Arcane vs Fel Magic?

[Lastlivingsoul]

For everyone who thinks Fel is stronger consider this. As a Titan closely aligned with Arcane Sargeras made short work of every Demon infested Fel touched world.Sure he didn't know how to kill him but that didn't stop him from jailing them in Mardum, a Dimensional Prison. The only reason the fel magic of the Legion is so strong now is because Madrum became overcrowed and boiled over when when Sargeras unleashed them to go Baby Titan hunting.

I think this explains quite clearly that Arcane and Fel are evenly matched however Sargeras tipped the balance when he created Mardum.

[Zenny]

For everyone who thinks Fel is stronger consider this. As a Titan closely aligned with Arcane Sargeras made short work of every Demon infested Fel touched world.Sure he didn't know how to kill him but that didn't stop him from jailing them in Mardum, a Dimensional Prison. The only reason the fel magic of the Legion is so strong now is because Madrum became overcrowed and boiled over when when Sargeras unleashed them to go Baby Titan hunting.

I think this explains quite clearly that Arcane and Fel are evenly matched however Sargeras tipped the balance when he created Mardum.

That might have nothing to do with Arcane vs Fel. It just might be because of how powerful the Titans are. When Sargeras became all Fel infused he made short work of the other Titans.

[Deleted]

I know about this quote, but isn't Yoda biased? I wouldn't be surprised if he believed in superiority of Jedi and tried to influence his students.

Could be, but it could be also that you are biased and want the dark side to be stronger (figuratively speaking due to the nature of your argument). We have no proof that either is, so it works both (or neither) ways.

[TheFirstOnes]

Shouldn't they be weak to each other?

Nope, sargeras was originally a titan himself. So, he's ineffective towards arcane. If anything, the current pantheon never KNEW about what fel could do, so hence why they were severely weak towards sargeras. All they knew of fel before they fought sargeras was that...it hurts. Only sargeras and agrammar knew what fel could truely do.

[Mace]

I don't think Fel is stronger, ti's just different. it''s more destructive in nature, so it's easier to apply to destruction than arcane which is more constructive in nature.

think about building something or destroying it. Destroying it seems much easier and faster, while building takes time, examination etc. it's not that building or creating isn't a ver powerful tool, itis, it's jsut that for the purposes of destruction it appears at first fel is stronger because it works that stuff faster.

I can imagine using the arcane making you more logical, more intellectual, using fel making you more erratic, more unstable. The first lends itself much better to creation and order, the second lends itself to destruction and disorder much better.

Until you learn to compensate or defend for it, fel would be like lighting a torch to a building that is arcane. Titans were greatly hurt by Fel, not having time to learn to adjust for the magic that makes chaos out of order.

The arcane makes order out of chaos. So if you r only experience so far was shaping order from chaos, andnot having chaos used as weapon against you, I can imagine how you would be pretty defenseless. against it.

[FelPlague]

so lets say a mage and a warlock fire a bolt at eachother

Mage arcane bolt -----> <---- fel bolt Warlock

Mage ---O--- Warlock

Mage <<<--- Warlock

XXX Warlock

Fel magic is a corrupted version of arcane magic, and is not only stronger, but able to convert it, as fel magic would spread through arcane, burning it like fuel
as seen during the battle of sargeras and the fellow titans, fel magic is so strong it allowed sargeras to defeat ALL of the fellow titans as fel magic is super powerful to arcane

fel magic we still dont know the exact origin but i presume it comes from a mixture of arcane magic, and the void lords magic, mixing together into a anti arcane power

(fel magic lore wise is chaos damage, so yeah :P chaos bolt is the only ability that is considered fel magic that we use, so it ignores shields and any resistances.... well used to atleast)

lore wise warlocks are the strongest class BY FAR just not alot of people understand why, they are minions of the burning legion, with a toolkit that can counter any other class.. and sadley, lore wise, spell casters are allways stronger then non spell casters

heck a priest is stronger then a warrior lore wise "CHARGE" (warriors brain explodes) "Mind blast~"

yeah it sucks but it makes sense, someone who can conjure giant balls of fire from the sky will be stronger then a guy in plate...

and warlocks are stronger then any spell caster, as really... opening a portal to summon a army of demons, and able to conjur fel magic... look at demonology warlocks in legion, able to summon 20 imps, 3 doomguards, a beholder, and a wrathguard aswell as 6 dreadstalkers? AND ABLE TO CONTROL THEM ALL! yeah... thats why warlocks are strongest lore wise...

