Super stale meta

[Nikkaszal]

Just 3 of those classes play near identically :X

I assume you mean C'thun Druid, Priest and Warrior?

Priest and Warrior are fatigue decks while Druid is ramp; apart from the 2-4mana neutrals they all play quite differently. Additionally, Priests have an effective OHKO deck and Dragon Priest is still strong as hell. Warriors also have Patron, Pirate aggro and dragon tempo.

[Raiju]

Are you talking about that 7 card double thaurissaned combo healer OHKO? That's considered effective?

I've also not seen a dragon tempo warrior, and patron/pirate are usually the same deck. Dragon priest I've seen a single so far & I've actually actively played since old gods released so seen a few dozen decks

[Nikkaszal]

Are you talking about that 7 card double thaurissaned combo healer OHKO? That's considered effective?

I've also not seen a dragon tempo warrior, and patron/pirate are usually the same deck. Dragon priest I've seen a single so far & I've actually actively played since old gods released so seen a few dozen decks

Pirate and Patron are two very different decks. Pirate is weapon-heavy aggro featuring Upgrade while Patron is... well, Patron.

[Raiju]

Yes, and usually I only see patrons in pirate decks, going aggro and then dropping the patron at some inconvenient point with the enrage ping + whirlwind they have every game on turn 6

[Deleted]

So is this going to be the meta for the next 6 months? 9 cthun decks, face shaman, a nzoth or three, and zoo? I've been playing nzoth rogue almost exclusively and I think it is a fun fairly strong deck, but I have only seen 1 other all week. I also have built a zoo and played it to much sucess...but I can't stand playing face decks for very long. Also modified my highlander hunter with some cthun and it really catches people off guard. But I'd say 95% of the opponents I've faced have been cthun...which is getting super boring.

Dude we're a week in, the meta will change... Just look at the start of ANY other new release, it's always the same 2-3 decks then in branches off. The meta is only defined by the players by the way, the second everybody catches on and starts building counter decks, people will counter those and so on. This is just how card games work

[Kraenen]

It's been LESS THAN A WEEK.

Sheesh.

it's weird, the meta really does feel ultra stale already

[Darkeon]

I think a lot of it just depends on your luck in terms of what you get matched against.

It's really easy to go up against 8 C'Thun decks in a row right now and making you feel shitty, even though there actually are a lot of viable decks emerging.

They better hurry up. Dusted up ol' hearthstone to unwind a bit. 5th deck in a row that I'm facing a C'Thun built deck.. Might put the game to the side again for a while.

[Deleted]

Aggressive decks still work extremely well for ranking up. They win fast and they win a lot.
KJ's nerf doesn't even matter when they introduce even crazier board-flood cards like Forbidden Ritual or StAD.

I'm not complaining much about it, I play both control and aggro.
Aggro keeps overly controlling decks in check. If it wasn't for Zoo or Aggro Pally, those damn C'thun decks would just dominate everything.

[shammypie]

They better hurry up. Dusted up ol' hearthstone to unwind a bit. 5th deck in a row that I'm facing a C'Thun built deck.. Might put the game to the side again for a while.

make an anti c'thun deck then and you'll laugh your butt off. They are actually weak decks overall and can be negated by aggression, healing, and control.

[Darkeon]

make an anti c'thun deck then and you'll laugh your butt off. They are actually weak decks overall and can be negated by aggression, healing, and control.

Wish I could. Unfortunately my collection is rather limited and my OCD prevents me from destroying the little collection I have, just to scrap as much as I can in dust.

Thus why my options were to take it and enjoy it; Or put it to rest some more :P

[Deleted]

I think it's more fun than it's been in a good while. Things feel like they're still being worked out, and although it feels awful to be beat by another agro Shaman, I personally have seen TOO many of them, and if you tech right they're fairly simple to beat (unless you draw terribly.)

As for the amount of C'Thun, it's honestly an arch-type I don't mind. It's incredibly predictable, I don't feel there's much "wiggle room". You know that Twilight Elder IS coming down on turn 3, because it'll mostly always been the best play. Along with the N'zoth decks, the divine Pala, control hunter, evolve shammy, even Zoo, I've been seeing a lot of variety.

