How to start being a vegan?

[Underverse]

Of course B12 deficiency can be a problem. Being vegan does not mean you're deficient in B12 though. Also B12 doesn't actually come from animal protein. Maybe you should have learned that stuff in your schooling.

The problem with those studies is most importantly, the definition of a vegan diet and what specific foods were eaten or not eaten. There is no actual deficiency in of those vitamins in a normal vegan diet. Meat eaters need more supplements than vegans to reach the mythical peak health these studies are asserting. I doubt you've done significant research into the numerous supplements and antibiotics the meat itself needs. And for the last one, do you understand what food animals eat?

There is a deficiency in a 'normal' vegan diet. 43% of vegans are B12 deficient, and 31% of those who supplement B12 are deficient because they don't know how to dose themselves (sometimes dosages required exceed 100x rda).

Meat doesn't need antibiotics - antibiotics are simply used to increase growth. But there's plenty of antibiotic-free meat - and you can be damned sure I've done my research. This isn't a good argument.

Meat eaters can be unhealthy, or they can be healthy (depending on other habits). In the latter case, no supplementation is required, which is not the case with vegans.

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I have one belief....do the least amount of harm possible.

Misguided. You annihilate billions, if not trillions of microorganisms daily. Is that not harm? Or does harm only apply to some kinds of life?

[wowaccounttom]

i was going to state the obvious and say "stop eating meat"..... then this guy posted the same thing...

I simply stopped eating meat and stuff and started Googling for vegan recipes of stuff I already used to eat.

it doesnt get more obvious than that.... how do you don't do something? you don't do it

[Risale]

Getting a lobotomy isn't technically required, but it may help.

As if being vegan would automatically lead to malnutrition.

Of course B12 deficiency can be a problem. Being vegan does not mean you're deficient in B12 though. Also B12 doesn't actually come from animal protein. Maybe you should have learned that stuff in your schooling.

I think you are the one that needs to go back to school.

B12 is a vitamin that is not recognised as being reliably supplied from a varied wholefood, plant-based diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables, together with exposure to sun. B12 is found in many herbivorous mammals, including cattle and sheep they absorb B12 produced by bacteria in their own digestive system.

Source of that little bit of information comes directly from "The Vegan Society" so a society representing vegans state that B12 comes from animal protein.

[chrisnumbers]

I would recommend not announcing youre vegan and not talking about it unless you have to. If people ask you about it or ask dumb ass questions like 'where do you get your protein?' Just tell them that you talked to your doctor and he/she said that you would be perfectly fine eating this way.

You're telling this person to lie that a doctor said it's ok?
If someone asks you a legitimate question, you invent a doctor who said it's ok instead of answering their question because you have no answer?
Holy shit you're a moron.

[Underverse]

Those all point to B12 deficiency which Ive already agreed that if you go Vegan you will have to supplement. Do you have anything else to show how its such an inferior diet than what Ive already stated?

B12 is the tip of the iceberg. As the studies I linked showed, vitamin D, calcium, vitamin A, dipeptides such as carnosine, omega 3 fatty acids, iron, and zinc are all deficient in vegan diets. In most cases, not deficient enough to cause serious damage (although there is significant damage in many cases, often permanent and even lethal if you don't have access to good medical care), but deficiencies certainly don't lend themselves to an ideal diet.

[Bodakane]

There is a deficiency in a 'normal' vegan diet. 43% of vegans are B12 deficient, and 31% of those who supplement B12 are deficient because they don't know how to dose themselves (sometimes dosages required exceed 100x rda).

Meat doesn't need antibiotics - antibiotics are simply used to increase growth. But there's plenty of antibiotic-free meat - and you can be damned sure I've done my research. This isn't a good argument.

Meat eaters can be unhealthy, or they can be healthy (depending on other habits). In the latter case, no supplementation is required, which is not the case with vegans.

lol, you've done the research my lily white ass.

Those percentages are made up.

The problem with the crap your spewing is that you have no clue what a normal vegan eats and that you make allowances for meat eaters who do it right, but no allowances for vegans who do it right and just lump them all together.

[Gref]

easy. two steps. try to stop eating bacon. fail. eat bacon.

[Nynax]

"Going Vegan" does not save animals. And provides little health benefits.

So much this. We can't even get the majority public to eat a traditionally healthy diet. You (vegans) really think you'll convert enough people beyond that to make a dent in the meats market?

[velren]

Lets see them...



The fact that we eat more meat now than ever and the fact that nations that never had cardiovascular disease or diabetes until they started consuming more animal products actually supports what I say more than what youre trying to say. The fact that we now have an obesity epidemic across the world supports it too. The fact that nations that rarely consumed meat and never had those ailments until they started consuming meat regularly also proves you wrong. I can go on and on.

Yes, the fact that meat is more accessible as well as fatty/sugary foods would of course lead to more over consumption of such things (kind of happens when our world if progressing and making these items easier to obtain)...But that is why any healthy person practices this amazing thing called 'moderation'. You continue to completely disregard physiology and evolution while cherry picking random stats that have much more factors to account for then a vegan/non-vegan diet. As someone who continues to say and act like they are trying to 'educate' people, perhaps educate yourself, reach outside of your own bubble and look at statistics with knowledge of both sides and other factors.

Either way, everyone has a right to live however they wish, enjoy your vegan diet.

