Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[CaptainV]

Has the game become too Raid-centric and basically made raiding and with legion dungeon content the only real relevent end game thus far? Yes.

Has it become casual friendly? Hell no.

Wrath was Casual Friendly, you had a difficulty curve "just" hard enough that there was a challenge, but it was accessable and community welcoming allowing people to actually join raids for the first time when TBC was "exclusivly" 1% of the playerbases playground at the expense of the 99%.

You want to blame anything on the problem? Blame raiding, we have 4 tiers of difficulty because heroic wasnt hard enough for an angry minority and LFR wasnt easy enough for a lazy majority, neither are right, both, are wrong.

We dont need 4 difficulties of raids, or 5 tiers of god damn Dungeons.

Normal dungeons, were for leveling.

Heroic dungeons, were for gearing.

Normal raiding, was for casuals that liked doing normal difficulty content.

Heroic raiding, was for hardcores, that liked difficult challenging raids and wanted to actually suffer to get the best victory.

"That" was the best god damn system WoW ever had and frankly we have abused it into oblivion with Mythic and Challenge Mode bullcrap which has honestly done ALOT more damage to this game than helped it.

The "catering" is a load of bollocks, the real issue is that two very specific groups are to blame, the far left who dont want ANY challenge and want to be rewarded for sitting in a Garrison, and the far RIGHT that want content ONLY they can access and nobody else has a claim on it.

You are both the reason this game is dying, theres no casualization, the issue is, "you".

Theres a good portion of the player base that wanted a easy/normal raid difficulty that was just hard enough that it could wipe you, but easy enough that you could learn it fairly quickly and play it mostly for fun. That group is completley ignored because we get told "normal" (which is basically difficult only because of a gear wall) is our difficulty curve now.

We've had to be content with that for 3 god damn expansions now, and a 4th one is comming which will yet again constantly screw up the wheel by adding yet more difficulties, and yet more pointless content for the pointless people.

Why even BOTHER doing heroic dungeons anymore when Mythic is CLEARLY going to be the focus of end game raiding?

Why even HAVE A mythic mode when your clearly adding a new version of Challenge Mode for those looking for actual difficulty?

What, is, the god damn, point?

Its no wonder, people get burned out of content when they are repeating the same damn raid nearly 6 months with "nothing" versitile to offer the game at all, no pvp, world pvp, no world pve content that actually gives relevent progression outside of raiding and dungeons.

No crafting content because all the crafting is blocked by pointless trivial "only 3 pieces per character" bollocks which honestly trivialises using it as a progression at all. The game offers you "one" road to the inevitable path of raiding, do anything that helps you get gear, for raiding.

Raiding, is whats killed this game, not casualization, casualisation is what gave it a damn 12.5 million subs during Wrath, when things were exactly as they should have been, world content, dungeon content, raid content, pvp content, and crafting content, were, relevent.

Everyone had "something" to do.

Thats the problem, not this bollocks on the game being too casual, not the rubbish that its not hard enough, but the fact that theres two audiences that just cant be pleased because both are as malcontent as the other which makes it literally impossible to hit a middle ground.

What the game needs to survive is a return to the old 2 tier difficulty system so that "other" content can get attention than raiding and dungeons.

[Velerios]

Sorry, but WoD was the expansion that has the biggest problem by LISTENING to the upper 1% of HARDCORE-Player:

0 Casual content; and no, casual-player never asked for a facebook-game in garrisons, they also want to do something, and surely not FILL BAR-Quest No. 1895330e1. MoP had one of the best questing and endgame-experience (even through leveling-quests was in WoD at least on par with MoP), problem was only: PANDAS!!!!!11111oneeleven and gating valor-gear behind daily-factions. If they had done WoD with an endgame like MoP and not gated valor-gear behind daily-factions, we wouldn't had the problems WoW has now.

Instead like they listened they gave us a good questing-experience and really good raids.

So personally I think trying to please the HARDCORE-Community is the biggest problem wow has!

[McFuu]

The problem is that Blizzard have serious competition now.. Back when they released WoW there were not that many MMO's now with nearly 300 of them out there and they will do what they can to keep in their game going, ie the money rolling in..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...-playing_games

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm

Just to give you an idea of what they are up against..

I disagree. There may be more MMOs out there, but they are mostly shit. When WoW first came out it had numerous big name MMOs to compete against, Everquest, SW galaxies, Ultima Online, even Ragnarok online was decent competition. Now there may be more MMOs, but they are complete write-offs. The biggest ones are SW which honestly sucks, FF which is good, but not great and not nearly as good as WoW currently is, Rift which would be better if they could just make the game not play and perform like hell...

