Mechanical Keyboards

[Pterodactylus]

Hey folks,

I am typing on a cheap membrane keyboard, and they are the only style of keyboards I have ever used. I've had a couple of my WoW friends rave about their mechanical keyboards and they claim it has "Transformed their gaming" and that mechanical keyboards are "orders of magnitude better" than membrane keyboards, but call me skeptical.

I'd like some thoughts on mechanical keyboards. Are they really the bee's knees? Are they transformative to the gaming experience?

And if you are a user of a mechanical keyboards, which one do you have and what are the pros and cons?

Thanks all!

[potis]

Yes they are better, no they arent bee's knees they simply have a better feeling once you get used to them.

They dont stick, they dont feel plastic and fake even if its a 100$ membrane keyboard you always get that fake plastic feeling.

Its the same as a SSD versus a HDD, you dont really need it, but once you get that SSD you can never go back to a HDD.

Anything else is just irrelevant information.

If it feels good to your fingers, buy it, if it doesnt dont buy it.

It doesnt "Transform your gaming" or makes anything better game wise, there is no advantage..Well maybe the new Cherry MX switches that are faster than the regular older ones...but thats also stupid irrelevant stuff..

Its just a more solid feeling under your fingers compared to the cheap ass plastic pressure of a membrane keyboard.

Then again make sure to test which switch you want to get the feeling described above..Brown switches are perfect for me while i hate Red/Blue ones.

[ls-]

TBH, it's a matter of preference. I'm one of those guys who strongly prefers membrane keyboards. But I think that you definitely should try using various mechanical keyboards w/ various switches. Different switches will give you different feedback, you may not like one, but you may like another one :3

[aysatsana]

Mechanical keyboards are simply a luxury, they won't make you better, some people just prefer their typing feel and their build quality. Trust me, they won't make you a better gamer or even make you type faster for that matter. I know one of the top guys on typeracer who types 180+ wpm using a laptop membrane keyboard. Personally, I can type 140 wpm with any keyboard I have (my cherry mx browns, topre keyboard and laptop membrane keyboard). Basically my point is, they won't make you better. Don't expect to type faster with one. Don't fall for the marketing of "these are gaming switches" or "these are typing switches". It's all a matter of preference.

[Torgent]

While they won't directly make you better, they do feel nicer and thus I feel more comfortable when I am playing games. Membrane keyboards feel cheap to me and I don't enjoy them.

[Ghâzh]

I think they are strongly in the category of things that once you try them, you'll have a really hard time going back to the old, but if you haven't tried one, you don't know what you're missing on. So proceed at your own risk.

[Deleted]

At some point in time during the 90'ties I started using IBM Model M keyboards and just never stopped, so that is what I used on all my PC's, including the gaming rig. Apparently the original Model M has an issue, where it won't properly register beyond a certain number of simultaneous key presses. However, I truly do wonder how much of an issue that is for mere mortal gamers. As a *very* fast touch typist I have never managed to hit the limit, so I doubt I ever will.

Pro: Very nice toward your hands and fingers, and you can type (and control games) with silly yet accurate speed if that is your thing. No idea about the competitiveness thing, as I am just your average run of the mill gamer.

Con: Original Model M is quite noisy, which many find disturbing. The noise is something many of the modern equivalents have done away with. Additionally, according to MMO-C user evn (in this thread), my current keyboard is about to self destruct, as it is very close to 20 years old. Fortunately I have a stockpile of Model M's...

[Gilgemesh]

The main benefit of a well chosen mechanical keyboard is less repetitive stress related problems. As you get used to not having to bottom out the keys, you start reducing the stress on your fingers. My mother spends 6-8 hours a day at a keyboard, so I bought her a topre keyboard and an ergonomic chair. She has noticed that she has far less stiffness in her hands and body from the simple ergonomic improvements the keyboard and chair provide. For the user that spends very little time on a computer? I can't see a huge benefit for mechanical keyboards. It's a preference thing. I am a key mashing fool, so MX green keys do well for me, I like the feel and the bump and click helped me stop bottoming out keys so hard.

The one other aspect of mechanical keyboards is build quality. You can get keyboards with aluminum bodies, double shot keycaps that almost never wear out.
You can get lighting in every color of the rainbow, keyboards that swap from qwerty to dvorak in the flip of a switch. Then there are thousands of keycap types out there, from metal to clear plastic to 3d printed boobies. Whatever floats your boat.

- - - Updated - - -

At some point in time during the 90'ties I started using IBM Model M keyboards and just never stopped, so that is what I used on all my PC's, including the gaming rig. Apparently the original Model M has an issue, where it won't properly register beyond a certain number of simultaneous key presses. However, I truly do wonder how much of an issue that is for mere mortal gamers. As a *very* fast touch typist I have never managed to hit the limit, so I doubt I ever will.

