still, let's just scale everyone up to the ilvl of Honor - 5.

It doesn't matter how many seasons into the expansion we are either, because scaling up follows that.

I was talking about WoD's gearing process. It's fast, sure, but it takes the absolute piss in a place [read: PvP] where gear should not even come into the equation. You can get absolutely destroyed by a back-pedalling mongoloid Hunter because his pet can auto attack you to death, or just get one shot by a Chimaera Shot. It's no wonder people are scared of trying it.

Legion will be much better in this respect, but the numbers are so close that the only thing worth considering would be no gear to full gear.

[Livevil]

The real numbers you should be focusing on are the difference between Honor/Conquest and NO PvP gear. Especially a season or two into the expansion. WoD is awful when you're just starting out, you literally have less than half a fully geared person's HP, and most classes can global you easily.

The last two seasons on WoD have been pretty much capped out (only a 10 ilvl difference) so we can assume they'll do that again as well, so it's a smaller jump.

Every expansion has been awful when you were starting up. Every single one of them. WoD is the least painful of all on this matter. It takes 6 hours of running around in trashran picking up treasures and getting full honor gear, not having to participate in ANY pvp encounter. Then you proceed to cap on low mmr and you are SET FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON.

In legion, you will be in a perpetual state of being constantly undergeared, you will be missing ALL your honor talents at the start which btw will take much longer to farm (most likely lacking artifact talents as well) and most importantly catching up those that have been playing since the start and are fully geared will take much much longer.

If you think the legion system is an improvement you're in for a nasty surprise.

Edit: I'm not even gonna comment how much of a clusterfuck any non instanced pvp encounter will be. If you experienced timeless island before the prideful season you'd know.

[xhisors]

Every expansion has been awful when you were starting up. Every single one of them. WoD is the least painful of all on this matter. It takes 6 hours of running around in trashran picking up treasures and getting full honor gear, not having to participate in ANY pvp encounter. Then you proceed to cap on low mmr and you are SET FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON.

In legion, you will be in a perpetual state of being constantly undergeared, you will be missing ALL your honor talents at the start which btw will take much longer to farm (most likely lacking artifact talents as well) and most importantly catching up those that have been playing since the start and are fully geared will take much much longer.

If you think the legion system is an improvement you're in for a nasty surprise.

Edit: I'm not even gonna comment how much of a clusterfuck any non instanced pvp encounter will be. If you experienced timeless island before the prideful season you'd know.

So much truth here - yet people seem to think its such a great system.

Wait till the end of the xpac when you start a new character and you are missing all your talents and you come across someone in full mythic pve gear anywhere. I can tell you it will be fun for one person... and not the fresh 110.

On top of that, like you said you can NEVER be 100% equal gear.

[Kagthul]

Edit: I'm not even gonna comment how much of a clusterfuck any non instanced pvp encounter will be. If you experienced timeless island before the prideful season you'd know.

Yeah, im looking forward to playing my Blood DK and Prot Paladin in World PvP, where ill have 5+ times the HP as a DPS and do about 80% of their damage, and all of my tanking cooldowns have 100% PvE effectiveness instead of the 50 or 60% nerfs they take in instanced PvP.. and all my self healing is PvE-numbers and not the 1% per hit/target of PvP.

Its going to be -hillarious-

Awful as hell for the game, but ill enjoy the shit out of it.

[PrairieChicken]

I am starting to think that they are deliberately fudging wpvp again (with mindset "wpvp is never balanced deal with it")

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Yeah, im looking forward to playing my Blood DK and Prot Paladin in World PvP, where ill have 5+ times the HP as a DPS and do about 80% of their damage, and all of my tanking cooldowns have 100% PvE effectiveness instead of the 50 or 60% nerfs they take in instanced PvP.. and all my self healing is PvE-numbers and not the 1% per hit/target of PvP.

Its going to be -hillarious-

Awful as hell for the game, but ill enjoy the shit out of it.

Well to spoil your fun tanks will be heavily nerfed in legion

[Krusza]

I am starting to think that they are deliberately fudging wpvp again (with mindset "wpvp is never balanced deal with it")

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Well to spoil your fun tanks will be heavily nerfed in legion

That was already obvious when they announced that shitton of legendary items.

[Livevil]

I am starting to think that they are deliberately fudging wpvp again (with mindset "wpvp is never balanced deal with it")

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Well to spoil your fun tanks will be heavily nerfed in legion

Unlikely. It's a role that has almost no use in rated pvp except a very limited one, maybe, in rbgs. Meaning if you're a tank with heroic raid gear your ilvl will be equivalent to around 2200-2300 rating pvp gear with the most desired stats. Of course outside of instanced pvp you will have the full ilvl advantage which is like 50 ilvls from BG gear.. You can guess where this is going.

Also, i forgot to add that tanks get some really nasty pvp talents as well

[Kagthul]

I am starting to think that they are deliberately fudging wpvp again (with mindset "wpvp is never balanced deal with it")

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Well to spoil your fun tanks will be heavily nerfed in legion

.. you dont seem to understand.. im talking about how they ARE in Legion right now.

Tanks will have 5-15x the HP of a DPS or Healer in PvE (confirmed in several blue posts) and do about 80-90% of the damage of a pure DPS.

This doesn't apply in instanced PvP, of course, where tanks have much more sane HP numbers, and their passive healing/hp gains and tanking cooldowns are heavily nerfed.

But in world PvP the stat template doesn't apply. Youll have your full PvE HP, do your full PvE damage, and your passive healing/hp gains will be at full PvE values, as will your tanking cooldowns.

Tanks in World PvP are going to be bannanas

[PrairieChicken]

.. you dont seem to understand.. im talking about how they ARE in Legion right now.

Tanks will have 5-15x the HP of a DPS or Healer in PvE (confirmed in several blue posts) and do about 80-90% of the damage of a pure DPS.

This doesn't apply in instanced PvP, of course, where tanks have much more sane HP numbers, and their passive healing/hp gains and tanking cooldowns are heavily nerfed.

But in world PvP the stat template doesn't apply. Youll have your full PvE HP, do your full PvE damage, and your passive healing/hp gains will be at full PvE values, as will your tanking cooldowns.

Tanks in World PvP are going to be bannanas

They buffed tank hp to ridiculous levels? Interesting. Can't wait to see how it crash and burn

[Mafic]

They buffed tank hp to ridiculous levels? Interesting. Can't wait to see how it crash and burn

They did it because they want Tanks to be brainless damage soakers in Legion PVE raiding relying on healers to top them off in PVE and they lost a lot of their mitigation tools. But if tanks designed for PVE gain PVP talents which adds utility...yeah they will be bonkers for world PVP.

[Kagthul]

it will only be an issue in World PvP, mind.

In any instanced PvP (and event he zone-wide free-PvP zones, i hear) the PvP stat template applies and drastically reduces tank HP and self-healing and mitigation talents/skills are nerfed.