(btw putting this here for those who still think other classes are stronger)

[UnluckyAmateur]

Was ever a Dark side described as easier? .

On several occasions actually, they're constantly talking about how easy it is to fall to the dark side via emotions. It was one of the reasons why they didn't want to train anakin in the first place iirc, he had already suffered prior and was emotionally damaged which made it easier for Sheev to convert him.

[RH92]

Could be, but it could be also that you are biased and want the dark side to be stronger (figuratively speaking due to the nature of your argument). We have no proof that either is, so it works both (or neither) ways.

I never said I want it to be stronger.

I just said I don't believe neither is generally easier. It is just natural opposing sides will scorn the other and therefore we can't really take perception of one side as absolute truth.

[Mace]

so lets say a mage and a warlock fire a bolt at eachother

Mage arcane bolt -----> <---- fel bolt Warlock

Mage ---O--- Warlock

Mage <<<--- Warlock

XXX Warlock

Fel magic is a corrupted version of arcane magic, and is not only stronger, but able to convert it, as fel magic would spread through arcane, burning it like fuel
as seen during the battle of sargeras and the fellow titans, fel magic is so strong it allowed sargeras to defeat ALL of the fellow titans as fel magic is super powerful to arcane

fel magic we still dont know the exact origin but i presume it comes from a mixture of arcane magic, and the void lords magic, mixing together into a anti arcane power

(fel magic lore wise is chaos damage, so yeah :P chaos bolt is the only ability that is considered fel magic that we use, so it ignores shields and any resistances.... well used to atleast)

I'm not sure that's how it works, what you described could be a specific spell, targeted at the arcane user. i think fel magic is its own thing like a chaotic opposite.. I think at first in lore it seems fel is powerful because arcane users didn't know how to use it, or responded, besides, Sargeras and the Eredar lords were all arcane first, and then learnt how to use fel against arcane.

so arcane users were initially caught quite unawares by it,.. however we never saw warlocks demolishing mages at all in WC1-3, nor in wow, we saw mages giving as good as they got and often far more adept. sure the bolt was destructive, but you always got the impression the mage had more tools up his sleeve.

So after a while you can learn how to use arcane to be very effective against Fel, unfortunately it was too late for the Titans, who were caught unawares.

[FelPlague]

I'm not sure that's how it works, what you described could be a specific spell, targeted at the arcane user. i think fel magic is its own thing like a chaotic opposite.. I think at first in lore it seems fel is powerful because arcane users didn't know how to use it, or responded, besides, Sargeras and the Eredar lords were all arcane first, and then learnt how to use fel against arcane.

so arcane users were initially caught quite unawares by it,.. however we never saw warlocks demolishing mages at all in WC1-3, nor in wow, we saw mages giving as good as they got and often far more adept. sure the bolt was destructive, but you always got the impression the mage had more tools up his sleeve.

So after a while you can learn how to use arcane to be very effective against Fel, unfortunately it was too late for the Titans, who were caught unawares.

read chronicals
there we learn arcane, and even the titans themselves
are weak again fel magic...

there is no "learning to counter fel magic" its like learning how to counter being shot... "oh i will just umm.. try to block it so it does less damage to me insides?"

[Aucald]

It was always my understanding that Arcane and Fel are simply different wavelengths of energy derived from a different source, neither technically being more intrinsically powerful than the other. Most expressions of Fel are harmful, deleterious, or destructive (by dint of Fel being derived from the consumption of life itself) whereas Arcane is more varied - but can be just as destructive in expression as Fel if channeled in such a way. Just remember that it was an Arcane Mana bomb that destroyed Theramore in a single instant; turning people to dust, nullifying gravity, and basically appearing like a small scale nuclear detonation.

[Deleted]

What I don't get is why Titans are associated with the Arcane at all. They were, just like the Naaru, created from the Light itself.

I mean technically everything was, but the Titans like the Naaru were large fragments of Light.

[Combatbutler]

What I don't get is why Titans are associated with the Arcane at all. They were, just like the Naaru, created from the Light itself.