Pro: Very nice toward your hands and fingers, and you can type (and control games) with silly yet accurate speed if that is your thing. No idea about the competitiveness thing, as I am just your average run of the mill gamer.

Con: Original Model M is quite noisy, which many find disturbing. The noise is something many of the modern equivalents have done away with. Additionally, according to MMO-C user evn (in this thread), my current keyboard is about to self destruct, as it is very close to 20 years old. Fortunately I have a stockpile of Model M's...

Key rollover only becomes an issue on the rarest of situations. I used to see it a lot when I played emulators(snes and the like) where moving at angles while holding a charge shot and trying to run faster all at once was just too many inputs for my old keyboard. OF course, it was 100% solved when I got a USB super nintendo controller that fit my tastes. Key rollover would probably never be an issue on any keyboard and mouse game. More than likely only comes into effect on things like I said above and games where multiple people might be playing on the same keyboard. Possibly if someone used a keyboard as a musical instrument, though there are better options out there for that, too.



I have a CM storm 104 key with mx green switches. My fallback keyboard is a CODE clear switch I got from ebay.

[Twoddle]

Mechanical keyboards don't suffer from key ghosting this is a must for serious gamers.

[Alindra]

• Ergodox, it's cool in a "some assembly required kinda way", but I'm having difficulty finding a layout that works for me. The same old "if it makes vim harder for any length of time" caveat applies. The issue I noticed most often is that it broke some of my chords for managing tmux/vim splits without a good way to fix those and keep everything else nice to use too. cmd+ctrl+shift+alt+opt is remarkably easy to use on "normal" keyboards but not so much this one. I think this one was blue switches, but might be black. In either case I can't comment much because it sits in a bag under my desk at work.

Do you usually use straight or ergonomic/natural keyboards? I ask because I've been using this keyboard since 2001 and haven't found a replacement I like. I also do a lot of typing (also in VI (master race)), but I also use it for gaming. I've tried to find a replacement, but they always seem to fail at one of my criteria:

* Ergonomic / natural layout
* Mechanical
* Not obtrusively reorganized key layout
* Wired

Ergodox was one that seemed like it could match (albeit with a modified key layout), but you don't sound too impressed with it. Another promising option was Microsoft's Sculpt Keyboard, but it's wireless. Ugh.

[Barcasaur]

It's just a matter of feel. Personally I find membrane keyboards comfortable and don't really get why people think they "feel cheap". I have a steelseires apex and it hasn't done me wrong yet.

Worth a shot to see if you like them but it really does just boil down to feel, I Lol'd at the "transformed my gaming experience" stuff.. one major down side to mechanical for me is that most of them are just obnoxiously nosiy. Probably not as bad for some people if it's yourself doing the typing but it would still drive me crazy.

[the boar]

my old membrane keyboard was literally hurting my fingers. the shock of thudding against the board each time i inverted those little silicone domes..

changing to mechanical was great for me. i like red switches. the little uh clicky feel of others (blue, brown? i forget which colours have that) was awful to me. i hated the feeling. if you can test out a few diff switches before committing i'd definitely recommend that.

it is always going to be personal preference. i have no problem typing on my laptops membrane keyboard now and again, but i'll never be buying one of those again for my desktop.

[Alindra]

At work I'm on a K95, at home either a black widow ultimate or apple extended II: just regular full size keyboards. I think I last used a split "natural" keyboard probably 15 years ago - it didn't really work for me, but it was one of those "Microsoft Natural" keyboard shapes rather than the two part version.

After looking at the other mechanical keyboards you mentioned, I was wondering if that was the case. I've pretty much been using the split keyboards since I was introduced to them. I find straight keyboards very uncomfortable.

The problem is finding a layout that works with my usual keybinds. Normal vim stuff works as you'd think: you're just using a-z0-9and a few "punctuation" characters so those are all easy to hit. 95% of my computer time is in a terminal and I've configured most of my applications to use vim-like bindings where possible.

The issues I had were things like vim+tmux. I use a few binds like cmd+opt+shift and cmd+opt+shift+alt+ctrl for things like navigating splits and tabs in tmux. I have a few keybinds that do sync/desync input to particular splits. Because your thumbs are "anchored" in the middle of the keyboard pressing a bunch of those becomes really difficult. I imagine that emacs would be damn near impossible. My other complaint is that finding a location for [{}] (which have to be relocated) is a bit of a pain. I tried moving them to be under index fingers but it was hard to make them feel right. I guess that comes with practice but it was jarring. "layer switching" can probably eliminate the problem (press a button to swap all the other keys to stuff like ctrl+alt+shift+x) but I'd have to spend weeks finding something optimal.

