[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Dreyen]

Mastery nerf is likely

They could also nerf our damage reduction. Mastery can definitley work. if we gear mastery and reach 100%hp/healing received, and have 6mil hp while a warrior has 3mil... if a warrior takes 1mil damage we need to take 2mil to be even... plus we take double healing so its the same difficulty to heal back.

The problem is magic damage: they can't exactly make us take that much more magical damage... I guess it'll just end up being our strenght. They could nerf us to 0% magic DR and warriors stay at 25% magic DR, but if we have double the hp, a 1million magical hit at 6mil hp is 1/6th of our hp, while it's going to be 750k/3mil for warriors which is 1/4th of their HP.

I'm also pretty sure our damage and rage of the sleeper will get nerfed. Possibly boomkin affinity: it almost deals more damage than DPS.

[xskarma]

Designer notes say that everyone should be in same ball park now. Will be VERY interesting to compare things when we can log in again. We'll quickly notice what the situation is and what changes might have been made.

[dcc626]

Mastery nerf is likely

They could also nerf our damage reduction. Mastery can definitley work. if we gear mastery and reach 100%hp/healing received, and have 6mil hp while a warrior has 3mil... if a warrior takes 1mil damage we need to take 2mil to be even... plus we take double healing so its the same difficulty to heal back.

The problem is magic damage: they can't exactly make us take that much more magical damage... I guess it'll just end up being our strenght. They could nerf us to 0% magic DR and warriors stay at 25% magic DR, but if we have double the hp, a 1million magical hit at 6mil hp is 1/6th of our hp, while it's going to be 750k/3mil for warriors which is 1/4th of their HP.

I'm also pretty sure our damage and rage of the sleeper will get nerfed. Possibly boomkin affinity: it almost deals more damage than DPS.

is our damage that much above everyone currently? RotS seems a likely nerf though. hope they dont go overboard...

[Dreyen]

Bears do more damage than like 85% of dps specs I'm pretty sure.

[xskarma]

Moonfire change and mastery nerf (no one surprised there). Wonder what that means for the rest of the tanks.

[Dreyen]

Well there you go, mastery went from 16% to 8%, so cut in half.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

ye, outta nowhere though, what a surprise.
Moonfire nerf means an indirect nerf to boomkin dps too right? (moonfire scales in moonkin form I believe? not 100 % sure)
That moonfire DOT damage is worthless though. Wow, went from 480% of SP to 50% SP?

[Dreyen]

i think thats a datamine error, if you look at the text it says it went from 60% to 50%. There's no way it's only 50% for the whole dot lol... it's probably 8 ticks of 50% sp cause 8x60 = 480%

Also we haven't been heavily dps nerfed... and other tanks got substantial dps buffs from 20% to 100% buffs. I'm guessing bear dps is mostly where Blizzard wants it.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Nah, you're probably right about the moonfire dot partial there. 480 -> 50 was the nerf I was talking about.
Changes seem reasonable. Buffing the others intrigues me. This means they want tanks to do viable raid damage as a dps?
Because that's what we'll be seeing right? Guardians are middle of the pack dps compared to other dps at this point. Warrior changes seem to increase their AOE dps to that of a dps too. etc....

[Nevcairiel]

Changes seem reasonable. Buffing the others intrigues me. This means they want tanks to do viable raid damage as a dps?

They did say once that there is no reason for a tank to be at 30-40% of the DPS of a proper DPSer only, targeting 70-80% seems appropriate and allows tanks to quest much easier - which falls in line with their philosophy of wanting all players to be able to solo properly (leveling, max level farming, etc), including tanks and healers.

At the end of the day tanks should still be at the bottom of the pile, all things being equal, but not by much. So its likely a good tank might also outdps a bad DPSer at that point.

[ikewu83]

I care about dps more than survival, but pally seems more dps than bear in current build, especially counts the AS related legenedaris.

[Deleted]

If you want bears to work with a massive health pool and more healing received, they need to take more damage. Tuning has not happened yet and we will get nerfed and other tanks buffed.

that said, I'm pretty sure paladins and warriors have better passive damage reduction than we do. Not talking about armor but things like defensive stance reducing damage by X%

I am sure bears will have the highest passive mitigation of all tanks.

You already have 10% damage reduction from thick hide + 10% damage reduction from adaptive fur (It is up 100% of the time in a boss fight) same armor or a bit higher than others and 70%-80% more hp in late game. (nature's guardian will reach around 40%-45% late game after the nerf) . I think that's blizzard's sole idea- to make sure bears are the sturdiest tanks in terms of Effective health. But when you take into account cooldowns this is when others catch up.

[Neversage]

How much did your HP change with the mastery nerf? Trying to get an idea of how much of an impact mastery has to overall health.

[Findme]

Am i the only one worried about the lack of an ability to interrupt on range?

Faerie Fire with the interrupt glyph was one of my most important skills throughout playing guardian. Now it's gone and there is no replacement for that

It was so important in dungeons and in CMs to be able to pull casters to you without having to need to run up to them or lose threat from it from heal aggro

[Neversage]

Am i the only one worried about the lack of an ability to interrupt on range?

Faerie Fire with the interrupt glyph was one of my most important skills throughout playing guardian. Now it's gone and there is no replacement for that

It was so important in dungeons and in CMs to be able to pull casters to you without having to need to run up to them or lose threat from it from heal aggro

Incap Roar can serve some of the same function. I tanked HM, BRF, HFC and all dungeons and never once had FF interrupt. You just have to move around more.

[Nerxyrall]

Incap Roar can serve some of the same function. I tanked HM, BRF, HFC and all dungeons and never once had FF interrupt. You just have to move around more.

I think he is refering to dungeons not raids.
And yes when i tanked dungeons in Wod i really liked the second interrupt as well. But in higher difficulties you can expect somebody else intterupting and in easy content it doesnt really matter.

[Dreyen]

I think he is refering to dungeons not raids.
And yes when i tanked dungeons in Wod i really liked the second interrupt as well. But in higher difficulties you can expect somebody else intterupting and in easy content it doesnt really matter.

Except it doesn't work like that for Mythic+. If you have one less tool in your toolkit it just means you're weaker.

[Rivin]

that said, I'm pretty sure paladins and warriors have better passive damage reduction than we do. Not talking about armor but things like defensive stance reducing damage by X%

Defensive Stance doesn't reduce damage taken in Legion. Actually, looking through the other tanks' spells, none of the others have a passive damage reduction except what comes from their artifacts (note: Defensive Stance and Sanctuary both still say "Reduces damage taken by 0%", which is usually a tooltip error, but the spell details confirm it's actually 0%).

- - - Updated - - -

Am i the only one worried about the lack of an ability to interrupt on range?

Faerie Fire with the interrupt glyph was one of my most important skills throughout playing guardian. Now it's gone and there is no replacement for that

It was so important in dungeons and in CMs to be able to pull casters to you without having to need to run up to them or lose threat from it from heal aggro

Every tank except paladins are losing their ranged silences as well, so Blizzard will have to design dungeons around not having them anymore. If you're worried about losing aggro just throw a Moonfire on them and that should easily hold them until you can get into range.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Incap Roar can serve some of the same function. I tanked HM, BRF, HFC and all dungeons and never once had FF interrupt. You just have to move around more.

Balance affinity makes interrupt yards I believe.

[Delimit]

Balance affinity makes interrupt yards I believe.

It does. It increases the Skull Bash charge range out to 18 yards.