LFX - why remove the tool?

[Fenixhart]

I can safely say that the amount of people who want me to socialize and shit by removing LFR/LFD ranks them above my mother about caring about what I do with my social life.

This "Feeling of communtiy" is garbage. I don't interact with the community at large 9 times out of ten. I just want people who can get the job done.

The game has more tools than ever now to be social. It also has given us ways to be more successful on our own. Why people want to take longer to find dungeon groups over an ephemeral feeling of community I'll never know,

[Vaelorian]

I can safely say that the amount of people who want me to socialize and shit by removing LFR/LFD ranks them above my mother about caring about what I do with my social life.

This "Feeling of communtiy" is garbage. I don't interact with the community at large 9 times out of ten. I just want people who can get the job done.

The game has more tools than ever now to be social. It also has given us ways to be more successful on our own. Why people want to take longer to find dungeon groups over an ephemeral feeling of community I'll never know,

You know why you just want people who can get the job done? Because the job at hand is trivial. Why play an mmo if you do not care about the social aspect? Honest question.

[kenoathcarn]

It is as needed for leveling as paying the sub (with gold or money)
I have leveled 29 chars since may 2015, from zero to 100 level.
If i had to level just one char without the LFD, i am afraid only the chars that already were 90,would be 100.

This isn't a problem of LFD it's a problem of shitty population balance on realms.

[Jtbrig7390]

You know why you just want people who can get the job done? Because the job at hand is trivial. Why play an mmo if you do not care about the social aspect? Honest question.

The answer to that question is simple....

Some just don't care. MMO does not mean must be social. Also why would I want to be social to a community who 9 times out of 10 just wants to be assholes. I mean look at trade chat. All the racisit bullshit that gets said daily, these are the people you expect me to be social with.

It isn't a requirment to be social in RL and it isn't a requirment to be social in a MMO.

Also forced socialising isn't being social.

[kenoathcarn]

I can safely say that the amount of people who want me to socialize and shit by removing LFR/LFD ranks them above my mother about caring about what I do with my social life.

This "Feeling of communtiy" is garbage. I don't interact with the community at large 9 times out of ten. I just want people who can get the job done.

The game has more tools than ever now to be social. It also has given us ways to be more successful on our own. Why people want to take longer to find dungeon groups over an ephemeral feeling of community I'll never know,

Because i want to feel like I'm playing with 4 other PLAYERS, why don't they just make dungeons single player because that's basically how it feels right now.

The answer to that question is simple....

Some just don't care. MMO does not mean must be social. Also why would I want to be social to a community who 9 times out of 10 just wants to be assholes. I mean look at trade chat. All the racisit bullshit that gets said daily, these are the people you expect me to be social with.

It isn't a requirment to be social in RL and it isn't a requirment to be social in a MMO.

Also forced socialising isn't being social.

When your forced to interact with other people it means you take more care in choosing who you play with as, and saying an mmo does not mean must be social is completely wrong, if your not interacting with other people then it is NOT an mmo, socializing and interacting are integral parts of the genre, without them you are playing an RPG.

[Deleted]

This isn't a problem of LFD it's a problem of shitty population balance on realms.

Nope, for me the problem is that questing in this game is boring as hell, so if i had to level up a char just by doing quests, instead of what i do now, which is questing while i wait for the dungeon thing, i would not be able to reach even level 60, because it is not a game it is a very boring chore.
Not even gonna mention questing in outlands and northrend.
Oh and having to actually go to a dungeon of current content might be ok, but having to wait for the zep, or a ship to cross continents for doing a leveling dungeon, well i think that is as stupid as questing.

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Because i want to feel like I'm playing with 4 other PLAYERS, why don't they just make dungeons single player because that's basically how it feels right now.

THE FUCK; how many times has a NPC kick you out of a dungeon, just because he can?
Not to mention the amount of times everything goes south, because of unexperienced players, up to the point that nowadays i see that a lot of people thank the other players when dungeon is over and everything went as intended.

