Protection legion Discussion

[Murlocbait]

Maybe if Celestalon were to say "hey, Rage from damage taken is great, you're just too noob to use it" we'd know there'd be a change within 24 hours.

I think he learned his lesson. Easier to ignore it and just stick to internal agreements on what works and is fun, without regard to what your players say/want.

[Zasriel]

Artifact Trait Status – Mechanics are firm at this point, but not necessarily set in stone. An initial tuning pass is still ongoing. Some noteworthy changes include:

Sigh... Better get excited to play my DH next xpac..

[Marok]

Nothing new in this build except some icon changes and tuning. They did fix Might of the Vykrul so that's a plus I guess. I think it's safe to say Prot Warriors are finished in regards to abilities, talents, rage gen, etc.

[Breccia]

I think they also removed the 8-yard minimum range for Intercepting an ally. That's something.

[Deleted]

I think they also removed the 8-yard minimum range for Intercepting an ally. That's something.

that's actually a pretty large QoL change. Makes it a lot easier to get some emergency rage. I like it.

Anyone know what glyph of the Custom Armorer does btw? It says: Instead of the faction shield you use a random shield from your Backpack. Dare i hope that is for the shield wall and spell reflect animation?

[Ashenia]

Time to wait for next exp to sort the issues? I doubt we will get anything anymore. It is sad seeing DK channel ability when they can move and we r rooted. Guess time to find better way of pushing changes or prepared for being annoyed later in tier <rage, ip>... or reroll OP druids.

[Breccia]

They did fix Might of the Vykrul so that's a plus I guess. .

How? I can't see any changes.

[Marok]

How? I can't see any changes.

Before this build, when you casted Demo Shout, there was a ~2-3 second delay before you actually got the buff that increased your rage gen. Now you get the buff as soon as you cast Demo Shout. It's just a small bug fix.

[Breccia]

Before this build, when you casted Demo Shout, there was a ~2-3 second delay before you actually got the buff that increased your rage gen. Now you get the buff as soon as you cast Demo Shout. It's just a small bug fix.

Ah. Here I was hoping you meant "they realized the entire idea was stupid and replaced it". But yes, I've heard of that annoying bug, and I'm glad that's been resolved.

EDIT: Or do I speak out of turn? I'm just not that excited about an artifact ability that, if I line up my attacks correctly, could potentially grant 25 Rage when there's a talent at level 90 that grants 50 no matter what, plus +20% damage as a bonus. I know you can have both etc. but it still seems weak with that kind of direct comparison. Say what you want about Dragon Scales being random, that +30 Rage is very likely going to happen at least once per 90 seconds, and you could just bank it with no loss. But maybe I'm reading that ability wrong. Is anyone here so stoked about the new, bugfixed Might of the Vrykul that they're going straight out of the gate towards it? And if so, what am I missing? Point it out, give me something to be excited about, it's Friday dammit.

[Marok]

Ah. Here I was hoping you meant "they realized the entire idea was stupid and replaced it". But yes, I've heard of that annoying bug, and I'm glad that's been resolved.

EDIT: Or do I speak out of turn? I'm just not that excited about an artifact ability that, if I line up my attacks correctly, could potentially grant 25 Rage when there's a talent at level 90 that grants 50 no matter what, plus +20% damage as a bonus. I know you can have both etc. but it still seems weak with that kind of direct comparison. Say what you want about Dragon Scales being random, that +30 Rage is very likely going to happen at least once per 90 seconds, and you could just bank it with no loss. But maybe I'm reading that ability wrong. Is anyone here so stoked about the new, bugfixed Might of the Vrykul that they're going straight out of the gate towards it? And if so, what am I missing? Point it out, give me something to be excited about, it's Friday dammit.

Yep, I agree, it's by far our most boring artifact trait and it's most likely the trait people are going to go for last. However, just playing devil's advocate here, having a trait that you control rather than it being RNG definitely has its advantages. Imagine a situation where you need to build up some rage for an incoming boss mechanic. Pop Demo Shout, hit SS + Rev, now you probably have enough rage to pop an IP, potentially saving your life. I do think it needs to buffed though. If it doubled the rage gen of SS/Rev, one cast of each would be enough for an IP, that's pretty strong. But yea, overall, it's a boring and weak trait in its current state. Nothing to get excited about unfortunately.

[Breccia]

Yep, I agree, it's by far our most boring artifact trait and it's most likely the trait people are going to go for last. However, just playing devil's advocate here, having a trait that you control rather than it being RNG definitely has its advantages.

Double-edged sword. Like my tanking weapon.

It's controllable, and yes if you do pop Demo Shout, you probably also want Rage. Problem is, it encourages
a) holding back on Shield Slam and/or Revenge a bit while you wait for those last few seconds to tick by, and/or
b) using Demo Shout as a Rage builder, rather than its original purpose.

Neither one is horrible by any stretch, don't get me wrong. But it's the same deal as Booming Voice. I can see the temptation to use it during Bloodlust for the damage boost, but feeling bad about not reserving it for an emergency. Again, especially with the +30 max rage from the artifact path leading up to Dragon Scales, I'd be tempted instead to just assume I'll get the bonus +30 Rage at least once in 90 seconds, and just save it for Demo Shout, but know I have the option to burn it earlier if I want.

At least Might of the Boring isn't a choice that costs you other things, other than the order in which you get them. I'll take it eventually, but I'm in no hurry.

[Beardyface]

Aha! I found the old IP formula:

Ignore 90% of the next (Total Health * 20 / 100) (based on maximum health) you take from any sources.

