[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[Alessan]

I really liked this new talent (Beacon of Virtue), but I had loved the battle healer playstyle of the Beacon of the savior. I really wish that Blizzard let some talent to keep this healing style because its so fun...

Sorry for some mistakes, english its not my native language.

[Sungamnori]

Well. No fuckin reason for me to roll holy now.

[toolsv]

Does anyone have a link to a video of someone healing a dungeon in the melee healer style? I've been been looking but I can't seem to find anything.

Welp, I guess this is moot now. That sucks though because I was really keen to play with it.

[Sungamnori]

They better be making the Beacon of Savior effect baseline....

[Floopa]

Beacon of Virtue is really strong. Think of it's 5 man potential.

[mcbubble]

Doesn't the new Beacon of Virtue affect our leveling experience now that we no longer have the crusader heal?

[Deleted]

When they said changes to beacon of saviour, I didn't expect them to scrap it! Oh well. Disappointed, but at least the new one looks intriguing.

[Coffeh]

Doesn't the new Beacon of Virtue affect our leveling experience now that we no longer have the crusader heal?

That whole row seems completely useless to solo play. I guess that makes sense for a healer spec. But usually there's at least one option that has some kind of benefit to content other than group play.

[Dorkman]

Haven't played new build, so I can't speak on the BoV talent, but it on paper it seems pretty cool although it will probably set us back quite a bit in leveling/solo play scenarios. Guh, take my access away, I'm not responsible enough for these kinds of decisions.

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Edit
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Time to probably bite the bullet and just level as ret again. I didn't collect all of this OS gear for nothing.

[siccora]

ppl are saying, holy pala is not fun on alpha right now. i cannot see why. they said, druids and monks are strongest classes right now.

[Unir]

Apply a Beacon of Light to your target and 4 injured allies within 30 yards for 8 sec;]. Holy Paladin - Level 100 Talent.15% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. Instant. 12 sec cooldown.

Hmmmm. Replaced beacon of the savior.

So I'm guessing this works as you have your normal beacon the the tank and this adds 5 new beacons for the duration? Can anyone confirm how this works once beta is back up? <3

I can't wait to see what the alpha/beta testers say about this after using it.

Presumably your target could always be the current tank, so the description makes it sound like you can keep a beacon on a tank plus four random people. That said, the obvious limitation is the 8-second duration on the beacons themselves. You would be reapplying this every 3rd to 4th (-ish) spell cast, depending.

My guess is probably not as great for raiding, but good for mythic/mythic+ dungeons.

[Deleted]

sooo

how does it look boys?
Holy meele warrior not happening right? for relevant content that is, not grossely outgearing it

[toolsv]

sooo

how does it look boys?
Holy meele warrior not happening right? for relevant content that is, not grossely outgearing it

I can't see it working without Beacon of the Saviour. Seemed like that was what enabled you to play it without lots of tedious target switching or clumsy target-of-my-target macros on all your attacks. I don't think Crusader's Might on it's own is enough to draw you into hitting things more than occasionally.

Beacon of Virtue seems really interesting too though, so I don't think I want them to straight up revert the change but I do feel like abandoning what was touted as a core aspect of the class is the wrong way to go. I think there's room for both of them and I don't dislike the idea of making Saviour core and then adjusting how those procced heals scale with the other Beacons. Or just get rid of Beacon of Faith but I'm probably outnumbered on wanting that one removed.

I really hope that what happened with Saviour wasn't that they invited a whole hoard of mythic raiders and then saw that none of them were using it and decided to cut it. I don't think I'd even try it for mythic raiding but I really like it for all the rest of the content in the game.

[Deleted]

Beacon of the Savior was always shit. People loved the concept, a plate holy warrior healing by damaging opponents, and never actually cared to hear the bad feedback of the implementation. The mechanic in itself was a small rehash of the disc attonement mechanic, but on only one target, and you healed based on spellpower and not on damage dealt. Classes like disc priest and mistweaver are much closer to play to the style that you want, compared to h paladin.

I really hope that what happened with Saviour wasn't that they invited a whole hoard of mythic raiders and then saw that none of them were using it and decided to cut it. I don't think I'd even try it for mythic raiding but I really like it for all the rest of the content in the game.

What exactly do you like it for?

Its obviously useless for heroic and mythic raiding.
The tanks self heal more than you heal them with BoS in normal and heroic dungeons. You can't heal hc dungeons with BoS alone anyway.
Its useless for mythic and mythic+ dungeons.
You can heal yourself after taking damage when doing world quests.

I'm actually extremely happy they stopped wasting a talent choice by having that junk in.

[mcbubble]

What exactly do you like it for?

Its obviously useless for heroic and mythic raiding.
The tanks self heal more than you heal them with BoS in normal and heroic dungeons. You can't heal hc dungeons with BoS alone anyway.
Its useless for mythic and mythic+ dungeons.
You can heal yourself after taking damage when doing world quests.