[Fenixhart]

Because i want to feel like I'm playing with 4 other PLAYERS, why don't they just make dungeons single player because that's basically how it feels right now.

How is getting 4 people randomly selected and 4 people from trade any different other than the 4 you get randomly selected are faster.

This is such a no brainer.

You know why you just want people who can get the job done? Because the job at hand is trivial. Why play an mmo if you do not care about the social aspect? Honest question.

I don't care about a Fantasy conjoured by the Rose tinted goggles of washed up has beens jerking ther Gherkin about how glorious the past was.

As an RPer I have my social spaces in MMOs. They generally aren't in dungeons when I'm gearing and I have a guild to raid with.


My Social MMO aspect is completely covered. It's not gonna increase from having to head hunt from trade.

[kenoathcarn]

Nope, for me the problem is that questing in this game is boring as hell, so if i had to level up a char just by doing quests, instead of what i do now, which is questing while i wait for the dungeon thing, i would not be able to reach even level 60, because it is not a game it is a very boring chore.
Not even gonna mention questing in outlands and northrend.
Oh and having to actually go to a dungeon of current content might be ok, but having to wait for the zep, or a ship to cross continents for doing a leveling dungeon, well i think that is as stupid as questing.

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THE FUCK; how many times has a NPC kick you out of a dungeon, just because he can?
Not to mention the amount of times everything goes south, because of unexperienced players, up to the point that nowadays i see that a lot of people thank the other players when dungeon is over and everything went as intended.

and with LFD removed you would use the group finder tool, and with proper realm pop balancing it would not be an issue what so ever, you would find people for your group.

if you are actually telling me that questing and leveling are boring then there is another issue here, and that is that the current game is just far to end-game focused.

most people didn't even hit max level for months, doesn't mean they didn't enjoy the game and cried about how they were going to un subscribe.

[Jtbrig7390]

When your forced to interact with other people it means you take more care in choosing who you play with as, and saying an mmo does not mean must be social is completely wrong, if your not interacting with other people then it is NOT an mmo, socializing and interacting are integral parts of the genre, without them you are playing an RPG.

Ya it is still a MMO just like RL is still RL when you don't interact with people.

By me logging in and seeing other people that makes it a MMO. It is my choice from that point on how social I want to be. If I just want to be social by talking in trade thats my choice.

No one has the right to say different sorry.

[Deleted]

How is getting 4 people randomly selected and 4 people from trade any different other than the 4 you get randomly selected are faster.

That they can ask for level 100 people for doing deadmines XD.

[Jtbrig7390]

My Social MMO aspect is completely covered. It's not gonna increase from having to head hunt from trade.

Well said.

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and with LFD removed you would use the group finder tool, and with proper realm pop balancing it would not be an issue what so ever, you would find people for your group.

No I wouldn't because I don't even use LFG now. I got my NM+ raiding done and I did it for the tier gear.

If come Legion LFR stays how it is or if at some point they remove LFD/LFR I won't play WoW anymore. Removing a feature isn't going to force me into anything besides quitting and playing a different MMO.

Also how come FFXIV can have the same systems as well but yet you can be social in that MMO? Ill give you a massive hit at the difference........Community.

[Deleted]

and with LFD removed you would use the group finder tool, and with proper realm pop balancing it would not be an issue what so ever, you would find people for your group.

Yes there you are right, but still there is a slight difference, LFD let´s you add XP by doing quests while you are waiting, because it takes care of everything, while the group finder tool while being uber usefull, requires a little more attention.
When i am onto kazzak, i do nothing else until it is done.
Still, yes it is a very small difference.

[kenoathcarn]

How is getting 4 people randomly selected and 4 people from trade any different other than the 4 you get randomly selected are faster.

This is such a no brainer.


I don't care about a Fantasy conjoured by the Rose tinted goggles of washed up has beens jerking ther Gherkin about how glorious the past was.

As an RPer I have my social spaces in MMOs. They generally aren't in dungeons when I'm gearing and I have a guild to raid with.