I mean technically everything was, but the Titans like the Naaru were large fragments of Light.

Well everything is related to the light and void, everything we see in the universe has parts of both in them to varying degrees. Arcane seems to be pretty close to pure light.

[nonameelf]

Nope, sargeras was originally a titan himself. So, he's ineffective towards arcane. If anything, the current pantheon never KNEW about what fel could do, so hence why they were severely weak towards sargeras. All they knew of fel before they fought sargeras was that...it hurts. Only sargeras and agrammar knew what fel could truely do.

That doesn't make sense. Fel is chaos, arcane is order. They're opposites. They should be strong against each other.

[Dartz1979]

Fel is stronger, reasons:

* arcane is weak to fel
* arcane requires an outside source, while fel can be created by draining life force and souls of others

Keep in mind the potency of the magic is also based on it's user also.

[Juvencus]

I think Fel is to the Twisting Nether what Arcane is to Azeroth's universe. The basic background power the permeates everything. They are equal if their users are equal.

[TheFirstOnes]

That doesn't make sense. Fel is chaos, arcane is order. They're opposites. They should be strong against each other.

....Read the cronicles...it tells you why sargeras won against the pantheon.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make sense. Fel is chaos, arcane is order. They're opposites. They should be strong against each other.

Well if Arcane is pretty close to pure Light, Fel has to be the bastard offspring.

Fel was created in the Nether when Light and Void merged in a corrupt way, or something like that I don't remember the exact quote, but Fel is pretty much toxic waste.

So it may be the opposite of Order if you wanna look at it that way, but its nature makes it very much 'unnatural'. In a way even more unnatural than pure Void.

[Mace]

read chronicals
there we learn arcane, and even the titans themselves
are weak again fel magic...

there is no "learning to counter fel magic" its like learning how to counter being shot... "oh i will just umm.. try to block it so it does less damage to me insides?"

because titans are beings of order and light, so Fel was storng against them. Also titans hadn't experienced fel, unlike sargeras, so there arcane knowledge didnt' have time to respond.

Don't forget Sargeras awas first an arcane master, so he'd know exactly how to use fel against arcane users, read what i wrote earlier to others, about Fel being more destructive in nature, but taht doens't necesasrily mean more powerful at all.

Order will find it hard to work against destruction when you shape destruction specifically to target order, it's nature makes it easier without counter knowledge or time. Order is precise, calculating, requiring great thought, intellect and precision, ofc it can counter Fel, fel being erratic and largely uncontrollable by nature which is why demons use it so but are easily mastered by an ordered (arcane mind) that can control himself enough to manage fel.

We see mages in warcraft often more experienced and able to master their unlearned warlock counterparts. The harder battles come against the arcane masters who turned to fel, warlocks who were once mages, or who those who master the darker arts, yet even as they do, there is a weakness to it, it is moreexhilrating, it seems in itially stronger, but is it when it leave you weaker? when it imbalances you leaving you vulnerable in ohter ways, say it tugs at your mind, makes your mind more chaotic, you're not structured for that

[Deleted]

because titans are beings of order and light, so Fel was storng against them. Also titans hadn't experienced fel, unlike sargeras, so there arcane knowledge didnt' have time to respond.

Don't forget Sargeras awas first an arcane master, so he'd know exactly how to use fel against arcane users, read what i wrote earlier to others, about Fel being more destructive in nature, but taht doens't necesasrily mean more powerful at all.

Order will find it hard to work against destruction when you shape destruction specifically to target order, it's nature makes it easier without counter knowledge or time. Order is precise, calculating, requiring great thought, intellect and precision, ofc it can counter Fel, fel being erratic and largely uncontrollable by nature which is why demons use it so but are easily mastered by an ordered (arcane mind) that can control himself enough to manage fel.

We see mages in warcraft often more experienced and able to master their unlearned warlock counterparts. The harder battles come against the arcane masters who turned to fel, warlocks who were once mages, or who those who master the darker arts, yet even as they do, there is a weakness to it, it is moreexhilrating, it seems in itially stronger, but is it when it leave you weaker? when it imbalances you leaving you vulnerable in ohter ways, say it tugs at your mind, makes your mind more chaotic, you're not structured for that

and yet mages become warlocks for more power