[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Bearshield]

How much did your HP change with the mastery nerf? Trying to get an idea of how much of an impact mastery has to overall health.

Anyone have an answer to this person's question? I'd like to know as well. I'm also curious about the individual who posted about rage gen issues today on the alpha forum. Is this a new issue or perhaps something that player was doing wrong? First I've heard of any rage issues on alpha.

[Bunnychaser]

Anyone have an answer to this person's question? I'd like to know as well. I'm also curious about the individual who posted about rage gen issues today on the alpha forum. Is this a new issue or perhaps something that player was doing wrong? First I've heard of any rage issues on alpha.

I believe I went from ~3.4m to 2572k now. With the legendary bracers, I'm currently at 2719k in bear form. The legendary chest puts me at 2859k.

I'm currently using full mastery gear still, with three pieces away from full heroic dungeon 825 gear, at 809 ilvl. (My trinkets bring this number down quite a bit, using two 770 trinkets.)

I'd expect with the current scaling about 3.5m hp for a bear stacking mastery w/ a fully geared artifact pre-raid... In dungeon gear. (I only have 14 points, with each point being .75% stam.) You could probably punch in around 3.8 million or so with stamina/mastery trinkets.

Add onto that the fact that you're probably going to have quite a few boes or raid pieces from the various sources (heroic upgrades, ring from dal vendor, etc.); I'd imagine we'll be sitting 4-4.3m or so HP when the raid finally comes out, and we'll be around 835 ilvl.




This is all just me estimating. No promises on accuracy on any of this.

[Selerian]

Hey guys, Boomy here thinking of going Bear in Legion. Could you give me your general impressions on the current state of Guardian in Alpha? I don't want any super specific and detailed stuff, just a ballpark estimation on whether it's effective and fun compared to the other tanking classes, with effectiveness being what I'm mostly interested in.

PS: I don't actually have the time to go through all 50 of the pages of the thread. I have watched a couple of reviewing videos, but the more opinions the better. Thanx.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Hey guys, Boomy here thinking of going Bear in Legion. Could you give me your general impressions on the current state of Guardian in Alpha? I don't want any super specific and detailed stuff, just a ballpark estimation on whether it's effective and fun compared to the other tanking classes, with effectiveness being what I'm mostly interested in.

PS: I don't actually have the time to go through all 50 of the pages of the thread. I have watched a couple of reviewing videos, but the more opinions the better. Thanx.

Can't talk about fun factor. But viability is good. We're in a solid spot. OVerall good, and well rounded.

[Deleted]

I made calculations and here is a comparison between all tanks in terms of hp and armor. I have used baseline numbers so it's easier to do the math. I have taken into account all talents + abilities + artifact traits BUT no cooldowns activated. Just pure effective health from passives. Please don't question my math I did spent a lot of time. I have taken into consideration leather vs plate armor as well as the fact that Pallys and Warrs have shields and they have + 20% to armor from their artifact built-up bonuses rather than the + 10% to total hp like other tanks. That's why their armor is highest.


Guardian druid : HP - 22 500, armor 5100 (-10% damage taken from thick hide)
Warrior : HP - 14500, armor 5600
Paladin : HP - 12200 , armor 5600 (30% more armor when less than 30%hp)
Death Knight: HP - 15000, armor 4000 (20% less damage taken when less 35%)
Vengeance DH HP- 15000, armor 4700
Monk HP- 13500, armor 1600

These are the values. I have taken into consideration every single thing which gives passive hp, armor increase. Also bear in mind that's considering raid gear. (Guardian druids have 50% bonus to hp from mastery here and I believe this is only reachable mid-raid , late-raid content).

Guardian is clearly the top tank in terms of passive mitigation and that's how it should be... Bears are bears after all and they should be sturdiest by default.
You should know that when things like block and masteries, abilities, self healing and stuff come into turn things will be much different and will look balanced.
For example Guardians are 40%-50% more durable than other tanks by default BUT plate tanks can block. DK's and Vengeance and Monks have their techniques too.

Paladins seem really low on the chart but don't forget they have an artifact talent called Faith's armor which increases their armor by 30% when under 40% hp. Dk's have Will of the Necropolis which works similarly. And yet Guardians are still above cuz they have their passive -10% damage taken from thick hide which no other tank seems to have as a passive.