My Social MMO aspect is completely covered. It's not gonna increase from having to head hunt from trade.

the issue is that the social mmo aspect of the game shouldn't be something i have to actually seek out, it should be a part of the whole game experience.

and as far as "how is it any different" i have friends i met from vanilla/tbc that i am still friends with (who were never even in my guild) almost 10 years later. i dont remember ANYONE from cata and beyond(who werent in my raid group).

Are you going to honestly try and tell me that all these small things don't add up and contribute to this issue? I would label myself as one of the most anti social people you would ever meet, and if you asked me back in 2006-2008 if i liked social aspects of the game then i probably would have told you no. but reflecting back upon those things its very clear that they were mandatory parts of the game that greatly improved my enjoyment of it. as i said before, I don't remember vanilla/tbc/wrath because of the content, I remember it because of the people i played with.

[Jokerfiend]

Don't think it was specifically for those that it was godsend. I think it was great for everyone!

Ok, the problem is two-fold.

In WotLK, Heroics took longer to find groups for then actually took to complete. This caused a vacuum in groups. So, you either trained them with a guild groups, or you spent more time looking for a group than actually fighting in them. This issue wasn't a problem before WotLK. It took just about as long to complete a dungeon in Vanilla and TBC, as it did to look for it. So, It left a lot of people out of the loop that could pug. Now suddenly, couldn't pug due to the community, not the game. Causing the introduction of LFG tool.

But the ease of WotLK dungeons and LFG, caused a loss of communication that was used in the prior expansion. So it came a culture shock, when Cata dropped the CC dungeons and everyone forgot how to play their classes. Then coupled with randoms in the LFG experience.. you can see why Cata's launch was considered a disaster, on top of everything else.

This cause a fissure in the community. Those that want a return to having complicated dungeons that require extra communication. And those happy with In and Out AoEfests.

Personally, I met a majority of my friends in Vanilla and TBC through Vent or whatever, and grouping with these people often. My experiences with these people then makes for a well founded nostalgia. Getting on vent, saying the usual, experiencing those that could play and those that couldn't. Making friends with those that were consistent, and good people. And building a center around these people.

I just hope my example, kind of shows how the game helps make the community. And how the community will evolve around what the game offers.

[Fenixhart]

the issue is that the social mmo aspect of the game shouldn't be something i have to actually seek out, it should be a part of the whole game experience.

and as far as "how is it any different" i have friends i met from vanilla/tbc that i am still friends with (who were never even in my guild) almost 10 years later. i dont remember ANYONE from cata and beyond(who werent in my raid group).

Are you going to honestly try and tell me that all these small things don't add up and contribute to this issue? I would label myself as one of the most anti social people you would ever meet, and if you asked me back in 2006-2008 if i liked social aspects of the game then i probably would have told you no. but reflecting back upon those things its very clear that they were mandatory parts of the game that greatly improved my enjoyment of it. as i said before, I don't remember vanilla/tbc/wrath because of the content, I remember it because of the people i played with.

Meanwhile People I Met in Mists of Pandaria I still hang with and Anyone I knew from TBC or Wrath I've pretty much left behind.

You're still asking for a certainty in convenience over a possibility of bonding.

And to be frank, the sort of socialziation that you talk about is one born almost entirely of a need to just do content together. That sometimes put me together with people who on social terms I would have never have given even the time of day to in normal circumstances. but the need of people to regularly run with kept me by their side.

Now I left them in the dust and can continue to function as a player on the side and interact with people I actually consider friends as socially as I want.

I say again-Whatever the Community was back in the day, it can kindly go fuck itself.

[Deleted]

I want to give you guys an impression of how life without LFR and LFD is on privats for serveral years: It's a blessing for the server community and nobody is missing it. Every server is using the custom world chat (/join world) as trade and group channel or spamming thunderfury. My friendslist is filled with tanks and healers, in case in my guild has no tank or healer online. And honestly, finding a group over the world chat is sometimes faster than me being on a retail queue for 20 +minutes as dps.