God, that's so much better than it is now. So much synergy. No scaling problems. /sigh

Also going to keep repeating this until it catches on:

1. Revert IP to the above formula: Ignore 90% of the next (Total Health * 20 / 100) (based on maximum health) you take from any sources.
2. Change the rage from damage taken formula to (50 * Damage Taken) / (60 * Stamina).
3. Change Toughness and Indomitable to health increases rather than stamina increases.

If the devs do this, they can call thier work on these issues mostly done for the expansion. If they Ignore this, they should prepare to have to constantly re-tune rage and IP scaling a few times each tier. That is, assuming they care about tank balance, which I'm starting to wonder if they do at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting:

Any chance we could get the intended procrates/chances on:

Dragon Scales (Prot Warrior artifact trait)
Scales of Earth (Prot Warrior artifact trait)

Dragon Scales is 0.85*Haste RPPM on Blocking. (Likely to change to a % chance when we get to tuning.)
Scales of the Earth always triggers, not a chance. (Likely to change to have additional triggering of the effect extend instead of refresh when we get to tuning.)

I forgot to cite my source. This is pasted word-for-word from Celestalon:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...16?page=13#254

[FenixAU]

100% chance for Scales of Earth is fantastic.

[Beardyface]

100% chance for Scales of Earth is fantastic.

Yeah. That means if you block even one attack before Neltharion's Fury is interrupted you're guaranteed a 30% increase in armor. Not sure how long it lasts, though. It's missing from the tooltip.

[FenixAU]

I mean, even if the % chance is low on Dragon Scales, it'll be pretty solid after the (likely) change thanks to Shield Block. With multiple targets, you're almost certainly going to be rocking some excellent Ignore Pains from it. I'm imagining a Dragon Scales procced low-HP Never Surrender Ignore Pain.... my pants are too tight.

[Beardyface]

More interesting Theorycrafing info:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...16?page=14#280

1) What is the cap for Ignore Pain's absorb? From testing it seems to be IP's absorb value * 2.

2) How does that cap take into account Never Surrender, Indomitable, and Dragon Scales?

Celestalon:

Yes, the cap is 2x IP’s size at cast time. That cap takes into account all of the things that affect it. There’s a bug that the cap wasn’t including Indomitable, which I’ve just fixed for next next build.

So Ignore Pain can only stack twice: the initial cast and then another. I'm assuming a 3rd cast while the IP buff is still up would overwrite the initial cast.

[Marok]

More interesting Theorycrafing info:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...16?page=14#280



So Ignore Pain can only stack twice: the initial cast and then another. I'm assuming a 3rd cast while the IP buff is still up would overwrite the initial cast.

Looks like your assumption is correct.

Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, the cap is determined by the most recent cast of IP?

As an example, lets say you have a first cast of 300K (cap 600K), then you have a Dragon Scales proc/Never Surrender/etc that brings the next cast to 500K. When you cast that 500K IP on top of the first one, I assume the cap is now 1000K? Also, what if you cast a third IP for another 300K absorb, is the cap 600K again? What happens to the extra absorb that's over the now 600K cap?

All correct. In the last case, the extra is removed.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have the cap be the bigger of your last 2 ignore pains? Or to just say it can only stack twice and have no cap?

In the example provided it's very easy to "loose" 200k worth of absorb if you use IP twice in a row while the boss is casting his big bad ability. And using ignore pain twice before the big bad damage spike comes seems like something people would do.

It's another one of those intuitive things.
500k+300k = 600k
300k+500k = 800k (however rare this situation may be in reality)

[Breccia]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have the cap be the bigger of your last 2 ignore pains? Or to just say it can only stack twice and have no cap?

If I had to defend this choice from a gameplay perspective, I'd guess they're trying to keep people from jinking the systems by, say, taking Indominitable, letting their health to drop to 10% with 130 Rage, and waiting for artifact procs. They only want us to be so unkillable...kind of odd, given that Ignore Pain doesn't stop 100% of damage, but whatever.

[Beardyface]

If I had to defend this choice from a gameplay perspective, I'd guess they're trying to keep people from jinking the systems by, say, taking Indominitable, letting their health to drop to 10% with 130 Rage, and waiting for artifact procs. They only want us to be so unkillable...kind of odd, given that Ignore Pain doesn't stop 100% of damage, but whatever.

Wait, do you mean Never Surrender? Or did they change something with Indomitable again that's not in the tooltip?

Never Surrender ends up making this whole thing really mathy. Did anyone ever see an answer about exactly how it works? It seems like I recall something like: it scales linearly with your health from 100% (0% increase in IP) to 25% (100% increase in IP). That makes sense for the exact reason you stated above. Still, technically, the absolute optimal way to play is to pool 80 rage, wait until you're low heath, and pop IP twice. Not all the encounters or rage gains make that possible, but that's good in a way, as it would get boring for us and scary for the healers.

As for Might of the Uncool, I could almost see myself making a Shield Slam + Demo Shout + Battle Cry macro, as well as taking Ultimatum and Vengeance, and then Devastate x3 for the strong chance of a SS reset, weaving in Ultimatum procs and IP. If I get a SS reset on one of those Devastates before Battle Cry is up, that's a guaranteed 46 rage (I'm assuming they're rounding up the rage gain decimal point from MotV), to spend on two 20 rage IPs. That's better than Booming Voice. I've still got two free Battle Cries for guaranteed 20 rage IPs before everything lines back up again, assuming I use Battle Cry on cooldown.