I have to say I am pretty happy with this and how things loook. All in all Druids will be 40% more durable in raw stats but other tank's masteries will even that.

Druids are so much more durable because their mastery is 100% related to their passive mitigation. Other tanks' mastery on the other hand is related to active mitigation/healing/avoidance. This means one thing - druids will be one of the most noob friendly tanks but also not very fun to play. Indeed their mastery is a bit boring.

[huth]

Balance affinity makes interrupt yards I believe.

AFAIK, it increases the range of just about everything that has one. They even gave Guardian and Feral AoEs a range just so it can be increased.

Death Knight: HP - 15000, armor 4000 (20% less damage taken when less 35%)

This one is a bit complicated: The reduction applies to all damage(but no other) below 35%, including that of hits taken at more than 35% health.

So if the DK has more than 35% health, it first applies enough of that damage to bring him down to 35%, then reduces the remainder by 20% before application. If he's already at or below 35%, it just gets reduced.

That gives him an additional 8.75% effective health. Effectively a crappier Thick Hide.

[Neversage]

AFAIK, it increases the range of just about everything that has one. They even gave Guardian and Feral AoEs a range just so it can be increased.


This one is a bit complicated: The reduction applies to all damage(but no other) below 35%, including that of hits taken at more than 35% health.

So if the DK has more than 35% health, it first applies enough of that damage to bring him down to 35%, then reduces the remainder by 20% before application. If he's already at or below 35%, it just gets reduced.

That gives him an additional 8.75% effective health. Effectively a crappier Thick Hide.

It's honestly quite clever how they use things like that to balance tanks with one another. This is the aspect of theorycrafting that makes me appreciate the care put into the game's design, despite its more overt faults.

[Ausr]

Disco Bear talent proc chance up to 50% from 5% it looks like.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Disco Bear talent proc chance up to 50% from 5% it looks like.

HAs to be a bug. Someone mistyped just before launching the build or something.

[Ausr]

HAs to be a bug. Someone mistyped just before launching the build or something.

Nope, it is 50% on the alpha server. Logged in to check.

Oh, by the way, it is fucking amazing. DISCO BALLS EVERYWHERE!

[Ooshraxa]

HAs to be a bug. Someone mistyped just before launching the build or something.

This. Since it procs on all kinds of damage, the fireworks have to be spectacular
Someone make a video, I'd love to see it

[ryudaraku]

Nope, it is 50% on the alpha server. Logged in to check.

Oh, by the way, it is fucking amazing. DISCO BALLS EVERYWHERE!

So what you are saying is "PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!"

[Ausr]

So what you are saying is "PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!"

Pretty much. No one better say a god damn thing about this on the forums.

[Deleted]

Galatic Guardian with a 50% proc chance on any damage we deal. Thats just stupid and i love it. No way it stays this way, especially if it procs of itself, the rage generation would be insane.

[Adramelch]

Galatic Guardian with a 50% proc chance on any damage we deal. Thats just stupid and i love it. No way it stays this way, especially if it procs of itself, the rage generation would be insane.

"Galactic Guardian can trigger from any damage that is not a proc, and not Moonfire DoT ticks themselves (so it can’t extend virtually forever)."

Based on that I doubt it'll proc of itself.

[Ooshraxa]

Galatic Guardian with a 50% proc chance on any damage we deal. Thats just stupid and i love it. No way it stays this way, especially if it procs of itself, the rage generation would be insane.

Which is why I want someone to make a VOD

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Which is why I want someone to make a VOD

PLs someone AOE 50 mobs on alpha and record it PLEASE

[huth]

"Galactic Guardian can trigger from any damage that is not a proc, and not Moonfire DoT ticks themselves (so it can’t extend virtually forever)."

Based on that I doubt it'll proc of itself.

Not that it matters.

[Ooshraxa]

PLs someone AOE 50 mobs on alpha and record it PLEASE

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiis! The Über-Lazorbear needs to be preserved for all eternity.

[Deleted]

"Galactic Guardian can trigger from any damage that is not a proc, and not Moonfire DoT ticks themselves (so it can’t extend virtually forever)."

Based on that I doubt it'll proc of itself.

So it can't proc from the automatic free moonfires nor the ticks but what about the initial moonfire dmg from the one you cast to get the rage?