LFX - why remove the tool?

[Deleted]

And this is again a problem. take my situation, I'm a mythic raider, I never talk to people in 5mans/lfr/normal and even honestly heroic raids because i don't need any loot from it, it takes no communication to complete the dungeon so basically my social circle in the game becomes limited to my own guild/fellow raiders and/or new applicants.

I don't really understand why you go with your character that has the best gear in the game into a one of the starter areas of the end game. What's the point?

[Sansnom]

When your forced to interact with other people it means you take more care in choosing who you play with as, and saying an mmo does not mean must be social is completely wrong, if your not interacting with other people then it is NOT an mmo, socializing and interacting are integral parts of the genre, without them you are playing an RPG.

Forced interaction is never a good idea. As for an MMO, talking to anyone and everyone is not a requirement. It just means you are in a game with a lot people. People should not be required to talk to everyone they meet. As the trade chat or general chat. I rather not go there. I have seen enough of the same repeated jokes from the same people who thinks they are funny. Besides, if I am logged in, I rather be playing.

Personally, my experience before and after LFD has been the same. People talk when they want. Most just want to get it done. They are not interested in talking to random strangers. The only chatter has mainly been in strategy and familiarity with the dungeon. This itself has nothing to do with LFD or not. Just the difficulty of the dungeon.

I am curious if you personally have started any social conversation in a dungeon with people you do not know. I have experience some, so they do happen. But this is the exception rather than norm. Even before LFD.

[kenoathcarn]

Why do you need to have dungeons be your social time?

And even then you say it takes no communication to get things done. Why are you having communicating boss mecanics as social time?

I think we have two very fundamentally different ideas of what being social is...

Dungeons is just one example of how end-game focused the game is right now. Do you remember a little zone called hillsbrad in vanilla? do you remember the AQ war effort? do you remember a time when allot of content in the game was driven by players themselves.

allot of the greatest memories i have from the old versions of the game are player driven content like this, not raids, or dungeons. and this is what i miss.

[Kauko]

I never understood why people want LFG to be removed... who the heck misses 30minute trade chat spam LF TANK...

LFD sure, we don't need it. We can use LFG, form a group as we want it then run to the instance we want to do. Never understood LFD nor BG finder. For BGs we can also revive old BG masters... this way game will become much more social. No more UI button spamming...

[Fenixhart]

Dungeons is just one example of how end-game focused the game is right now. Do you remember a little zone called hillsbrad in vanilla? do you remember the AQ war effort? do you remember a time when allot of content in the game was driven by players themselves.

allot of the greatest memories i have from the old versions of the game are player driven content like this, not raids, or dungeons. and this is what i miss.

I started in TBC so no.

And nether of those would have been done with LFG or LFD regardless because it was World Pvp and a Zone event.

You're just not selling me on going back to hours of doing one dungeon with a group that falls apart midway. I will gladly never return to that.

[Vark]

Now when I think about it - LFD came up with easy dungeons. I wonder what would happen if LFD was introduced on TBC and people got MGT hc. There would be so much scream in the air that someone would think that end of world is coming.

BTW. Let me ask you something - what do you like about that system? The fact that you are thrown automaticaly in group with strangers, the instant teleport to instance, the time saved by that tool or fact that you don't write anything, just sign in, do your job, "bb", quit.

I think heroic instances need more oneshoting mechanics, so people HAVE to communicate. I just don't understand, how in Azeroth people can't move from aoe in 3 seconds. Ok, let that system stay, but make it more social somehow, maybe reward for going with the same team on next dungeon (hot streak bonus).

[kenoathcarn]

I don't really understand why you go with your character that has the best gear in the game into a one of the starter areas of the end game. What's the point?

I'm limited to 10 character slots per server, and every single one of my characters has this issue.

and as far as why i do it, because blizzard forces me to do it as a source of Valor(if i even choose to run it at all) to upgrade my gear so i can become even more overpowered.

Not to mention I'm basically stuck in this cycle where I'm just farming gear so i can farm more gear later on i cant do anything else with it.

also id like to point out that this doesnt only apply to 5man dungeons, it applies even to the current state of mythic raiding.

Take a loot at the Iron Reaver boss in HFC(and yes i mean mythic), or as we like to call it, the Loot Reaver. he dies in under 25 seconds, he actually dies so fast that he never even uses his abilitys.

so i basically have nothing in the game to do, what have i left to look forward to? maybe i will get a few more warforged pieces if i grind out the instance even more... but to what end? what can i even use this gear for now?

Should i level another alt? keep in mind i have 10 characters at 100 and if i level more it will just be a duplicate class and on another server.

now vanilla wow was by no means perfect, but the pace of the game, the not-so-overpowering emphasis on end-game content gave me other things to do, it was very unlikely for you to even have time to get 2-3 alts in vanilla, let alone one of every class let alone geared.

all these things combined with heavy incentives to group and interact with people outside of just my guild really gave me something the current wow simply doesn't offer, and while this may not be something you want i completely understand anyone who is pro-removal of all these things or pro legacy servers.