[Deleted]

As for the amount of C'Thun, it's honestly an arch-type I don't mind. It's incredibly predictable, I don't feel there's much "wiggle room". You know that Twilight Elder IS coming down on turn 3, because it'll mostly always been the best play. Along with the N'zoth decks, the divine Pala, control hunter, evolve shammy, even Zoo, I've been seeing a lot of variety.

How is any of that diversity? Every C'thun plays the same, same goes for N'zoth, and every body old god deck... except... I just remembered; aside from Yogg-for-laughs, you don't really see other old god decks, and it is made worse by everyone and their mothers getting a free C'thun. Thanks to that, even Wild is infested with C'thun decks.

I don't know about you but I see very few control hunters, unless you count N'zoth hunters into that category, and both hunters and paladins pale by comparison to the amount of shamans and zoo are crawling over the ladder. To add insult to injury, zoo has been around since the dawn of time. It just happened to get a boost, 'cause apparently we all needed more zoo in our lives.

So really it's just a couple of molds copied endlessly, over and over again.

[Okacz]

The only stinker in the current meta is the mind numbingly boring C'Thun. Aside of that, all the other decks are actually pretty fun to play and play against.

N'Zoth requires way more forward thinking than people give it credit for, since it's harder to squeeze value out of him than from "Kill your shit and leave 20/20" C'Thun. Aggro decks lost their most aggrevating tools like Crackle or Mad Scientist, and became a bit more fun to play against. All ZOO variants got fun new cards, Totem Shaman got viable (in a way), and there is a ton of both strong and fun archetypes, like Renounce Warlock or Evolution Shaman. Even Divine Shield Paladin can pull his weight.

Sure, Combo Druid got replaced by near identically boring C'Thun Druid, and Fuck You Priest is still around, but at least there is a ton of other options in the game.

[Deleted]

WotOG has been another weak expansion, much like TGT, but people won't criticize it so much because the set rotation has changed the game up a good deal. 90% of what's new stems from the fact that Naxx and GvG are gone, not from the cards introduced with WotOG. C'Thun decks haven't proven to be competitively viable; they were virtually non-existent at Dreamhack and are likewise far from popular at the top of the ladder. Good analysts predicted this as there's really no reason a deck full of bad minions and a 1-of 10-drop win condition should be great. It's about as good as stuff like dragon paladin and aggro rogue -- playable, and you could even take it to legend if you really insist on it, but not competitively viable and not seen much in any serious context.

Looking at each class, the general trend is to have lost more decks from the rotation of Naxx and GvG than were gained from WotOG. If we take Dreamhack as a baseline for what's competitively viable by counting only decks that were seen somewhat regularly over the course of the tournament (i.e. the one guy who brought C'Thun warlock does not make C'Thun warlock a competitively viable deck) here's what's currently part of the competitive meta, versus the LoE meta:

WotOG:
Warrior - control, patron, tempo
Paladin - n'zoth
Shaman - aggro, midrange
Hunter - nothing
Druid - nothing
Rogue - miracle
Warlock - reno, zoo
Priest - control, n'zoth (arguable)
mage - freeze

LoE:
Warrior - control, patron, tempo
Paladin - secret, murloc, midrange
Shaman - aggro
Hunter - midrange (incl. camel variant)
Druid - midrange
Rogue - miracle, oil
Warlock - reno, zoo, maly, handlock
Priest - control
mage - freeze, tempo

That's less decks than before WotOG. There's a few that are nearly good enough to make that list, but not quite. Stuff like tempo mage and midrange hunter is playable but just not strong enough to be considered a meaningful part of the competitive meta. I don't include these for the same reason I wouldn't include such decks as dragon warrior or mech mage in the pre-WotOG meta even though these decks were okay.

Now, if we look at what decks were lost and gained in WotOG, either from key cards rotating out or from the deck becoming too weak to be competitively relevant anymore, it looks a bit grim.

Lost:
Murloc paladin
Secret paladin
Midrange paladin
Midrange (or camel) hunter
Midrange druid
Oil rogue
Tempo mage
Handlock
Malylock

Notable mention: Standard lost nearly all mechs and demons, as well as the entire suite of neutral anti-aggro cards, while adding no new tribes.

Gained:
N'Zoth paladin (and priest, if we regard it as a competitive deck)
Midrange shaman
...that's it.