How many major MMOs have come and gone while WoW remains. There is a long list of WoW killers, and none of them are still around.

OT:
No casuals aren't destroying the game, if anything most OG WoW players are driving the systems that are most panned. People have lives and can't dump 20+ hours that they used to 10 years ago.

[Deleted]

Sorry, but WoD was the expansion that has the biggest problem by LISTENING to the upper 1% of HARDCORE-Player:

0 Casual content; and no, casual-player never asked for a facebook-game in garrisons, they also want to do something, and surely not FILL BAR-Quest No. 1895330e1. MoP had one of the best questing and endgame-experience (even through leveling-quests was in WoD at least on par with MoP), problem was only: PANDAS!!!!!11111oneeleven and gating valor-gear behind daily-factions. If they had done WoD with an endgame like MoP and not gated valor-gear behind daily-factions, we wouldn't had the problems WoW has now.

Instead like they listened they gave us a good questing-experience and really good raids.

So personally I think trying to please the HARDCORE-Community is the biggest problem wow has!

Fuck off with "Hardcore" being a descriptor for raiding. Raiding was never hardcore after the race for the world first... every guild chipped away at the bosses at their own speed. There are some guilds who get to the end boss on the highest difficulty, but the majority get's about 75% of the raid content done.

What Blizzard did and still does wrong is funneling the playerbase into one small continent and make all the rest of the content irrelevant.
If they raised the max level every other expansion they would keep double the content semi-relevant and challenging. If they get a grip on tuning and not bloating their iLevel anymore with that model they could get to faster expansion, since they don't need as much content because the last expansion still offers you content that can help you.

[Equoowe]

Now if I started playing, I would just jump into raid finder and beat it on easy mode for gear that looks exactly the same as the gear the Mythic raiders get. I would be able to finish the game in a month if not weeks. And people wonder why no one wants to play anymore?

The LFR gear is not the same model or even set (it looks garbage and is garbage), they are not the same as Normal/Heroic and then Mythic has it's own model.

[Chipskunk]

Is casualization single handedly the biggest reason for people leaving world of warcraft in unprecedented numbers?

True or false.

maybe? making things easy and accessible for everyone is a good thing in some regards. but then again boredom sets in quick

[Deleted]

The LFR gear is not the same model or even set (it looks garbage and is garbage), they are not the same as Normal/Heroic and then Mythic has it's own model.

So what? He fucking beat Archimonde... why beat him again and again with "just higher numbers" (yes I know and mechanics)?
Would it be a disaster to the game if LFR only gave you the first 50% of the raid, normal 75%, heroic 90% (basically everything but the endboss) and only mythic with 100%?
Or would it lead to people trying for higher difficulty? At the moment a new expansion is announced, you basically know: There won't be too much new content anymore... why bother gearing up if it's irrelevant 6 hours into the next expansion?
While the content is still fresh and you can hope for a new raid tier, where you gear can really help you it's clearly different.

[Schattenlied]

Yes and no... a lot of the features that casualized the game were unpopular... but that just means those specific features were unpopular... They could have done it in a different way that maybe wouldn't have been an issue.


The biggest reason, I would say, is the massive gaping chasm that is the lack of content... There is no reason to stay if there is nothing interesting to do.

[Deleted]

100% false the biggest problem is the perceived lack of content, which is totally an individual thing, having played since the beginning I can honestly say there has never been an instance where I have had nothing to do, I have never unsubbed or ever been disappointed by an expac. I have been mildly irritated by class changes at time, but nothing ever worth throwing a tantrum over.

[Equoowe]

So what?

Just pointing out that he is wrong, if your going to make an argument about everybody getting the same gear probably best to get the facts right.

He fucking beat Archimonde... why beat him again and again with "just higher numbers" (yes I know and mechanics)?

Idk about you but I do it because it's fun and I like the challenge.

[Deleted]

Just pointing out that he is wrong, if your going to make an argument about everybody getting the same gear probably best to get the facts right.

Idk about you but I do it because it's fun and I like the challenge.

Fun is very subjective and challenging? Maybe if you get 20 friends who don't care about getting the boss down... otherwise you are practically forced to use addons that tell you what to press when and when to move where... not really a challenge if you don't watch Netflix at the same time.

[nathrizarri]

There was already challenge for dedicated players. Raiding took a huge spot on this challenge that kept them busy for a long time.

Casual players were the backbone of the WoW. They were pushed into raiding as an only option for endgame which they did not enjoy and fun ended with that.