[clevin]

I never understood why people want LFG to be removed... who the heck misses 30minute trade chat spam LF TANK...

LFD sure, we don't need it. We can use LFG, form a group as we want it then run to the instance we want to do. Never understood LFD nor BG finder. For BGs we can also revive old BG masters... this way game will become much more social. No more UI button spamming...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1?goto=newpost

That's why. Because if you have to design for random groups being successful you end up with streamlined, dumbed down dungeons. And if you mostly got groups in trade before LFG you were doing it wrong. That's the point of guilds.

LFG and daily quests in dungeons took them from being one of the things you did over the course of a week to something you felt you needed to do daily. It took 5 man design toward the streamlined, not more than 30 minutes model. For people who used to enjoy 5 mans as and endgame activity it's devastated that.

Are the advantages? Sure. Everything is part good and part bad and some of the downside is due to implementation (battlegroup-wide, dailies tied to the dungeons, etc).

- - - Updated - - -

Now when I think about it - LFD came up with easy dungeons. I wonder what would happen if LFD was introduced on TBC and people got MGT hc. There would be so much scream in the air that someone would think that end of world is coming.

Precisely this. You could not have a dungeon like MgT in LFG.

[Deleted]

now vanilla wow was by no means perfect, but the pace of the game, the not-so-overpowering emphasis on end-game content gave me other things to do, it was very unlikely for you to even have time to get 2-3 alts in vanilla, let alone one of every class let alone geared.

all these things combined with heavy incentives to group and interact with people outside of just my guild really gave me something the current wow simply doesn't offer, and while this may not be something you want i completely understand anyone who is pro-removal of all these things or pro legacy servers.

I haven't been playing retail for a year now and was not aware of the valor point grind. For my opinion on this, I ask you to go back one page. As already someone else mentioned, the low difficulty is an additional problem to the cross server tools. I just hope they will go for the pristine servers in legion for a better experience.

[Jessicka]

TL;DR - It is up to players themselves to actually do something and simply just talk to people. But as usual with WoW players, they would rather just QQ about a game feature and blame all their social woes on that. If we go back to having to spam Trade chat for making groups, you'll just revert the game back to WoTLK and everyone having to have the absolute best GearScore/Item Level to do anything and all you'll see is the number and still no actual social interaction between players.

You're bracketing and handwaving 'put in the effort' with the same 'put in the effort' that goes into Mythic raiding. Being sociable is the absolute last fucking thing in the game that should take any effort.

[nathrizarri]

i agree with you mostly but this would counteract to the probleme of content burnout.

If you take the same content and size it down, rewards or not, the majority of the player base gona funneul through it in record time and gonna complain that there is no more content. Blizzard simply can not end that fast new content.


I mean lets say 6.2 would not have not only hfc but also another 13 boss raid. So what? The majority goes thorugh it in lfr also in speed mode and the aspiration for the most part ist killed to progress further.

Adding another raid tier to an existing one will not change anything on problem since ceontent=raid is the problem here.

I believe the reason why people keep saying "we have nothing to do" is they do not like/enjoy other aspects of the game.

So, ideal approach here should be adding another raid?

or bring other content to the level of raiding?

How many people would still raid if you had mythic+ dungeons providing the same rewards/time ratio?

[TCGamer]

They shouldn't remove it.

There's a reason almost every other modern MMO has a similar feature. It's what most people want. Those that do come out without it end up adding it after the player base complains (See: SW:TOR).

It is a reality in modern MMO gaming, those that don't like it should accept that fact and move on.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Groupfinder tool that was added in Warlords is what "LFX" should've been to start with, "LFX" creates lazy people that doesn't communicate much- if any. I personally don't have any issues with "LFX" systems but they should've never been cross realm, when anything becomes cross realm it drastically reduces the chance that you'll meet the same people- meaning people gain more anonymity which we all know creates assholes.

Three things ruined server communities in WoW.
- LFX
- Flying
- Everything being available in main cities

[Deleted]

Groupfinder tool that was added in Warlords is what "LFX" should've been to start with

God, yes. I was actually sort of baffled to see this implemented later than the actual LFD tool because the groupfinder is exactly what I wanted out of Blizzard minus the cross realm feature. A group member has left your group? No need to head to your local capital and spam /2, just enlist your group on group finder and eventually other players will reliably be able to find your group by searching for the specific dungeon/raid. It's an absolute win win. It actually fixed the major gripe which most players present that LFD fixed.

Having to spam /2 and head outside your dungeon to find players etc.