[Xirrohon]

B12 is the tip of the iceberg. As the studies I linked showed, vitamin D, calcium, vitamin A, dipeptides such as carnosine, omega 3 fatty acids, iron, and zinc are all deficient in vegan diets. In most cases, not deficient enough to cause serious damage (although there is significant damage in many cases, often permanent and even lethal if you don't have access to good medical care), but deficiencies certainly don't lend themselves to an ideal diet.

Then you didnt even read the studies you linked. Many of them start to go into detail about the other deficiencies with a huge BUT...

[Underverse]

lol, you've done the research my lily white ass.

Those percentages are made up.

The problem with the crap your spewing is that you have no clue what a normal vegan eats and that you make allowances for meat eaters who do it right, but no allowances for vegans who do it right and just lump them all together.

Here's the study.

You're just flopping left and right here.

What allowances do I make for meat eaters? You're making assumptions.

[Xirrohon]

Yes, the fact that meat is more accessible as well as fatty/sugary foods would of course lead to more over consumption of such things (kind of happens when our world if progressing and making these items easier to obtain)...But that is why any healthy person practices this amazing thing called 'moderation'. You continue to completely disregard physiology and evolution while cherry picking random stats that have much more factors to account for then a vegan/non-vegan diet. As someone who continues to say and act like they are trying to 'educate' people, perhaps educate yourself, reach outside of your own bubble and look at statistics with knowledge of both sides and other factors.

Either way, everyone has a right to live however they wish, enjoy your vegan diet.

Yea, we live in such a moderate society. Where Heart Disease is the number one killer. Where diabetes is increasing at an alarming rate. Where obesity is at an all time high and is expected to get to 60% of the world population in less than a decade. Such a good and healthy society we are making here.

[Underverse]

Then you didnt even read the studies you linked. Many of them start to go into detail about the other deficiencies with a huge BUT...

Usually it's the other way around. For example:

A vegetarian diet is associated with many health benefits because of its higher content of fiber, folic acid, vitamins C and E, potassium, magnesium, and many phytochemicals and a fat content that is more unsaturated.

BUT

Micronutrients of special concern for the vegan include vitamins B-12 and D, calcium, and long-chain n–3 (omega-3) fatty acids. Unless vegans regularly consume foods that are fortified with these nutrients, appropriate supplements should be consumed. In some cases, iron and zinc status of vegans may also be of concern because of the limited bioavailability of these minerals.

Either way, I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not arguing that a vegan diet doesn't have some benefits. I'm just arguing that you can retain those benefits and still eat meat.

[Bodakane]

I think you are the one that needs to go back to school.

B12 is a vitamin that is not recognised as being reliably supplied from a varied wholefood, plant-based diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables, together with exposure to sun. B12 is found in many herbivorous mammals, including cattle and sheep they absorb B12 produced by bacteria in their own digestive system.

Source of that little bit of information comes directly from "The Vegan Society" so a society representing vegans state that B12 comes from animal protein.

Scroll down:

http://beyondmeat.com/products/view/the-beast-burger

[Xirrohon]

Usually it's the other way around. For example:



BUT



Either way, I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not arguing that a vegan diet doesn't have some benefits. I'm just arguing that you can retain those benefits and still eat meat.

You read the abstract. Go read the actual fucking study thats where the BUTs are.

[Underverse]

Yea, we live in such a moderate society. Where Heart Disease is the number one killer. Where diabetes is increasing at an alarming rate. Where obesity is at an all time high and is expected to get to 60% of the world population in less than a decade. Such a good and healthy society we are making here.

And what is the cause?

Is it fat? Is it meat?

Or is it sugar, something found exclusively in plant foods at appreciable levels?

[velren]

Yea, we live in such a moderate society. Where Heart Disease is the number one killer. Where diabetes is increasing at an alarming rate. Where obesity is at an all time high and is expected to get to 60% of the world population in less than a decade. Such a good and healthy society we are making here.

That kind of ruins your 'go vegan' perspective though...even you have admitted vegans have to supplement their diet and take care to make sure they are keeping things balanced....which is all it requires to stay healthy on a non vegan diet, which is even easier to keep balanced then a vegan one. Keep on keeping on though, it's obvious you have an opinion and refuse to look outside of it.

BTW: You're also continuing to ignore the fact that a non vegan diet is not the cause of those issues but a evolving world and increase in sedimentary lifestyle because less and less people are actually required to do manual labor....the list goes on.

[Underverse]

You read the abstract. Go read the actual fucking study thats where the BUTs are.

Or you could actually form an argument, instead of alluding to things that may or may not be there. Quote it. Show me I'm wrong.

[zephid]

Hey guys,

Someone on my Facebook who recently linked an article on ways to go vegan. The article is old but it kind of made me want to try a vegan diet. I also watched some videos and saw how bad animals are treated. I want to live longer, have more energy and help the environment and my body, any tips on how to start a vegan diet?

The first thing is to stop reading biased articles. A vegan diet has some advantages but it comes with a couple of disadvantages as well. Trusting everything you read about the positive effects of a vegan diet on PETA's website is not exactly a smart choice.

[Underverse]

Scroll down:

http://beyondmeat.com/products/view/the-beast-burger

Brought to you by modern science.

The argument that is being made here is that it's an evolutionary incompatible diet. If you don't have access to rebuilt items like the one you linked, you could not survive on such a diet. And up through the 1800s, people died.