I also use a handful of FN key binds for things like toggling quickfix, triggering ctags, or firing off a build. In principle I could move those over to mapleaders or something but I couldn't think of anything that felt right. Having the function keys vanish kinda sucks and the mode switching/hold a modifier thing wasn't sticking.

It's not so much that the keyboard is bad, it's just that I'd have to say "okay for the next month I'm going to suffer through being slow so that in 2 months I'll be good again." I'm pretty sure I'd have to use it exclusively in order to learn it and I just don't have that in me right now. I bought it as a "kit" that came with a metal case, the boards, keycaps, and a bag full of switches to solder; I had a friend assemble it for me. There are companies that will sell you a "ready to go" model but I can't comment on those. It's Easy enough to configure once built, and pretty comfortable, but it's hard to give a review without giving it an honest try. I think I'd probably have to write a custom layout and add some "super" and "meta" keys in the locations that are normally bound to arrows in order to keep the workflow I'm used to.

Given that video games don't really need "all the keys" I'm sure you'd have no issue with that. Just install a separate layout and swap to it when you're playing. I'm sure that'd be a little awkward if you frequently swap to a browser while playing or something but it'd probably work.

While I primarily work within Windows (albeit with keyboard heavy programs like gvim and Cygwin) you make a lot of very good observations here. After reading this I spent a lot more time scrutinizing the keyboard layout. I understand that you can completely customize it, there are still things you can't really get around with the keys' physical layout. I'll have to sit down and think about where keys would go and/or different layouts (is there a limit?).

It's very likely that I'd be hampered learning it, as I'd likely only have one at home and not work (unless I ended up really liking it and buy another... chances of convincing them to spring for "non-standard" hardware might be a little difficult!)

I've never really soldered anything in my life, so assembling a keyboard could prove interesting... though potentially a useful learning experience. Or, as you say, buy one pre-made.

Neat idea, but hard for me to give a glowing recommendation. If you've got a couple hundred bucks and a bunch of spare time there's plenty of dumber things you can waste your money on.

Completely understandable, thanks for taking the time to write that up. It gave me a lot of food for thought. I'm a horribly frugal person, so I tend to shy away from purchasing things that I "don't need" and/or "won't use."

Then again, using the same keyboard for 15 years is a bit annoying. (I had to buy a PS2 to USB converter because my motherboard doesn't have any PS2 connectors!)

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks all for all the replies and discussion. After spending all of yesterday with my mother in law, I enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate all the time people took.

I think I am convinced that I'd like a mechanical keyboard - now it is a matter of figuring out which I want.

I want a full size keyboard with the 10-key number pad, and I think I have settled on the cherry mx brown switches. Seems like those will give me the clicky-clack without being too overly clicky clacky and causing my wife to punch me in the face.

Looking at the Corsair K70.

I've got about $125 to waste, and this seems like a great thing to spend it on.

[Alindra]

RE limits n ergodox layers: I think the default firmware comes with something like 10 layers and then there are a handful of command you can program like "toggle layer n" or "push layer" and "pop layer" so you can use it like a stack. The controller is an off-the-shelf micro-controller (Teensy) and you get the source code so you should be able to hack in whatever you need. just bare in mind there's a pretty small amount of memory to work with, something like 16 or 32kb total.

Excellent, thanks again for the info. Very interesting indeed.


Also, I'm terribly sorry about hijacking your thread, @Pterodactylus. @evn just presented a perfect opportunity and I couldn't pass it up.

[TZM]

Lots of opinions already, but ill post mine since i just recently (1 month ago) switched to mechanical for first time in my life!

So someone here told its like SSD vs regular HDD.... Sorry, this is just my personal opinion so dont judge me, but i dont feel like that AT ALL.
The difference between good membrane keyboard and mechanical doesnt feel so huge. At least i dont feel it. Only reason i could think why i dont feel it because i had high end (and meant for gaming) membrane keyboard before, maybe thats why i dont feel like i went from hdd to ssd....

Do i think its better than than membrane? Honestly, too fast to tell. At first (week 1) i was very underwhelmed by it because its whole different way how it works! Best example is - key spamming!! For membrane keys register when they reach the end of its way (when you push it all the way down), but my new mechanical has Cherry Red switches that register like when button is pressed about 1/3 of the way down... In practice, when i spam a key in a game, the way you spam it has to change, because on membrane i could keep key down and move it up just a tiny tiny bit to spam it, for mechanical i have to keep it somewhere up ... its even hard to explain, but you have to find the sweet spot, and its not easy to get used to... but you do, eventually.