[Traveler Voltin]

Groupfinder tool that was added in Warlords is what "LFX" should've been to start with, "LFX" creates lazy people that doesn't communicate much- if any. I personally don't have any issues with "LFX" systems but they should've never been cross realm, when anything becomes cross realm it drastically reduces the chance that you'll meet the same people- meaning people gain more anonymity which we all know creates assholes.

Three things ruined server communities in WoW.
- LFX
- Flying
- Everything being available in main cities

communities were always bad. it just brought everything to the surface.

[Deleted]

Reading through these opinions, same as on the official forums, you people really seem to hate each other and don't even want to play with other people, especially the veterans. I still think the game made you have these opinions over time, yet on other servers without these tools, people act like normal, where a reputation is important.

[Amerrol]

I'd be fine with the tool if it got rid of cross realm and teleporting. I also wouldn't mind having to spam trade, but I see the appeal of being able to do other stuff while queued. Though the game is too different at this point for this type of change to really matter, I think it would be a step in the right direction.

[Vaelorian]

I'd be fine with the tool if it got rid of cross realm and teleporting. I also wouldn't mind having to spam trade, but I see the appeal of being able to do other stuff while queued. Though the game is too different at this point for this type of change to really matter, I think it would be a step in the right direction.

But this would matter in the face of pristine servers

[Deleted]

I dont mind the LFG System for Dungeons. Tho i agree removing the Teleport feature would be for the better because..you played vanilla wasnt traveling to the dungeon awesome? I loved it..in some cases. Scarlet Monastery as Alliance Player without a Mount tho. Anyway im for the removal of LFR, since it is a waste of Time, especially with Tanaan and HFC the LFR gear is completly useless, a downgrade to the Gear you get from the Jungle and the difficulty is an insult to the Playerbase. Same with the Tool for PuG-Raids. It is almost impossible to find a decent group to clear even HFC Normal in a PuG on an appropiate Itemlvl. Usually you see 700+ for Normal and then still People fail. I feel like they should force(kinda)Players again to put effort in to get better at the Game in General. It´s painfull to watch some People fail at the most simplistic and easy Encounter-Mechanics and Class Rotations. I could go on about gearing up and "Casuals" want to have all the Gear the mythic Raiders have because they pay for it too but that´ll turn into a shitstorm. Anyway that are my general thoughts about this, excuse my bad english/grammar it is not my native tongue.

[Gilgameshh]

I never had any issues with getting a group via /trade or otherwise. I do remember that during when the tool was implemented, we all cheered! No longer would it be "inconvenient" to make a group. People were very happy with that tool.

I was cheering until I experienced it the first few times. I can't articulate the feeling I had very well, but I will say that queuing for a dungeon took away a lot of the fun. Some people were and still are assholes who can get away with doing and saying anything, others were miserably bad or constantly AFK, almost everyone was quiet throughout the run... it just didn't feel like I was playing alongside other people (nothing has changed on that front), and the social interaction is probably 90% of why I ever enjoyed WoW in the first place. You could replace the people you queue up with, with NPCs, and I think the experience for most people would be almost identical. If all you want is to get in and out of the dungeon/raid as fast as possible, doesn't that dungeon/raid just start feeling like a chore to you? I'm not saying it's solely the fault of LFG/group finder, but it's certainly a big offender.

Convenience makes sense when we're talking about mages and warlocks no longer having to individually create their (now obsolete) consumables. It makes sense when we're talking about paladin buffs only lasting for 5-10 minutes. It doesn't make sense when we start chipping away parts of the game that made it feel like an epic journey, and for me and so many others, group finder/LFG has done just that: remove part of the epic journey.

The game today is designed specifically for those who want as much convenience as possible. All of the whining and bitching from the casual, entitled community that only plays for a few months out of the year anyway, has culminated into this miserable excuse for an expansion. As it turns out, the game is no longer fun when everything can be done for you with a couple presses of a button. It's not fun when you don't have to interact with other people. The first few dozen times I had to find a group in WoW my heart was racing because I didn't know if I would get invited, if the group would be good enough to clear, if the people would be friendly... and I know that feeling of excitement/anxiety actually hasn't gone away because I experienced it again on Nostalrius. If you want to play with people you don't have to talk to, why even bother with an MMO?

LFG/group finder is also slowly killing server identity and the need for a guild (which some might argue isn't a bad thing, but again, why are you playing an MMO? not everyone has an established group of friends). It allows people to act without consequence in a toxic environment that will never change because that's the way it's designed. There is no forum that will ever exist to blacklist the assholes or leaches.

Long story short, I think LFG/group finder was a huge mistake. I would have much preferred they merged realms so that people stopped having such problems finding groups. Yes, it would always create difficulties for some if I had it my way, but that's why I think the pristine server idea has the potential to give both sides of the community an opportunity to enjoy the game.