So Kansas, how's the trickle tasting?

[Xeones]

So the state controls and deals with every local municipalities water? It doesn't work like that in my state, we have a locally elected water board

I'm not sure where you're going with this. I've never heard of a place where the state controls the water.

[alexw]

Falling velocity of money is a poor economic concept in the first place and hardly justification for massive wealth redistribution and increased public spending.

What on earth?????

Velocity of money is a key economic concept and is fundamental to how economies function. In every single case a low velocity of money signals a poorly functioning economy relative to its full potential. Look at what happened to it in 2008 -



Looks like again you haven't a clue but don't like something because it goes against your extreme right-wing beliefs.

[Tijuana]

What on earth?????

Velocity of money is a key economic concept and is fundamental to how economies function. In every single case a low velocity of money signals a poorly functioning economy relative to its full potential. Look at what happened to it in 2008 -



Looks like again you haven't a clue but don't like something because it goes against your extreme right-wing beliefs.

Wait, the economy went South in 2008? Where did you find this secret out at?

[alexw]

Dude, what? Trickle-down economics came from witnessing economic miracles in Japan, Brazil, China, and South Korea from the 1960s-1980s. The idea was that if more money was freed up by increasing national savings rates, which was achieved by increasing the rich households share of the national wealth "pie", then more investment would result because of the accounting definition where Savings = Investment.

The issue is that the US doesn't lack credit or funding for investment projects, but these projects are blocked for political reasons. The fact that it doesn't work here isn't what ought to piss you off about the whole endeavor (because it does work elsewhere,) the thing which ought to piss you off is that people who are trained economists somehow mistook the United States for an impoverished backwater country which can't keep the lights running.

Side note: Pretty sure this thread qualifies as nation-bashing.

Sorry but this is utterly laughable. Japan in the 60-80's had one of the most equal income distributions on the planet. China was communist and functioned under a different economic model so household savings didn't fund investment as you suggest. SK I don't know enough about, and Brazil never had an economic miracle in the 60's-80's period.

As for the US the problem is not regulatory. But that -

a) there are simply not enough productive investment opportunities because too much income has been shifted to the wealthy meaning there is not enough consumption to create the necessary investment opportunities. Put simply people cannot afford to buy what all that investment would produce so the investment doesn't happen (instead we get share buy-backs and bubbles).

and b) the system has increasingly been re-orientated to be driven by short-termist decisions. Investment has a long term horizon which can span decades. If you only care about how well a company does for the next couple quarters be you the CEO, or a shareholder, then you are not going to want that company to make an investment decision that will pay off a decade from now.

[breadisfunny]

as for the thread title i think the trickle tastes a little yellow.

[A dot Ham]

An economic concept that depends on generosity is doomed to fail. I have no idea how trickle down economics became an accepted practice to begin with. It's one of those things that sounds great in theory but then you remember humans are greedy malicious assholes.....

Its not about generosity, its simply about spending.

The problem is the rich make way more money than they can spend. So when they don't spend, we get fucked.

Its supposed to work more for corporations and not individual rich people.

Example: Corporation gets a billion dollar tax break. The hope is that that corporation possibly builds another factory, so they can turn MORE profit. That factory stimulates the economy for contractors to build, utilities offered, creates jobs, creates more product for people to buy, people buy and the factory can turn out more... etc.

Individuals don't spend infinitely. Even if they have a private jet, 12 cars, 5 mansions etc. At some point you run out of things to spend it on.

Also rich people don't invest like us plebeians do. They don't invest in stocks, they invest in finite resources, fuel, water, land. But then they hoard it and wait for it to be worth blood. Tis the way of kings i'm afraid.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I thought that "Trickle Down" economics was already disproved, like a long while ago... >.<

[Belize]

I thought that "Trickle Down" economics was already disproved, like a long while ago... >.<

So is flat Earth, yet people still believe in it. Never underestimate dogmatism, and an unwillingness to see the truth.

[A dot Ham]

I thought that "Trickle Down" economics was already disproved, like a long while ago... >.<

Ya but people still falsely praise Reagan and his Reaganomics which is basically a trickle down economy. Actually if you follow the history, our current economic problems can be traced directly to his policies... if anything we should be criticizing him and he should be hated... but you know... facts.

[alexw]

Wait, the economy went South in 2008? Where did you find this secret out at?

And you are completely missing the point. Knadra stated that vom does not matter. That it dropped off a cliff in 2008 shows that it very much does.

[Gheld]

The crazy thing about this discussion is that none of what you guys are discussing actually happened. Some people who decided to call themselves your superiors made some pen strokes, changed a bunch of numbers, and then everyone just acted it out, because 'muh economics'.

You can't have any candy unless you give me this imaginary number. You can't have this imaginary number because the economy is bad. Therefore you will have no candy.

[enragedgorilla]

Ah yes, the American right. Making the poor poorer and the rich richer, while claiming the reason for it failing is 'government regulation' and not having 'free markets'. Gotta love them lying through their teeth.

Yeah, it is a shame all those rich lefties don't hand their money back.

[breadisfunny]

I thought that "Trickle Down" economics was already disproved, like a long while ago... >.<

the gop and it's followers have a STRONG incentive to keep the lies going. $$$ why bother with proper governance when you can treat your citizens like peasants in a 12th century style feudal caste system to be exploited. and when stuff goes wrong JUST TAX THEM SOME MORE and give businesses more cuts! win win for all the rich involved.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, it is a shame all those rich lefties don't hand their money back.

quite a few of them actually do.

[urasim]

Well, I personally wouldn't trust anyone who's rich and a part of the political establishment, regardless of what their political views are. Basically, don't trust rich people. Good advice to live by.

I prefer to not trust anyone.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Ya but people still falsely praise Reagan and his Reaganomics which is basically a trickle down economy. Actually if you follow the history, our current economic problems can be traced directly to his policies... if anything we should be criticizing him and he should be hated... but you know... facts.

Don't get me wrong, I used to really like Reagan... Still do, actually. But a lot of people "these days" seem to not really understand what he was all about, it seems... >.<

[Spraxle]

eh no offence but you sound like a typical Johnson county person. he won with 63% of the vote. 800,000 out of 2.9 million people in Kansas voted. he wasnt exactly hiding who or what he was as a govenor. :P

Okay... considering no one listens to politicians and their promises I guess it's not surprising he won by a lot. Plus Brownback wasn't always a 'terrible' name in the state. No offense, but you sound like a typical has to bash Johnson County person. I do live in Johnson County and it's not all roses and rainbows. I live well below the poverty line for a single person. And here's the thing Johnson County brings in a lot of money (most of counties around KCK do) than the counties in western Kansas where it's all farm land. Sorry that seems to offend you.

[TwistedSkull]

Trickle down economics has never worked and only help the rich getting richer and making the poor poorer...

[alexw]

Trickle down economics has never worked and only help the rich getting richer and making the poor poorer...

Yup and the general population has started cottoning on to this fraud, which is a big part of why the number of republican supporters is steadily shrinking. New voters are just not buying into this crap.

[GennGreymane]

Kansas is better off than Detroit, I also find it amusing that you apparently are so bright that you can determine the individual economic factors and the influence they have. That's pretty inpressive

an entire state v 1 city????... oh snap! I love the comparison though.

[Xeones]

Don't get me wrong, I used to really like Reagan... Still do, actually. But a lot of people "these days" seem to not really understand what he was all about, it seems... >.<

I don't understand how anyone could like Reagan. He's a president who actively harmed the people of this nation. When pressed into a bad situation with thousands of jobs lost to globalization the decision he made was those shift all the wealth to the top and greatly devalue the american worker.