Is it worth it? Whats good about it?
I dont know, but i think its worth it because, good membrane costs just a bit lower than decent mechanical, so id say why not go for mechanical IF you ened new keyboard or your old is trash.
In the end it is somewhat much more nice to play on, i dont know how to describe the feeling but it feels different in some way, sorry iam bad with words and English.

Did it improve my gaming? Um no, not for me. In fact it messed it for first week until i got hang of spamming keys on mechancial keyboard.

p.s. i got Corsair Gaming K70 with red switches. Its very nice build quality, with red only illumination (you can regulate brightness/turn it off), a metal plate finish (feel very nice) and its priced very nice. Before that i used Logitech G19s membrane gaming keyboard.

[Deleted]

Lots of opinions already, but ill post mine since i just recently (1 month ago) switched to mechanical for first time in my life!

So someone here told its like SSD vs regular HDD.... Sorry, this is just my personal opinion so dont judge me, but i dont feel like that AT ALL.
The difference between good membrane keyboard and mechanical doesnt feel so huge. At least i dont feel it. Only reason i could think why i dont feel it because i had high end (and meant for gaming) membrane keyboard before, maybe thats why i dont feel like i went from hdd to ssd....

Do i think its better than than membrane? Honestly, too fast to tell. At first (week 1) i was very underwhelmed by it because its whole different way how it works! Best example is - key spamming!! For membrane keys register when they reach the end of its way (when you push it all the way down), but my new mechanical has Cherry Red switches that register like when button is pressed about 1/3 of the way down... In practice, when i spam a key in a game, the way you spam it has to change, because on membrane i could keep key down and move it up just a tiny tiny bit to spam it, for mechanical i have to keep it somewhere up ... its even hard to explain, but you have to find the sweet spot, and its not easy to get used to... but you do, eventually.

Is it worth it? Whats good about it?
I dont know, but i think its worth it because, good membrane costs just a bit lower than decent mechanical, so id say why not go for mechanical IF you ened new keyboard or your old is trash.
In the end it is somewhat much more nice to play on, i dont know how to describe the feeling but it feels different in some way, sorry iam bad with words and English.

Did it improve my gaming? Um no, not for me. In fact it messed it for first week until i got hang of spamming keys on mechancial keyboard.

p.s. i got Corsair Gaming K70 with red switches. Its very nice build quality, with red only illumination (you can regulate brightness/turn it off), a metal plate finish (feel very nice) and its priced very nice. Before that i used Logitech G19s membrane gaming keyboard.

For me the difference was noticed best in a shooter. Having the instant reaction, strafing left/right. In WoW, I notice no big difference. Additionally, I didn't get the right board for myself, I need one with slightly wider keycaps. Difference between my keyboard and the one I have to use on work (cheap dome) is too big.

[anon5123]

Its the same as a SSD versus a HDD, you dont really need it, but once you get that SSD you can never go back to a HDD.

Ehhhh, not entirely. I got a Razer Blackwidow a long while ago, and while it was nice, it was noisy as all fuck and after a few months, I ended up switching back to a "normal" keyboard. (Apple Wireless keyboard)

[FluFF]

Ehhhh, not entirely. I got a Razer Blackwidow a long while ago, and while it was nice, it was noisy as all fuck and after a few months, I ended up switching back to a "normal" keyboard. (Apple Wireless keyboard)

Try Cherry MX reds or Cherry MX red silent, way less noisy compared to the click clack keys in a Blackwidow.

Also to the guy in front calling a K70 nicely priced, here it starts at 120 GBP for a non rgb version with 1 colour on the lightning and its 150 GBP for a K70 RGB or the new K70 rapidfire RGB , I find that quite a hefty price for a piece of external pc equipment and ''just'' a keyboard.

While I am planning to get a K70 RGB Rapidfire myself soon I still don't think its worth the money being just a keyboard, but I got an ancient Logitech G510 at home so might as well go Corsair if I have to spend money on a new one.
At least it should last me 5 years or so unless the lights bust after a few months or some other technical fault with it.

[Denkou]

If you don't like noisy switches then the Cherry MX Silent switches are by far the quietest mechanical switches out there. They're only available on the Corsair Strafe and only if you buy it from Best Buy.

Yes, they are actually called Cherry MX Silent, it's a new type of switch that Cherry just made a few months ago. Often, Cherry MX Browns are advertised as "silent" but the name of these is actually Cherry MX Silent and they are quieter than even Browns.