Please believe me, people do talk and like the company of players they already been into some dungeons with before, add each other and even whisper if you wanna come with them again. It's just the current form of crossrealm tools with people you will never see again in combination with the way too low difficulty nobody says more than hi and then disappears.

[Deleted]

I much prefer the way of assembling one's own group through handpicking each member and feel a sense of responsibility for my group. The LFD tool mixes and matches players at a whim with complete disregard to anything besides being max level and having the desired ilvl. I feel nothing towards any of said players because I'll never meet them ever again, and that feeling is mutual for the most part. That said, I don't leave groups at a whim or exhibit nasty behaviour towards them for that reason, I still respect other players. Doing said dungeons are basically going through the motions if anything.

To be fair, I can see why some players like the feature, and the fact that the community is so split on these things is exactly why I wouldn't mind if the community was split in some kind of pristine/legacy server and regular server. I could also say that I don't give a shit about whoever likes the LFD feature, because at no point in the game will we ever cross each other or be friends because we have 2 entirely different values. Sounds harsh, but that's one way to look at it as well.

[kenoathcarn]

Meanwhile People I Met in Mists of Pandaria I still hang with and Anyone I knew from TBC or Wrath I've pretty much left behind.

You're still asking for a certainty in convenience over a possibility of bonding.

And to be frank, the sort of socialziation that you talk about is one born almost entirely of a need to just do content together. That sometimes put me together with people who on social terms I would have never have given even the time of day to in normal circumstances. but the need of people to regularly run with kept me by their side.

Now I left them in the dust and can continue to function as a player on the side and interact with people I actually consider friends as socially as I want.

I say again-Whatever the Community was back in the day, it can kindly go fuck itself.

And this is again a problem. take my situation, I'm a mythic raider, I never talk to people in 5mans/lfr/normal and even honestly heroic raids because i don't need any loot from it, it takes no communication to complete the dungeon so basically my social circle in the game becomes limited to my own guild/fellow raiders and/or new applicants.

So what does blizzard to to give me an incentive to change this? they make a reward like bonus valor for completing a dungeon, That's all well and good but now its just becomes a matter of que up and get out as fast as possible, I don't need to talk to anyone, I basically solo the dungeon because i completely out gear it and there's no need for me to even attempt to coordinate with my party or help them get any better because they could literally go afk and i can complete it for them.

And whats your response to this? should i just take off my gear and willingly gimp myself and pretend I'm actually getting a real reward for my "challenge".

I literally have no incentive whatsoever to interact with new people, and i shouldn't have to actively seek it out, it goes against the very heart of an mmorpg.

[Zenotetsuken]

I don't have a problem with the tool itself, but I do have a problem with how it is used currently. If it were still the old WotLK LFG tool, it would be one thing; what we have now is what happens after corporations get their hands on a good idea.

[Fenixhart]

And this is again a problem. take my situation, I'm a mythic raider, I never talk to people in 5mans/lfr/normal and even honestly heroic raids because i don't need any loot from it, it takes no communication to complete the dungeon so basically my social circle in the game becomes limited to my own guild/fellow raiders and/or new applicants.

So what does blizzard to to give me an incentive to change this? they make a reward like bonus valor for completing a dungeon, That's all well and good but now its just becomes a matter of que up and get out as fast as possible, I don't need to talk to anyone, I basically solo the dungeon because i completely out gear it and there's no need for me to even attempt to coordinate with my party or help them get any better because they could literally go afk and i can complete it for them.

And whats your response to this? should i just take off my gear and willingly gimp myself and pretend I'm actually getting a real reward for my "challenge".

I literally have no incentive whatsoever to interact with new people, and i shouldn't have to actively seek it out, it goes against the very heart of an mmorpg.

Why do you need to have dungeons be your social time?

And even then you say it takes no communication to get things done. Why are you having communicating boss mecanics as social time?

I think we have two very fundamentally different ideas of what being social is...