I'm actually extremely happy they stopped wasting a talent choice by having that junk in.

I personally liked it while questing/solo leveling. You could almost never die.

[toolsv]

I had assumed that in tuning the numbers would be brought up to about the level where you could heal at least ilevel appropriate 5 man content regular tank damage with it. Add in to that the fact that you still have your regular heals and Crusader's Might helping you with group healing and there's no mechanical reason it can't be viable if they tune it right.

The mechanic in itself was a small rehash of the disc attonement mechanic, but on only one target, and you healed based on spellpower and not on damage dealt. Classes like disc priest and mistweaver are much closer to play to the style that you want, compared to h paladin.

I don't think any of this is a problem. Optional part time atonement is great. Only having one target at a time is fine because you've still got the rest of your kit and it's an interesting difference to Disc. Healing based on spell power is also just different and not bad - in fact it should be more versatile for designing other gameplay hooks and easier to balance as well. Saying 'go play another spec' is disingenuous because we're in the alpha and not a finished game and solving problems like this is the whole point. I'll give you that Red Crane stance Mistweaver is close to the style I want to play but it's gone and there are no signs of it coming back. There are signs of paladins filling that void though.

[Deleted]

I personally liked it while questing/solo leveling. You could almost never die.

Designing a talent arround 10 hours of gameplay is idiotic at best. Even if it was a good talent for leveling, most people wont be leveling as holy because of the degenerate play style and low amount of damage done. No one in the their right mind will even be specced holy for solo content once they reach level 110. Therefore it is a complete waste of a talent.

I had assumed that in tuning the numbers would be brought up to about the level where you could heal at least ilevel appropriate 5 man content regular tank damage with it. Add in to that the fact that you still have your regular heals and Crusader's Might helping you with group healing and there's no mechanical reason it can't be viable if they tune it right.

Like Aladya said it has nothing to do with tuning, you could make it heal for half your health on every hit and it would still have been a shitty talent, probably one that players would have abused for tank healing but a shitty talent nonetheless. Sure atonement style healing could easily be implemented on paladins but 1.that should not be done through a single talent and 2.if you want that play style you really should just play something else.

Beacon of Virtue is actually a well designed talent which hopefully also makes paladins great in 5 mans, which is something we really needed.

[Deleted]

Beacon of the Savior was always shit. People loved the concept, a plate holy warrior healing by damaging opponents, and never actually cared to hear the bad feedback of the implementation. The mechanic in itself was a small rehash of the disc attonement mechanic, but on only one target, and you healed based on spellpower and not on damage dealt. Classes like disc priest and mistweaver are much closer to play to the style that you want, compared to h paladin.


What exactly do you like it for?

Its obviously useless for heroic and mythic raiding.
The tanks self heal more than you heal them with BoS in normal and heroic dungeons. You can't heal hc dungeons with BoS alone anyway.
Its useless for mythic and mythic+ dungeons.
You can heal yourself after taking damage when doing world quests.

I'm actually extremely happy they stopped wasting a talent choice by having that junk in.

And what's wrong with a carbon copy of atonement for a melee spec wielding a giant hammer wearing full plate? Fits our "class fantasy" that they've been banding on about so much more than it does a priest. You don't think that tweaking the talent could have made it more viable rather than outright scrapping it? We saw hardly any iteration on it so of course nobody was going to test it further after finding out it's throughput was junk. Nobody is complaining that the talent as it was didn't make it live, but I would have loved to see more experimentation with it on the live alpha.

I mean really, Equality - a talent almost nobody wants - has seen several tweaks to it, whereas Saviour - a talent that a fair few people were interested in in principle - stayed junk for months before being flat out removed. You see nothing wrong with this picture?

[Deleted]

I mean really, Equality - a talent almost nobody wants - has seen several tweaks to it, whereas Saviour - a talent that a fair few people were interested in in principle - stayed junk for months before being flat out removed. You see nothing wrong with this picture?

The principle which you are interested in requires a full on class redesign. The talent was never going to be successful, maybe next expansion they will get rid of health = healing class fantasy and make it melee = healing class fantasy.

[Dorkman]

I mean really, Equality - a talent almost nobody wants - has seen several tweaks to it, whereas Saviour - a talent that a fair few people were interested in in principle - stayed junk for months before being flat out removed. You see nothing wrong with this picture?

There may have been a fair amount of discussion internally about the talent that we never heard, and instead of wasting time trying to force it, they scrapped it on their own decision, in addition to points made on official forums on the talent, when they realized this battle healer class fantasy was actually an awful idea in practice. "Yes, let's give them shit damage, but let them heal in a quite subpar fashion and see how long they accept it as a playstyle because of class fantasy," when you have Ret that has decent enough self heals and more than enough damage to kill things fast enough to not even have to worry about healing that often.