Some people will insist that C'Thun decks are competitive, or that midrange druid is still good, or whatever. These players are typically rank 12 and don't understand the meaning of the meta. For reference, here's the sum total of the decks brought to the Dreamhack round of 16 by more than just a single player (notable despite exclusion is the winner bringing the only N'Zoth priest of the round of 16):

10 Miracle rogue
7 Zoolock
7 Aggro shaman
6 N'Zoth paladin
6 Control warrior
5 Tempo warrior
5 Midrange shaman
5 Renolock
5 Freeze mage
2 Control priest
2 Patron warrior

There was also a single C'Thun warrior as well as a midrange druid, but they were in the bottom of the top 16 and were considered unsuccesful decks, accomplishing very little. One or two of the Renolocks also splashed C'Thun, in fairness, but this has generally been deemed an unsuccesful tech that makes the deck a bit weaker and is not likely to be seen again in future tournaments.

The meta has changed quite a bit due to Naxx and GvG rotating out, but now that the dust has settled and it's becoming clear which decks remain standing, it doesn't look too impressive. WotOG is shaping up to be every bit the failure that TGT was, only rescued by the change of format that bruteforces a new meta into place despite the relative weakness of the expansion.

[Raiju]

The HS tournaments seem so minor relative to the size of the audience I don't think it's a real argument in terms of meta, when compared to general legend.

In other words, who gives a shit about dreamhack? Why is a midrange druid unviable at legend, without relying on a single tournament as your evidence?

[Deleted]

Do you actually play in the upper ranges of legend? Because if you do, you'd notice that there are almost no midrange druids. If you wish to ignore the most recent major tournament because it conflicts with your opinion, you're welcome to do so, but that hardly lends credibility to your opinion. Quite the contrary. If anything, a tournament gives a very concise and trustworthy picture of the meta because we have a list of decks taken from the exact same time and piloted exclusively by top competitive players doing their best. By contrast, someone could hop on Twitch in the afternoon and see Savjz play Yogg & Load hunter, but this is hardly indicative of anything. Dreamhack's round of 16 is precisely the thing that illustrates the competitive meta. That is the competitive meta, by definition.

[Yemkela]

That list looks highly subjective. Renolock and Handlock are basically the same thing these days, Handlock lost viability because of the Molten Giant nerf, not because of the switch to standard. Tempo mage only lost Mad Scientist. Midrange hunters just need to be refined IMO, there's a strong deck there. And no one is mourning the loss of combo druid.

I assume no one brought C'Thun decks to the tournament because it's easy to tech against, also you were basically forced to bring shaman so it could get banned.

That said, if you think the meta is stale, try wild. Wild is bonkers right now and it's only going to get crazier over time.

[Raiju]

No, a tournament is a completely different format to a ladder. It's not comparable at all and isn't RELEVANT at all. A lower average winrate deck may be better for tournaments because of what you expect to face in each persons deck lineup (are we still doing that class veto thing too?)

As for where I play? No, I'm casual. I usually get to rank 5 and call it a month if I even play that month. That being said, there's plenty of midrange druids going around high legends that I've seen. Sure, not as common as aggro shaman/warlock - but nothing is when your deck is that fast.

[Deleted]

I'm sure you know better than all the competitive players.

[Deleted]

How is any of that diversity? Every C'thun plays the same, same goes for N'zoth, and every body old god deck... except... I just remembered; aside from Yogg-for-laughs, you don't really see other old god decks, and it is made worse by everyone and their mothers getting a free C'thun. Thanks to that, even Wild is infested with C'thun decks.

I don't know about you but I see very few control hunters, unless you count N'zoth hunters into that category, and both hunters and paladins pale by comparison to the amount of shamans and zoo are crawling over the ladder. To add insult to injury, zoo has been around since the dawn of time. It just happened to get a boost, 'cause apparently we all needed more zoo in our lives.

So really it's just a couple of molds copied endlessly, over and over again.

That's true.
I've seen a good variety of decks, but depending on region, rank etc your milage may vary.
That, and I think it's honestly difficult create a truly "balanced" game as complicated as Hearthstone. A class will always come out on top.
Aye, it's kinda disappointing it has to be zoo/agro shammy a lot of the time.