Reason for persistence of content droughts in WoW?

[Pieterman]

Of course it existed. Content that one will never realistically reach is content that might as well not exist at all.

For most players, PvE in BC was one big content drought from almost the start.

Uhm...what? So because there's bosses that you won't kill, all the bosses before that may aswell not exist? Is that what you mean? With every boss you killed, the next one became realistic. That's the entire point of progressive raiding.

[Relapses]

The argument you are making is akin to arguing that 1960s US cars are better than current US cars, because car ownership was growing then and isn't growing now.

Yeah, well cars from the 1960s had bigger cupholders on average and that's the #1 reason I've never owned a car newer than model year 1971. #hipster #Legacy #Blizzardsux

[Osmeric]

Uhm...what? So because there's bosses that you won't kill, all the bosses before that may aswell not exist? Is that what you mean?

No, that's not what I mean.

With every boss you killed, the next one became realistic. That's the entire point of progressive raiding.

Understand that in tBC progressive raiding was a very minority activity. Most players who raided stopped at Karazhan, and most players didn't raid at all. Without raiding, the PvE content drought starts almost immediately. This is why Blizzard so wants everyone to be raiding, and not get blocked in their raiding.

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Yeah, well cars from the 1960s had bigger cupholders on average and that's the #1 reason I've never owned a car newer than model year 1971. #hipster #Legacy #Blizzardsux

I don't believe 60s cars had cupholders.

[Relapses]

I don't believe 60s cars had cupholders.

Foiled again!

[Armourboy]

I seriously doubt it is any one thing I tend to go with mismanagement. I think in WoD's case though the expansion was doing so poorly that they just canned it and went to work on Legion.

Frankly I think it comes down to the devs who were working on WoW wanted to do something else so they came up with other projects to work on. They brought in new hires to fill the void but it has taken them a bit to get up to speed and has created some issues.

[Osmeric]

Foiled again!

They began being added in the 1980s, when Chrysler invented the minivan.

http://www.bonappetit.com/trends/art...car-cup-holder

The point about the McDonalds coffee lawsuit is interesting -- cupholders as lawsuit protection.

[Pieterman]

Understand that in tBC progressive raiding was a very minority activity. Most players who raided stopped at Karazhan, and most players didn't raid at all. Without raiding, the PvE content drought starts almost immediately. This is why Blizzard so wants everyone to be raiding, and not get blocked in their raiding.

What do you mean without raiding there's a PvE content drought? Raiding is PvE content. Do you want more easy raids / 5 mans? That's reasonable I guess. I think making a good progressive ladder for people to climb is ultimately better than creating a bunch of easymode raids/dungeons to gear up the masses so they can do the next easymode raids/dungeons. You can't keep up with that kind of consumption rate as a dev.

[Osmeric]

What do you mean without raiding there's a PvE content drought? Raiding is PvE content. Do you want more easy raids / 5 mans? That's reasonable I guess. I think making a good progressive ladder for people to climb is better than creating a bunch of easy stuff to gear up the masses. I always hoped for them to be more volatile with their raid difficulty. ZA's a good example. It was released after BT but wasn't tuned for people that were done with BT. Making 4 difficulties is kind of a lazy solution to this.

Sorry, what I wrote was perfectly clear. I'm not going to try to remotely debug your failed attempt at understanding it.

[Pieterman]

Sorry, what I wrote was perfectly clear. I'm not going to try to remotely debug your failed attempt at understanding it.

Kay so you're gonna spew nonsense and not explain it? Yup, MMO champ at it's finest People don't want to raid yet suffer from PvE drought. How did I not understand that

[jbombard]

That seems like a risky way to make money. Big chance to alienate customers also for other Blizzard product. Already this forum seems full of "They are greedy, don't buy, etc" posters. A person more casually attached to WoW would just go, pick up a new game (possibly an MMO with frequent updates) and never look back.

But what do I know....