[Echocho]

CRZ, too easy versions of all content, gear inflation, meaningless professions, power creep, little to no time investment requirement. Take your pick.

[Kuntantee]

100% false the biggest problem is the perceived lack of content

You got it all wrong mate. There isn't much content, at least in WoD. It is your perception that is set up in such way that you perceive there is always a content, when there isn't. I mean, if a player tries hard enough, he/she can consider breathing in front of computer while sitting idly in Orgrimmar as a content. I am inclined to believe you are one of those types. The perfect customer, existence of monitor is a content to them!

[Equoowe]

Fun is very subjective and challenging? Maybe if you get 20 friends who don't care about getting the boss down... otherwise you are practically forced to use addons that tell you what to press when and when to move where.

You aren't forced to use any addon, not even the popular boss mods, the game already gives you the info and other then one paladin addon they don't really tell to what to do.

not really a challenge if you don't watch Netflix at the same time.

The best players in the world would say WoD has had some of the hardest boss fights ever but yea no challenge...

[Deleted]

You aren't forced to use any addon, not even the popular boss mods, the game already gives you the info and other then one paladin addon they don't really tell to what to do.

The best players in the world would say WoD has had some of the hardest boss fights ever but yea no challenge...

I said practically forced, and that the game tells you most of these things should be proof enough of it being a massive casual fest. If I need sound or a written warning to notice the fucking spell effect under my feet, I'm mentally challenged and should not be able to play this game!
I can find addons for nearly any class that show me the spell to press in the middle of the screen... or I lookup a castsequence makro to press one button.

Hardest fights? 1st of july was the release, archimonde was down at the 16th... WoW lasted about 14 days...
What does Kael'Thas say? Dead by 26th of May... release January 15th... 130 days... give them 2 months prep time... still 70 days! THAT was a hard fight!

[Deleted]

Yes. Absolutely, it's a huge problem.
There's not enough focus on it.

[Allenseiei]

That is exactly the same problem,
No, the "casualisation" is simply a fabrication from people upset that they were never the sole audience.
If anything the mythic plus format is giving them more, but they opt not to see it.
Because that would give them one less thing to whine about not having.

Mythic + is definitively a step in the right direction. One of the features I really hope picks up a lot of people.
Casualization of WoW has been talked about ever since 3.0 and how it was going to be a problem in the long run. While some predictions back then have not been met, one big and important one has: The feel of lack of content. What I understand behind the word "casualization" is the implantation of "easy and accessible" content and rewards. Why is this a problem? The longevity of the content becomes reduced by a lot.
We already saw this back in ICC and ToC in WotLK when blizzard KNEW that the new "easier" difficulty, normal mode, was going to be chewed through instantly and they time gated the release of wings.

[TCGamer]

So what? He fucking beat Archimonde... why beat him again and again with "just higher numbers" (yes I know and mechanics)?
Would it be a disaster to the game if LFR only gave you the first 50% of the raid, normal 75%, heroic 90% (basically everything but the endboss) and only mythic with 100%?
Or would it lead to people trying for higher difficulty? At the moment a new expansion is announced, you basically know: There won't be too much new content anymore... why bother gearing up if it's irrelevant 6 hours into the next expansion?
While the content is still fresh and you can hope for a new raid tier, where you gear can really help you it's clearly different.

People wouldn't try for the higher difficulty. That much was proven by the early Cata heroics. People didn't try to improve, many just quit/gave up.

Also, the answer to the OP is false.

[Equoowe]

I said practically forced, and that the game tells you most of these things should be proof enough of it being a massive casual fest. If I need sound or a written warning to notice the fucking spell effect under my feet, I'm mentally challenged and should not be able to play this game!
I can find addons for nearly any class that show me the spell to press in the middle of the screen... or I lookup a castsequence makro to press one button.

All this stuff you mention was in Vanilla and TBC but you didn't really need a cast sequence macro when you just spam one spell.

Those addons that flash the spell to use aren't common place in Mythic guilds, they aren't very good.

Hardest fights? 1st of july was the release, archimonde was down at the 16th... WoW lasted about 14 days...
What does Kael'Thas say? Dead by 26th of May... release January 15th... 130 days... give them 2 months prep time... still 70 days! THAT was a hard fight!

It's almost like you don't understand that progression has changed and the guilds at the top have changed, You know the guild Method? multiple players in Method have said Archimonde Mythic is the one of hardest bosses ever if not the hardest, harder then anything in Vanilla or TBC but what would they know, it's not like they played back then, oh wait they did...