I would have thought that at first too. But after Blizzard had done it repeatedly and they are still managing to do OK, I think they have gotten arrogant and they feel like whatever they do people will still pay out for the game... basically because it is pretty much true, or at least has been up until now. For a lot of players I think WoW has become more of a religion than a game, faith and belief in the face of contradicting evidence. I play WoW and other games, that said I am more likely to give my money to developers who actually work for it. WoW has it's good points and it's bad points, some people are just unwilling to admit the bad points and anybody who speaks of WoW negatively is a heretic to them.

[melodramocracy]

Sorry, what I wrote was perfectly clear. I'm not going to try to remotely debug your failed attempt at understanding it.

It's clear, but rather presumptuous. You seem to think that some majority of gamers here see a sliver of content they can't immediately conquer, say "gee, shucks", and unsubscribe. The fact that raiding is now more accessible than ever before, yet player retention is clearly at an all time low, sort of blows holes through that particular theory.

Raiding isn't, and never was, the crux of the problem. At some point Blizzard will realize this as well, but it might take a few more expansions.

[Deleted]

Raiding isn't, and never was, the crux of the problem. At some point Blizzard will realize this as well, but it might take a few more expansions.

Raiding actually is the problem, if you forget to add other engaging content.

[Daffan]

Of course it existed. Content that one will never realistically reach is content that might as well not exist at all.

For most players, PvE in BC was one big content drought from almost the start.

Point being there was always content to work towards, even if it wasn't raiding. Professions, world content and dungeons were all VALID content for the AVERAGE PLAYER.

Yes there was a problem for casuals going Karazhan 10 > Gruul 25. But if the old linear progression ever came back, we have flexible, CRZ, B.net, premade finder and many other tools now.

The biggest things about old WOW was the carrot on a stick. It kept people playing and progressing. People quit when they have nothing to progress or skip over everything.

Your average player just grinds pvp gear / baleful (inspect anyone in your LFD sometime) then they are done.

[Tennis]

They don't respect us. This is why we all need to unsubcribe.

[Deleted]

They don't respect us. This is why we all need to unsubcribe.

Already done.

[Baconeggcheese]

I'd say the biggest thing is content pacing.

Something I'm happy watcher just acknowledged in regards to the leveling experience. They'll never put out content fast enough with the current pacing. It's impossible to put out content to compete with the current rate of consumption.

[melodramocracy]

Raiding actually is the problem, if you forget to add other engaging content.

Well, no... that other content, or the quality / pacing thereof, is exactly the problem. I mean, Wrath, the general consensus favorite expansion of all time, was not sparse on raid bosses. Nor did LFR exist back then.. so for newcomers to the game, raiding was more or less as inaccessible as it ever had been.

What people dislike admitting to themselves is that progress from level 1 to a competently geared level 80 back then was a slower process than 1-100 is now.

[Donair]

Sunwell was added because WotLK was behind schedule (according to Ghostcrawler).

Would sure be nice if they could still pull that off. The drought during Dragon Soul, SoO, and HFC sure as hell could have used a Sunwell.

Where before they used to be concerned about being behind schedule and providing consistent updates, now we just get a "Lawl, look at these idiots still paying during the drought. Carry on with the next xpac. Easy money gentlemen, easy money.."

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Of course it existed. Content that one will never realistically reach is content that might as well not exist at all.

For most players, PvE in BC was one big content drought from almost the start.

And here we have straight up, unabashed, in your face trolling. A punishable offense on these forums and he gets by with nary a pat on the wrist. Watch as I get one though for calling it out.

[Deleted]

Well, no... that other content, or the quality / pacing thereof, is exactly the problem.

Even if the raid development eats up 90% of the budget?

What people dislike admitting to themselves is that progress from level 1 to a competently geared level 80 back then was a slower process than 1-100 is now.

I agree that leveling does not need to be fast. I love a long journey. Always did. OTOH i am not sure if new players just will stop playing if they lose at early level. Seems that was a problem in the old days, if i quote Greg Street correctly..

[ShiyoKozuki]

And here we have straight up, unabashed, in your face trolling. A punishable offense on these forums and he gets by with nary a pat on the wrist. Watch as I get one though for calling it out.

Actually don't think he's trolling, somehow he actually believes the things he says.